Do greedy millionaires and billionaires...

[Sorensen]

something like "all" of the current profit comes from environmental credits....

Eleven states require automakers sell a certain percentage of zero-emissions vehicles by 2025. If they can't, the automakers have to buy regulatory credits from another automaker that meets those requirements -- such as Tesla, which exclusively sells electric cars.
It's a lucrative business for Tesla -- bringing in $3.3 billion over the course of the last five years, nearly half of that in 2020 alone. The $1.6 billion in regulatory credits it received last year far outweighed Tesla's net income of $721 million -- meaning Tesla would have otherwise posted a net loss in 2020.


You don't get much more "subsidized" then that.


Of course they could still have a profit without the subsidy, they just need to stop with stock awards, bonuses, buybacks, ect..... should do wonders for the stock

Better than other car manufacturers/oil producers/ users subsidizing their goods (bads) with our health.

[Draco-Onis]

IRS researchers: Top 1 percent avoids taxes on one-fifth of their income

The top 1 percent of households in terms of income fail to report an astonishing 21 percent of their income to the IRS, according to a new paper co-authored by IRS researchers and prominent academics in the National Bureau of Economic Research.

In comparison, the paper found that the bottom half of earners fail to report about 7 percent of their income.

The IRS captures data on most wage income from employers, who report the wages they pay through W-2 forms. Other income, however, earned from freelance work, collecting rent, self-employment and other avenues, must be reported directly.

Of the 21 percent of income unreported from the top tier of earners, 6 percent reportedly comes from avoidance methods that even audits would have trouble finding, such as undeclared foreign accounts and the use of pass-through businesses to hide income.

In comparison to previous estimates, the study finds that unreported income is larger by a factor of 1.1, a figure that rises to 1.3 for the top 1 percent and 1.8 for the top 0.1 percent.

Unreported income will account for some $600 billion in lost government revenues this year, and $7.5 trillion over a decade alone, according to The New York Times.

Though the new analysis focused on a few types of tax avoidance in particular, the researchers said the true figures are even higher.

"We stress that our estimates are likely to be conservative with regard to the overall amount of evasion at the top," they wrote.

Democrats look to impose capital gains tax at death
Democrats wrestle over tax hikes for infrastructure
In recent years, audit rates have declined, particularly for the rich, as IRS funding was scaled back. A Congressional Budget Office report from July found that audit rates dropped 46 percent from 2010 to 2018, and fell 61 percent for millionaires in the same time period.

The latest findings, the National Bureau of Economic Research researchers argue, show that tax evasion bolsters inequality.

One of the paper's co-authors, University of California-Berkeley economist Gabriel Zucman, has made policy waves with his research on inequality before. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) used much of his work as the basis for her wealth tax proposals.

[Sorensen]

IRS researchers: Top 1 percent avoids taxes on one-fifth of their income

If you don't report income they can't tax you on it. Seems like a good deal.

[Muzjhath]

If you don't report income they can't tax you on it. Seems like a good deal.

Seems like tax fraud.

[Sorensen]

Seems like tax fraud.

No tax fraud is government using tax money poorly.

[Endus]

No tax fraud is government using tax money poorly.

Literally not the case.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/tax-fraud.asp

What you were supporting a couple posts up was the literal definition of tax fraud. Hooray for applauding criminal millionaires, I guess.

[Muzjhath]

No tax fraud is government using tax money poorly.

I... I don't even.
Seriously, Tax Fraud is "everyday speech" for someone defrauding the government of the tax they are due to pay.
It has nothing to do with anything else.

[Bodakane]

No tax fraud is government using tax money poorly.

Cool. Stay off the roads. Don't use the courts, law enforcement or fire department for anything. If you went to public school, please remit payment for your schooling. Also, if we are invaded, please offer yourself up to the invading force, so no military resources are spent protecting you.

[Edge-]

No tax fraud is government using tax money poorly.

Are we still pretending at acting like knowing nothing is hip and cool?

[Bodakane]

[Gestopft]

IRS researchers: Top 1 percent avoids taxes on one-fifth of their income

And the insane thing is that the Republicans that defunded the IRS KNOW that the amount they would bring back into the treasury through thorough investigation would more than be worth the extra budget expenditure. They just insist on letting the rich get away with as much as possible.

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No tax fraud is government using tax money poorly.

Your avatar appears to have bumped its head on a rock and evolved into Moroneon.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Something surely happened around 1978; the car production in the US dropped from more than 9 million to less than 6 million in about a year and then entered a slow decline; https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...car-production

Specifically the second oil crisis happened and the US car manufacturers were slow to adapt, whereas lots of other countries had been catching up. Oversimplified scape-goats have been found ever since - the government during Reaganomics, and in this thread the billionaires. And obviously using domestic production (of cars or other stuff) as a metric is a remnant of the mercantalistic(sp?) ideas.

