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  1. #621
    Brewmaster Sorensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Seeing chargers in some nearby areas from me...

    If this particular model becomes available and I suddenly find myself awash in disposable income, I will consider this;
    What, you don't want to drive a rhombus?
    Driving on Sunshine.

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  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    What, you don't want to drive a rhombus?
    Gods no! Ugh

  3. #623
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    ask yourself what kind of work it is that pays so low. puting stuff on shelves of shop ? being cashier who just accepts credit cards ? someone who fries burgers in mac ?

    you want a good suggestion on jobs that pay good in US ? listen to people like Mike Rowe describing those jobs for years now.
    And yet menial labor used to be able to pay for people's living expenses. Now people in those jobs can't make ends meet most of the time. Why should I ask myself what kind of jobs those people do? Is there something WRONG with those jobs? Are you implying people doing those jobs shouldn't be paid a living wage? Are you looking down on those people? Are you implying those jobs are easy?

    There's nothing wrong with those jobs. Those people should be paid a living wage. Only privileged assholes who have never had to work a minimum wage job look down on such people. Those jobs are more strenuous, draining, and hard on the body than any desk job that pays more money. Menial labor doesn't require any kind of special skill, but it's extremely hard on the body to work 60-70 hours a week just to make ends meet.

    People aren't lazy, nor are they don't easy jobs. You just look down on them because it's easier than putting aside your insular sheltered privileged views and admitting there's a problem.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Semantics. its a subsidy for Tesla.

    - - - Updated - - -



    umm several hundred?

    When was the last time you looked at electric cars, 2002?

    Even models described as "long range" still top out around 300-350 miles. If you want "everyone" to be driving one (as Sorenson explicitly said), then that needs to at least double.

  5. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Even models described as "long range" still top out around 300-350 miles. If you want "everyone" to be driving one (as Sorenson explicitly said), then that needs to at least double.
    well that is several hundred......
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  6. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    well that is several hundred......
    It's times like these that I'm reminded that people have wildly different personal definitions of the word "several." Some people mean it as "a few" and some people as "a lot."
    Last edited by DarkTZeratul; 2021-03-31 at 10:13 PM.

  7. #627
    Brewmaster Sorensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Even models described as "long range" still top out around 300-350 miles. If you want "everyone" to be driving one (as Sorenson explicitly said), then that needs to at least double.
    In what world do you need that much range?
    Driving on Sunshine.

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  8. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    It's times like these that I'm reminded that people have wildly different personal definitions of the word "several." Some people mean it as "a few" and some people as "a lot."
    more than two but fewer than many!!!!!

    see that clears it up!!!!


    most studies on driving shows that something north of 95% of all trips are under 30 miles.
    trips over 70 miles in length accounting for just 1%

    once you start getting into the 250-300 mile range i can only imagine....
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    In what world do you need that much range?
    I think the goal would be to have equivalent or better mileage than the best cars not that I agree with that but some people do.

  10. #630
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    In what world do you need that much range?
    You said "everyone." Which means you need to account for all situations, not just "driving to work." And yeah, sometimes people take long ass drives. Some people even do so regularly. From San Francisco to Seattle, for example, is 820 miles. I certainly don't do that drive with anything even approaching regularity, but I have done it. That would flat-out not be possible in an electric car, because while a gas-powered car can also only go about 300-350 miles on a single tank it takes less than 10 minutes to fill it back up again.

    Hell, lots of people regularly travel between San Francisco and Los Angeles. That's ~375 miles, which again would not be possible with anything other than the longest range electric car on the market.

    Widespread adoption of electric vehicles cannot happen until you solve the long range issue. Whether that's by utilizing multiple batteries or increasing their capacity or innovating faster ways to recharge (or, in theory, swap) them, my point is that it needs to happen and we're not there yet.
    Last edited by DarkTZeratul; 2021-04-01 at 12:09 AM.

