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  1. #601
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
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    I mean, this is a big deal.

    We don't really need a tax hike. Just enforce and/or simplify existing taxation. But people have kind of been saying this for years, at least when it comes to corporate taxes. Close the loopholes, enforce the rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I don't think that's their position? They're pointing out that the IRS is woefully understaffed and underfunded and is barely able to keep up with low income audits that are extremely easy to do, and can't even hope to tackle the more expansive, confusing, and costly investigations and legal cases against wealthy folks.
    It seems like a problem where the solution literally pays for itself. 20% of the top 1% income in the us is 500 billion dollars. Surely they could make ends meet? (edit: so tax on that 500bn would be idk around 200bn?)

  2. #602
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underverse View Post
    It seems like a problem where the solution literally pays for itself. 20% of the top 1% income in the us is 500 billion dollars. Surely they could make ends meet? (edit: so tax on that 500bn would be idk around 200bn?)
    FWIW, the IRS has said in the past they largely don't even bother auditing the wealthy's returns.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/i...audit-the-poor

    The wealthy have A> longer returns with more to pore through, and B> more access to loopholes and lawful tax avoidance, and C> teams of lawyers and accountants to make it a nightmare to go after them. So the IRS just . . . doesn't. It costs too much compared to how much they can claw back in return.

    Which, for the record, is the wrong fucking approach. It would be like if police departments just didn't investigate gang members because "hey, those guys might shoot back​."

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It costs too much compared to how much they can claw back in return.
    Also, finding folks with the experience and knowledge to pursue those more complex audits/investigations/cases is extremely difficult for the IRS between the hugely negative public image and comparative poverty-pay compared to what they can make working for the people the IRS would want them to audit.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    That still doesn't explain how we went from a country where anyone with enough effort could make it, to a nation where the poor get poorer and the rich get richer and there's very low economic mobility.
    I agree that it doesn't explain it - which is normal as there's usually no single explanation for complicated developments, and neither is there a simple fix for it.

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    That still doesn't explain how we went from a country where anyone with enough effort could make it, to a nation where the poor get poorer and the rich get richer and there's very low economic mobility. .
    you lost the "greed for success" . people living on better level become "weaker" and "less ambitious" - they rhater consumate then save invest and achieve something. new generations dont realise that capital is build from hard work and determination for generations - not from spending $$$ on anything you want right now at this very moment.

    dont worry it happens to every single powerfull country . and empire

    US atm could be compared to late roman empire - with "barbarians" at the game . or to late ZSRR - when America was the "cool country" and ZSRR was the "Falling empire"

    the danger for the rest of the world is if your "empire" wont want to desperately keep power they are loosing by starting open war with China - the new raising empire.

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    you lost the "greed for success" . people living on better level become "weaker" and "less ambitious" - they rhater consumate then save invest and achieve something .
    Seems to me your describing yourself. After all had you not been born into a country that already gives you so much, you'd be in poverty were you in the US.

  7. #607
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    you lost the "greed for success" . people living on better level become "weaker" and "less ambitious" - they rhater consumate then save invest and achieve something. new generations dont realise that capital is build from hard work and determination for generations - not from spending $$$ on anything you want right now at this very moment.

    dont worry it happens to every single powerfull country . and empire

    US atm could be compared to late roman empire - with "barbarians" at the game . or to late ZSRR - when America was the "cool country" and ZSRR was the "Falling empire"

    the danger for the rest of the world is if your "empire" wont want to desperately keep power they are loosing by starting open war with China - the new raising empire.
    Ah yes, so every single poor person in the US simultaneously became more lazy and frivolously spend all their money. It couldn't possibly be that the system is being rigged so that the poor get their hard work barely paid for and the wealthy reap the benefits. Nope. Everyone's just gotten lazy and the ones who do work 70 hours a week just spend all of their money on luxury items. Of course. It all makes sense now.



    If it wasn't obvious, that was incredibly heavy sarcasm.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Ah yes, so every single poor person in the US simultaneously became more lazy and frivolously spend all their money. It couldn't possibly be that the system is being rigged so that the poor get their hard work barely paid for and the wealthy reap the benefits. Nope. Everyone's just gotten lazy and the ones who do work 70 hours a week just spend all of their money on luxury items. Of course. It all makes sense now.