That still doesn't explain how we went from a country where anyone with enough effort could make it, to a nation where the poor get poorer and the rich get richer and there's very low economic mobility. Point is, the system sucks, we need higher wages, trickle down (Raeganomics) is proven to be a scam. Unless you yourself are a millionaire already, you could be making more money if our minimum wage was higher, as it would affect wages up the entire totem pole. Instead you seem to enjoy carrying a torch for the ultra wealthy and settling for less.

And as said, nobody is blaming only the billionaires, it's the entire system that is fucked. The entire system has been designed for the last 40 years to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

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If you don't report income they can't tax you on it. Seems like a good deal.

Yeah, try reporting your income is 80% of what it actually is. See how far you get with that.

The wealthy can get away with it because if they get caught, the fines are a simple slap on the wrist compared to what kind of money they're saving. If you get caught you'll be out on the street.

[Sorensen]

That still doesn't explain how we went from a country where anyone with enough effort could make it, to a nation where the poor get poorer and the rich get richer and there's very low economic mobility. Point is, the system sucks, we need higher wages, trickle down (Raeganomics) is proven to be a scam. Unless you yourself are a millionaire already, you could be making more money if our minimum wage was higher, as it would affect wages up the entire totem pole. Instead you seem to enjoy carrying a torch for the ultra wealthy and settling for less.

And as said, nobody is blaming only the billionaires, it's the entire system that is fucked. The entire system has been designed for the last 40 years to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

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Yeah, try reporting your income is 80% of what it actually is. See how far you get with that.

The wealthy can get away with it because if they get caught, the fines are a simple slap on the wrist compared to what kind of money they're saving. If you get caught you'll be out on the street.

Well obviously you have to show that you have things that are officially reported, like W-2, 1099 etc. But other income you may be able to flex

[DarkTZeratul]

But other income you may be able to flex

And if you get caught "flexing" your other income the IRS nails you for tax fraud because no, you can't.

[Sorensen]

And if you get caught "flexing" your other income the IRS nails you for tax fraud because no, you can't.

They can barely process normal returns with what is going exactly why they don't catch people doing this kind of thing. IRS needs more resources to do their job better.

[DarkTZeratul]

They can barely process normal returns with what is going exactly why they don't catch people doing this kind of thing. IRS needs more resources to do their job better.

So you're going with "it's okay to defraud the IRS because they're overworked and probably won't catch you"?

[Edge-]

So you're going with "it's okay to defraud the IRS because they're overworked and probably won't catch you"?

I don't think that's their position? They're pointing out that the IRS is woefully understaffed and underfunded and is barely able to keep up with low income audits that are extremely easy to do, and can't even hope to tackle the more expansive, confusing, and costly investigations and legal cases against wealthy folks.

[Underverse]

IRS researchers: Top 1 percent avoids taxes on one-fifth of their income

I mean, this is a big deal.

We don't really need a tax hike. Just enforce and/or simplify existing taxation. But people have kind of been saying this for years, at least when it comes to corporate taxes. Close the loopholes, enforce the rules.

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I don't think that's their position? They're pointing out that the IRS is woefully understaffed and underfunded and is barely able to keep up with low income audits that are extremely easy to do, and can't even hope to tackle the more expansive, confusing, and costly investigations and legal cases against wealthy folks.

It seems like a problem where the solution literally pays for itself. 20% of the top 1% income in the us is 500 billion dollars. Surely they could make ends meet? (edit: so tax on that 500bn would be idk around 200bn?)

[Endus]

It seems like a problem where the solution literally pays for itself. 20% of the top 1% income in the us is 500 billion dollars. Surely they could make ends meet? (edit: so tax on that 500bn would be idk around 200bn?)

FWIW, the IRS has said in the past they largely don't even bother auditing the wealthy's returns.

https://www.propublica.org/article/i...audit-the-poor

The wealthy have A> longer returns with more to pore through, and B> more access to loopholes and lawful tax avoidance, and C> teams of lawyers and accountants to make it a nightmare to go after them. So the IRS just . . . doesn't. It costs too much compared to how much they can claw back in return.

Which, for the record, is the wrong fucking approach. It would be like if police departments just didn't investigate gang members because "hey, those guys might shoot back​."

[Edge-]

It costs too much compared to how much they can claw back in return.

Also, finding folks with the experience and knowledge to pursue those more complex audits/investigations/cases is extremely difficult for the IRS between the hugely negative public image and comparative poverty-pay compared to what they can make working for the people the IRS would want them to audit.