  11. #631
    Brewmaster Sorensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    You said "everyone." Which means you need to account for all situations, not just "driving to work." And yeah, sometimes people take long ass drives. Some people even do so regularly. From San Francisco to Seattle, for example, is 820 miles. I certainly don't do that drive with anything even approaching regularity, but I have done it. That would flat-out not be possible in an electric car, because while a gas-powered car can also only go about 300-350 miles on a single tank it takes less than 10 minutes to fill it back up again.

    Hell, lots of people regularly travel between San Francisco and Los Angeles. That's ~375 miles, which again would not be possible with anything other than the longest range electric car on the market.

    Widespread adoption of electric vehicles cannot happen until you solve the long range issue. Whether that's by utilizing multiple batteries or increasing their capacity or innovating faster ways to recharge (or, in theory, swap) them, my point is that it needs to happen and we're not there yet.
    You act like charging isn't a thing. On these trips do you like piss in a bottle?
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  12. #632
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    You act like charging isn't a thing. On these trips do you like piss in a bottle?
    Aren't recharges like...6 hours at the fastest on modern Tesla's? Because that's a different story than say, a 5-10 minute pit-stop to empty your bladder and grab some snacks while filling up the tank. Like, even if you stopped halfway for some Anderson's Split Pea Soup there wouldn't be enough to get you half a charge if you're lucky.

  13. #633
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    You said "everyone." Which means you need to account for all situations, not just "driving to work." And yeah, sometimes people take long ass drives. Some people even do so regularly. From San Francisco to Seattle, for example, is 820 miles.
    In what world are people making that run in IC cars without stopping to fuel up?

    A quick check shows me the Honda Accord (as a comparison point) in 2020 was getting ~35mpg on highways, and a max range of a little over 500 miles. The long range Tesla Model S version has a range of about 400 miles. Pretty darned close. The main divider, as it's been for quite a while, is still mostly just price and convenient access to charging.

    I certainly don't do that drive with anything even approaching regularity, but I have done it. That would flat-out not be possible in an electric car, because while a gas-powered car can also only go about 300-350 miles on a single tank it takes less than 10 minutes to fill it back up again.
    Two things;

    The first, most people don't make those kinds of trips very often, if ever. And in many cases, if they do, they're flying or taking a train, or that's at least a valid alternative.

    The second, charging highways are a thing. It's a matter of infrastructure investment; https://www.theguardian.com/environm...pens-in-sweden

    Once that investment's made, the electric vehicles are far superior, since you don't even have to stop and fuel up, and you arrive still charged. Yes, we're in a position where infrastructure investment is required, but infrastructure investment is the only reason everything currently favors IC engine vehicles in the first place.

    Widespread adoption of electric vehicles cannot happen until you solve the long range issue. Whether that's by utilizing multiple batteries or increasing their capacity or innovating faster ways to recharge (or, in theory, swap) them, my point is that it needs to happen and we're not there yet.
    Widespread adoption does make the infrastructural investment worthwhile. Which basically fixes all the issues you're bringing up.

  14. #634
    Brewmaster Sorensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Aren't recharges like...6 hours at the fastest on modern Tesla's? Because that's a different story than say, a 5-10 minute pit-stop to empty your bladder and grab some snacks while filling up the tank. Like, even if you stopped halfway for some Anderson's Split Pea Soup there wouldn't be enough to get you half a charge if you're lucky.
    Many charges for me my car is ready to go in 5-30 min. Most of the time I go pee and my car is ready to go. I have almost 30k miles on my Tesla and they charge fast. They are excellent road trip cars.
    Driving on Sunshine.

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  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    Many charges for me my car is ready to go in 5-30 min. Most of the time I go pee and my car is ready to go. I have almost 30k miles on my Tesla and they charge fast. They are excellent road trip cars.
    If you've got a Tesla supercharger station and a car that works with it, maybe. But until those become pretty ubiquitous, it's not exactly the most practical thing to take a road trip. Charging standardization is going to be necessary, especially at the supercharge speeds.

  16. #636
    Brewmaster Sorensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    If you've got a Tesla supercharger station and a car that works with it, maybe. But until those become pretty ubiquitous, it's not exactly the most practical thing to take a road trip. Charging standardization is going to be necessary, especially at the supercharge speeds.
    Exactly why there's only 1 car company that will move into the future.
    Driving on Sunshine.

