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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Tumile View Post
    The fact that you're a new player who has surounded himself by a bunch of players who arent very experienced in the game, does infact not make you an expert on the subject, it actually does the opposite. if you dont want to call it a "Wall" then don't, but other people will, and now you know why. Also some people will have no fucking clue what you are on about if you call it Guardian of ancient kings or w/e. the term Big Defensive is also not used by better players because it does not specify what type of defensive that is. Argent defender was a Huuuuge Defensive, but it wasnt a major damage reduction. and should be used in different scenarios. Bark skin was a Guardian druid's (or feral druid I guess) biggest defensive for a long time, it didnt make it a big deffensive cooldown though. Iron bark is an external 20% Dmg reduction. Pain sup is also an external, but twice as strong, putting them in the same catagory would make no very little sense. Guardian Angel is also an External, and gives no Damage reduction.

    the terms he used are perfectly normal terms to be used by all sorts of players, from new players, to Vanilla veterans, from casuals, to world first raiders. you are the outlier.
    IDK mate, I don't know what you are on about when you say "not very experienced players"
    I have been around since TBC.
    I am raid leading and main tanking. I always call out spells by names or shorts "PI, PSUp, SLT, Tranq and so on" and I expect healers to know what I mean when I say I will use Ancient Kings on first taunt and want Psup on second taunt. again, I only spells I know which transcends classes is taunt and BL. Kick by some extent but most call it silence/counter/interrupt.

    Regardless of all that. It's not too hard to connect the dots. But OP story is onesided, he has people against him and when called out about paladins having no SW he said that we do, instead of that he wanted to say - major defensive which furthers suspicions about his competence to use the addons.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    IDK mate, I don't know what you are on about when you say "not very experienced players"
    I have been around since TBC.
    I am raid leading and main tanking. I always call out spells by names or shorts "PI, PSUp, SLT, Tranq and so on" and I expect healers to know what I mean when I say I will use Ancient Kings on first taunt and want Psup on second taunt. again, I only spells I know which transcends classes is taunt and BL. Kick by some extent but most call it silence/counter/interrupt.

    Regardless of all that. It's not too hard to connect the dots. But OP story is onesided, he has people against him and when called out about paladins having no SW he said that we do, instead of that he wanted to say - major defensive which furthers suspicions about his competence to use the addons.
    So basically your situation about the definition about the defensive cooldowns of various tanks is the same. Your POV against our, I would agree that most people refer to these CDs as shield-walls or simply defensive CDs from my personal experience. For context, I have raided in more guilds than you have, since you are a raidlead I expect you to join way less guilds to raid and you have the ability to enforce your view, while I have to accept the definition of the the new raidlead. I switched raidleads at least once every new expansion.

    Edit: In fact, your whole argument is completely undermined by the fact that you are the raidlead yourself. How would you even know what "most" people refer to? You can't compare it, you have complete control over your raid and as such no exterior information available. You basically disqualified yourself from this discussion...
    Last edited by Qnubi; 2021-03-24 at 12:40 PM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    So basically your situation about the definition about the defensive cooldowns of various tanks is the same. Your POV against our, I would agree that most people refer to these CDs as shield-walls or simply defensive CDs from my personal experience. For context, I have raided in more guilds than you have, since you are a raidlead I expect you to join way less guilds to raid and you have the ability to enforce your view, while I have to accept the definition of the the new raidlead. I switched raidleads at least once every new expansion.
    That is true, I only raided in total of 4-5 raid groups and me, not hearing people referring to defensives as SW on other tanks than warriors might be a anomaly, but using correct names does not indicate my "inexperience" I would argue the opposite.
    And again, OP when corrected still stood on the shield wall stance rather than correcting himself. I don't have issues in connecting dots when there is one inaccuracy, but when there are 2 or more missing dots I become increasingly skeptical.
    I can see you highlighted "onesided" and "people". By that I meant that he only pointed out what other people did not do. Question is - what he could have done but didn't? It's not disclosed.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    taunt is the only example I can think of. I have never played during such time, when only tanks were warriors. TBH, most people havent.
    Add BL to the list. Tho I use TW quite often too. Never us AH or Hero. Last one disgust me.
    Similar thing also happens with kick. Divine shield is rarely called divine shield, and is called bubble. BL doesn't even get the blood part, it's lust whoever casts it. A lot of damage CDs don't get their name, and are just 2 minutes or 3 minutes. Abomination Limb becomes slappy hands, the removal of debuffs from the group is dispelling normally regardless of the debuff type or who is doing it, removal of buffs from opponents is purging.

    There's a lot of shorthand used, because knowing the exact name doesn't communicate any additional information. All people need to know is "use the button that does x". Once there's enough info the carry that message, further distinction is rare.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    overly semantic? a guy has addon which shows spells which the class does not have OR does not know what the spell is called, so chances are he does not know what it does.
    Yeah, I stand by what I said. While I personally rarely confuse the names of abilities, there are plenty who do. The point, ultimately, is that failing to use your toolkit properly (or at all) is evident in the result, whether being tracked by an addon or a jaunt through the combat log.