    If it wasn't obvious, that was incredibly heavy sarcasm.
    ask yourself what kind of work it is that pays so low. puting stuff on shelves of shop ? being cashier who just accepts credit cards ? someone who fries burgers in mac ?

    you want a good suggestion on jobs that pay good in US ? listen to people like Mike Rowe describing those jobs for years now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Seems to me your describing yourself. After all had you not been born into a country that already gives you so much, you'd be in poverty were you in the US.
    once again since its getting boring - i remind you i live in country that is in theory way poorer then US. and yet people here live on relatively better and safer level then many people in your country from what i read here. the irony because it should be the other way around. sure poor people here cannot afford stuff like newest iphone - but they do have free healthcare and free education
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2021-03-31 at 11:13 AM.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    once again since its getting boring - i remind you i live in country that is in theory way poorer then US.
    You're also a liar. Although perhaps your "theory" is something you tell yourself...because you know I'm right in that you'd be dead were you born in poverty here. You try to convince yourself that your shitty ethic wouldn't probably be met with an early grave.

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    I mean they subsidize space X sure but not tesla.
    lol kinda possibly getting another subsidy from taxpayers



    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/us-e...ture-plan.html

    President Joe Biden is prioritizing a national EV charging network under his $2 trillion infrastructure bill, promising to have at least 500,000 of the devices installed across the U.S. by 2030.

    The Biden administration is rolling out Wednesday a $174 billion plan to spur the development and adoption of electric vehicles that includes money to retool factories and boost domestic supply of materials, tax incentives for EV buyers, and grant and incentive programs for charging infrastructure.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  11. #611
    Immortal Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    I mean they subsidize space X sure but not tesla.

    Sorry Elon Tusk, but Tesla selling $1.7 billion in government given carbon emission credits ... is just a subsidy with extra steps.

  12. #612
    Brewmaster Sorensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    lol kinda possibly getting another subsidy from taxpayers



    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/us-e...ture-plan.html

    President Joe Biden is prioritizing a national EV charging network under his $2 trillion infrastructure bill, promising to have at least 500,000 of the devices installed across the U.S. by 2030.

    The Biden administration is rolling out Wednesday a $174 billion plan to spur the development and adoption of electric vehicles that includes money to retool factories and boost domestic supply of materials, tax incentives for EV buyers, and grant and incentive programs for charging infrastructure.
    Link isn't working for me, but good, everyone should be driving electric by 2020.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Sorry Elon Tusk, but Tesla selling $1.7 billion in government given carbon emission credits ... is just a subsidy with extra steps.
    That's other companies subsidizing Tesla not the government.
    Driving on Sunshine.

    PM for Tesla referral code.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    Link isn't working for me, but good, everyone should be driving electric by 2020.
    Not without a time machine and better battery technology than we have, they won't be.

  14. #614
    Brewmaster Sorensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Not without a time machine and better battery technology than we have, they won't be.
    Battery tech is great as is and it's only getting better.
    Driving on Sunshine.

    PM for Tesla referral code.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    Battery tech is great as is and it's only getting better.
    True! But if you want "everyone" to drive an electric car, batteries need to be able to provide considerably more range than they already have. Someday we'll get to the point where you can drive several hundred miles in a day in an electric car, but we're not there yet.

    And we certainly won't somehow get there by last year. :P

  16. #616
    Brewmaster Sorensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    True! But if you want "everyone" to drive an electric car, batteries need to be able to provide considerably more range than they already have. Someday we'll get to the point where you can drive several hundred miles in a day in an electric car, but we're not there yet.

    And we certainly won't somehow get there by last year. :P
    Done it loads of times we are already there. Price could be better but I'd rather pay more to not pollute in people's faces.
    Driving on Sunshine.

    PM for Tesla referral code.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    That's other companies subsidizing Tesla not the government.
    Semantics. its a subsidy for Tesla.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    True! But if you want "everyone" to drive an electric car, batteries need to be able to provide considerably more range than they already have. Someday we'll get to the point where you can drive several hundred miles in a day in an electric car, but we're not there yet.

    And we certainly won't somehow get there by last year. :P
    umm several hundred?

    When was the last time you looked at electric cars, 2002?

    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    Battery tech is great as is and it's only getting better.
    Actually battery technology is one of the few places where innovation has slowed to a crawl in comparison to everything else. There hasn't been any groundbreaking progress in that area in a very long time.

  19. #619
    Brewmaster Sorensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Actually battery technology is one of the few places where innovation has slowed to a crawl in comparison to everything else. There hasn't been any groundbreaking progress in that area in a very long time.
    I do suppose that slowing is the same a stopping
    Driving on Sunshine.

    PM for Tesla referral code.

  20. #620
    Seeing chargers in some nearby areas from me...

    If this particular model becomes available and I suddenly find myself awash in disposable income, I will consider this;

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