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  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    You said "everyone." Which means you need to account for all situations, not just "driving to work." And yeah, sometimes people take long ass drives. Some people even do so regularly. From San Francisco to Seattle, for example, is 820 miles. I certainly don't do that drive with anything even approaching regularity, but I have done it. That would flat-out not be possible in an electric car, because while a gas-powered car can also only go about 300-350 miles on a single tank it takes less than 10 minutes to fill it back up again.

    Hell, lots of people regularly travel between San Francisco and Los Angeles. That's ~375 miles, which again would not be possible with anything other than the longest range electric car on the market.

    Widespread adoption of electric vehicles cannot happen until you solve the long range issue. Whether that's by utilizing multiple batteries or increasing their capacity or innovating faster ways to recharge (or, in theory, swap) them, my point is that it needs to happen and we're not there yet.
    So you're saying without the ability to cover the last 2% of drivers, the other 98% won't buy an electric car?

    Widespread adoption will be stopped because of the 2% that want to drive 400+ miles?

    i think price of vehicle and cost of charger is what is preventing widespread adoption.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorensen View Post
    Exactly why there's only 1 car company that will move into the future.
    lol they are not the only car with a supercharger right?
    My bet is on

    VOLTswaggon.

    lol april fools joke gone horribly wrong anyone?

    i'd also put a side bet on GM because of all their investments in companies leading the charge (oh the puns today)
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    And yet menial labor used to be able to pay for people's living expenses. Now people in those jobs can't make ends meet most of the time. Why should I ask myself what kind of jobs those people do? Is there something WRONG with those jobs? Are you implying people doing those jobs shouldn't be paid a living wage? Are you looking down on those people? Are you implying those jobs are easy?

    There's nothing wrong with those jobs. Those people should be paid a living wage. Only privileged assholes who have never had to work a minimum wage job look down on such people. Those jobs are more strenuous, draining, and hard on the body than any desk job that pays more money. Menial labor doesn't require any kind of special skill, but it's extremely hard on the body to work 60-70 hours a week just to make ends meet.

    People aren't lazy, nor are they don't easy jobs. You just look down on them because it's easier than putting aside your insular sheltered privileged views and admitting there's a problem.
    a lot of those jobs historicaly were done by young people who worked part time while being in school/uni . the problem appeared when those jobs were taken over by grown up adoults who lacked any other valuable skills to find work elsewhere.

    this problem will solve itself soon when automatization will just take over.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    So you're saying without the ability to cover the last 2% of drivers, the other 98% won't buy an electric car?

    Widespread adoption will be stopped because of the 2% that want to drive 400+ miles?

    i think price of vehicle and cost of charger is what is preventing widespread adoption.
    those are not problem at all.

    problems for electric cars is they extremly low range and very long charging time during trips.

    untill those cars will be able to travel 600-700 km on 1 charging and charging will be almost instant people will keep driving car runing on dead disnosaurs .

    electric car is a nice toy if you live in a city and rarely travel outside of it.

  19. #639
    Brewmaster Sorensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    a lot of those jobs historicaly were done by young people who worked part time while being in school/uni . the problem appeared when those jobs were taken over by grown up adoults who lacked any other valuable skills to find work elsewhere.

    this problem will solve itself soon when automatization will just take over.

    - - - Updated - - -



    those are not problem at all.

    problems for electric cars is they extremly low range and very long charging time during trips.

    untill those cars will be able to travel 600-700 km on 1 charging and charging will be almost instant people will keep driving car runing on dead disnosaurs .

    electric car is a nice toy if you live in a city and rarely travel outside of it.
    So you are just disregarding reality where charge times are low and these cars are fantastic for traveling outside of cites because of their low cost and ease of use?
    Driving on Sunshine.

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  20. #640
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    electric car is a nice toy if you live in a city and rarely travel outside of it.
    So, like, 95% of all drivers, then.

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