did the valor honeymoon die already?

[kranur]

Blame it on the big range of key levels and the milestones to upgrade at levels 5, 10 and 15. Makes sense that many people will just aim for these magic numbers for a while and not bother with the other levels.

Also, why should people bother to re-farm now when we're halfway into into the patch.

[FiveDkp]

unlike first week with high cap, now if you do callings 4 dungeons are enough to get valor cap and most people do the 4 on high keys for vault anyway so why bother with +2/3 keys

Farming Valor points to upgrade a trinket or item they got.

[FelPlague]

Think from the other perpsective - people do the 2,3,4s to get the valor to upgrade said piece - that's why 2/3/4s arent a waste of time.

- - - Updated - - -



Keeps your mind in shape for raiding and future M+ . Always expands your horizon on optimising routes and pushing further.

well yes but everyone who needed to farm tons of it already did all their low level keys they needed, that time is over, at this point the people who need the upgrades anrt the type to burst all their stuff at once.

[zhorteye]

There never was one.. The valor system we see is not the valor system we wanted.. Upgrading gear is not the answer.. We wanted a "Badge system" to be able to obtain gear, not upgrade it.

[Lolites]

Farming Valor points to upgrade a trinket or item they got.

try reading once again what i wrote - people doing 4 or more M+ a week do not need to farm valor as they cap it on their "vault" M+...

[Azerate]

The idea that high level players will want to farm low level keys en-masse because of the valor upgrade makes sense at first, but if you really think about it and consider how the system works, it turns out it's not so good.

First of all, in order for valor to actually matter, you need to get the actual items first. And the higher the original ilvl of the item the less valor you need. So people will naturally attempt to get these items from +14 and 15s instead of low level dungeons. Secondly, you still have the great vault, which is the core of m+ gearing because it gives you 226 options weekly, and you need 10 dungeons done at the highest tier for 3 226 options. So you will still want to prioritize that over anything else.

In other words, the only time when it actually makes sense to spam 2s and 3s is when you already have the item you want to upgrade from a +14/15 AND when you are already done with your 10 weekly dungeons. An average player will probably not do more than 10 dungeons per week at all, let alone grind low level keys ad infinitum after doing the weekly cap of 10s.

[ellieg]

The idea that high level players will want to farm low level keys en-masse because of the valor upgrade makes sense at first, but if you really think about it and consider how the system works, it turns out it's not so good.

First of all, in order for valor to actually matter, you need to get the actual items first. And the higher the original ilvl of the item the less valor you need. So people will naturally attempt to get these items from +14 and 15s instead of low level dungeons. Secondly, you still have the great vault, which is the core of m+ gearing because it gives you 226 options weekly, and you need 10 dungeons done at the highest tier for 3 226 options. So you will still want to prioritize that over anything else.

In other words, the only time when it actually makes sense to spam 2s and 3s is when you already have the item you want to upgrade from a +14/15 AND when you are already done with your 10 weekly dungeons. An average player will probably not do more than 10 dungeons per week at all, let alone grind low level keys ad infinitum after doing the weekly cap of 10s.

This is my thinking too. And once caught up to cap, or next season, doing 4-5 m+ plus callings will cap u for the week. And those 4-5 should be done at your highest lvl for the vault anyway.

I think the main ones farming low keys only want 1 or 2 slots total. So they don't care it costs more VP because after those slots they don't need vp anyway. Or, the ppl that jist didn't think it thru. They probably need multiple slots but got 1 item and just want to quickly farm up the vp to upgrade it. But they could kill 2 birds with 1 stone by farming other 15s for other slots while still acquiring vp. You got a 40% chance to receive loot on any finished key 15 and below. Some loot tables have ~10 items in it. So overall chance of getting loot u are farming for is 4%. Youll cap vp way before getting multiple pieces you're targeting

[Shaetha]

Get a friend that's willing to tank. All that's happening is saturation. Saturation means you wait longer for tanks and healers.

Tanks and healers basically get accepted instantly at those levels. If they're getting instant invites it means DPS are going to be waiting. Since tanking M+ means you have to do all the work in a PuG, it's always going to be the least popular role.

[DisposableHero]

This iteration of valor was stillborn. The players wanted a system to address the abysmal drop rates for gear in PVE. The Devs did not, having intentionally nerfed the drops rates of gear across PVE in shadowlands beta. The Devs designed a system to pretend they were addressing the players concerns while specifically not addressing them in any meaningful way. So here we are. I am just doing vault keys like I normally would and accumulating valor passively. If a changeling or a ruby should drop in the 207-210 range, I might be inclined to push my last couple dungeons for KSM and bump them up to 220 with the valor I've accumulated, but otherwise I'm not participating because there is no value to be had in participating.

[Shaetha]

-snip-

All of your ideas ignore the fact the other gearing paths existed since 8.0. People that aren't chasing filler slots are going to be new players and nothing else this late in a patch cycle. Everyone saying valor didn't work is ignoring the fact the problem it fixed will happen every patch, but it was too late to matter for this patch.

In other words, the bog standard doomsaying without actually understanding reality. A mainstay of the internet.

[neocount]

This iteration of valor was stillborn. The players wanted a system to address the abysmal drop rates for gear in PVE. The Devs did not, having intentionally nerfed the drops rates of gear across PVE in shadowlands beta. The Devs designed a system to pretend they were addressing the players concerns while specifically not addressing them in any meaningful way. So here we are. I am just doing vault keys like I normally would and accumulating valor passively. If a changeling or a ruby should drop in the 207-210 range, I might be inclined to push my last couple dungeons for KSM and bump them up to 220 with the valor I've accumulated, but otherwise I'm not participating because there is no value to be had in participating.

This. I have over 2000 valor collecting dust as I wait for a drop I can actually use it on. Also, I'm still two +15s away from getting my gear cap up to 220 where it will actually be useful. I suspect I'll hit the valor cap before I actually get something I can use it on.

[Shaetha]

This iteration of valor was stillborn.

It's only stillborn to people without the ability to realize there might be a patch where people will have to gear again. You know, because not every system needs to only serve raiders.

- - - Updated - - -

This. I have over 2000 valor collecting dust as I wait for a drop I can actually use it on. Also, I'm still two +15s away from getting my gear cap up to 220 where it will actually be useful. I suspect I'll hit the valor cap before I actually get something I can use it on.

Valor is a catchup. The achievements are account-wide. If the cap needs to be 220 to be useful, you're already past the point where valor is really useful.

[Semihagez]

It's never a way for casuals to get better gears due to achievement requirement. It's only for hardcore to fill in a few missing pieces.
Unless you are in a well organized premade group, you are not going to get +10 run within timer withou sub ilvl 213 gear.

[ellieg]

All of your ideas ignore the fact the other gearing paths existed since 8.0. People that aren't chasing filler slots are going to be new players and nothing else this late in a patch cycle. Everyone saying valor didn't work is ignoring the fact the problem it fixed will happen every patch, but it was too late to matter for this patch.

In other words, the bog standard doomsaying without actually understanding reality. A mainstay of the internet.

I dont understand you. I wasn't saying anything negative about valor. Was just trying to explain why doing low keys for valor farming is a bad idea for most ppl compared to doing +15s and up

[DisposableHero]

It's only stillborn to people without the ability to realize there might be a patch where people will have to gear again. You know, because not every system needs to only serve raiders.

Valor is actually only moderately useful at this point in the season because it has a larger cap. At the start of a season your odds of wasting your valor on pieces you will quickly replace is much higher, you cannot upgrade them to a reasonable ilvl because you won't have the achievements necessary to do so until you basically pass the gear level where they are useful to you, and even if you luck out and get a good piece that is upgradable, will be hard to replace, and you have the achievements, you are getting like 3 ilvls on one piece of gear per with the ridiculously slow cap. It is such a stingy f***ing system that it will almost never be useful to anyone gearing up, and its best use case is folks at mid/end of season right now, upgrading BiS trinkets to finish off a set for the season.

[thunderdragon2]

Valor is actually only moderately useful at this point in the season because it has a larger cap. At the start of a season your odds of wasting your valor on pieces you will quickly replace is much higher, you cannot upgrade them to a reasonable ilvl because you won't have the achievements necessary to do so until you basically pass the gear level where they are useful to you, and even if you luck out and get a good piece that is upgradable, will be hard to replace, and you have the achievements, you are getting like 3 ilvls on one piece of gear per with the ridiculously slow cap. It is such a stingy f***ing system that it will almost never be useful to anyone gearing up, and its best use case is folks at mid/end of season right now, upgrading BiS trinkets to finish off a set for the season.

sadly this is true it is indeed a silly system, which no1 wanted in the iteration it turned out as....

[intenz]

I don't understand any of it. Afaik the ilevel cap is 220 right? So I have to farm M+ to upgrade gear that isn't as good as what any semi-casual already had? Why on earth isn't the cap 226? Makes no sense. Aside from a couple of trinkets there's no 220 M+ item I even want.

[ellieg]

I don't understand any of it. Afaik the ilevel cap is 220 right? So I have to farm M+ to upgrade gear that isn't as good as what any semi-casual already had? Why on earth isn't the cap 226? Makes no sense. Aside from a couple of trinkets there's no 220 M+ item I even want.

If you have every single slot above 220 then this system isn't for you. This system is designed to help players who only do m+ but have been unlucky with the vault in certain slots. The player that does m+ and mythic raids will be better geared, as they should be. But for players that only m+, it's likely that they have multiple pieces "stuck" at 207-210. At this point in the season, there's enough valor to get 2-4 of those slots up to 220. Not perfect gear by any means, but a lot better. They don't want to replace mythic raid drops or great vault, but lessen the impact of bad luck.

[thunderdragon2]

i really wish they made the valor cap 226 tho i guess they wanted to keep mythic raiding revelent

[Qnubi]

It feels like with every iteration to the loot system we go further and further away from loot just being loot. What is so painful to these devs to let bosses drop the best loot? Why do I need to upgrade it, or wait for a weekly chest where I get the best loot from. What happened to: Kill epic monster, get epic loot? Mindbogglingly artificial loot enhancement systems for no good reason. Explain to me why we need weekly chests and upgrade systems? If loot is too sparse, then increase the GOD DAMN loot drop chance so people do not NEED these systems in the first place. The most obvious way to defeat loot issues, is to look at the drop chance and not build additional systems around it. Fine tune the root problem, not band-aid around it... I know many people believe BFA was worse loot wise, but we are at a point where the best loot is NOT EVEN A DROP ANYMORE. It comes from currencies and weekly loot boxes, WAKE UP!