    Oneside blaming topics are always fun to dismantle
    You haven't dismantled anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by klogaroth View Post
    There's a lot of shorthand used, because knowing the exact name doesn't communicate any additional information. All people need to know is "use the button that does x". Once there's enough info the carry that message, further distinction is rare.
    This is true. It's been that way for as long as I can remember.
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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by klogaroth View Post
    Similar thing also happens with kick. Divine shield is rarely called divine shield, and is called bubble. BL doesn't even get the blood part, it's lust whoever casts it. A lot of damage CDs don't get their name, and are just 2 minutes or 3 minutes. Abomination Limb becomes slappy hands, the removal of debuffs from the group is dispelling normally regardless of the debuff type or who is doing it, removal of buffs from opponents is purging.

    There's a lot of shorthand used, because knowing the exact name doesn't communicate any additional information. All people need to know is "use the button that does x". Once there's enough info the carry that message, further distinction is rare.
    Friend of mine calls abo hands molester hands

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by klogaroth View Post
    Similar thing also happens with kick. Divine shield is rarely called divine shield, and is called bubble. BL doesn't even get the blood part, it's lust whoever casts it. A lot of damage CDs don't get their name, and are just 2 minutes or 3 minutes. Abomination Limb becomes slappy hands, the removal of debuffs from the group is dispelling normally regardless of the debuff type or who is doing it, removal of buffs from opponents is purging.

    There's a lot of shorthand used, because knowing the exact name doesn't communicate any additional information. All people need to know is "use the button that does x". Once there's enough info the carry that message, further distinction is rare.
    2mins/3mins is more like big deff/small deff.
    Also plenty of CDs communicate more information when you call it by name. Especially healing cds or defensives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    Friend of mine calls abo hands molester hands
    kinda funny

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    Quote Originally Posted by BTC Bill View Post
    Yeah, I stand by what I said. While I personally rarely confuse the names of abilities, there are plenty who do. The point, ultimately, is that failing to use your toolkit properly (or at all) is evident in the result, whether being tracked by an addon or a jaunt through the combat log.
    And I don't argue that. It just that it raises suspicions that OP was tracking a Shield Wall somehow for some reason and that's why it did not go on CD. When corrected he still insisted on shieldwall instead of saying what he actually meant. It raises reasonable doubt.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    Friend of mine calls abo hands molester hands
    Lol. Ill start using that one. Been calling it slappy hands like poster above. Been loving it so far just wish I cld turn it to frost dmg and from green to blue.

  9. #89
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    and yet you trust OP would check and investigate instead of going "im definitely right"
    I've met *far* too many WoW players that lie as easily as they breath.

    I've never seen an addons be that intermittently wrong without being completely broken.

    As the OP pointed out, if the players had used their cooldowns, they most likely would have survived.

    Your logic is actually more faulty than you think. Just because you run into a half-dozen people who claim that water is dry doesn't mean water is actually dry.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Lol all types of big % damage reductions are usually referred to as shieldwall. Same as ppl calling all forms of interrupt "kick". Same as all the taunts.
    this thread is the first time I hear this about "shield wall" tbh.

  11. #91
    The Lightbringer KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    The selective hearing/reading going on in this thread is astounding.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    2mins/3mins is more like big deff/small deff.
    Also plenty of CDs communicate more information when you call it by name. Especially healing cds or defensives.
    Was referring to damage CDs, not damage reduction CDs.

    Depending on who you ask, there are a whole bunch of defensives that get a similar name. PvE will generally call them personals on DPS/healers, and shield wall for tanks. PvP is more likely to call them wall for everyone. If a warlock says they are walling in arena, they mean they're using unending resolve, but the word they actually say is derived from shield wall. In the middle of a game at a time when you are in danger of dying, you can see the difference between "I am using unending resolve" and "walling". It also means your team don't ever need to have looked at warlock spells to know what is happening.

    If a raid leader calls for personals, they're expecting everyone to know what their relevant DR is in that situation. In some cases, this can mean different things depending on the context. It might mean icebound fortitude to a DK, but it also might mean anti-magic shell, depending on the damage type.

  13. #93
    Considering I have used one of those addons (ability team tracker) and seen people using CDs it didn't display as used, it most certainly can be an addon. It could also be the people are all lying, either way, coming on here to complain/tell us your story is pretty telling about YOU.

    Don't like people not using CDs, find a group of people that you can trust too, as a healer you have it probably as easy as anyone to get into groups, btag friend the people you find to be good and play with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    I've met *far* too many WoW players that lie as easily as they breath.

    I've never seen an addons be that intermittently wrong without being completely broken.

    As the OP pointed out, if the players had used their cooldowns, they most likely would have survived.

    Your logic is actually more faulty than you think. Just because you run into a half-dozen people who claim that water is dry doesn't mean water is actually dry.
    and i never said they are right and he is wrong, i just pointed out the guy i replied to think that strangers are less trustworthy than OP, who is another stranger... bcs we dont have data from program, we have just claims of OP...
    if i say my recount shows im doing 300k dps in nathria would you think im trustworthy? just bcs i claim my program says so?
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-03-24 at 01:37 PM.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    this thread is the first time I hear this about "shield wall" tbh.
    Could vary depending on region and server. Reminds me of the equally pointless DM vs VC debate lol.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by klogaroth View Post
    Was referring to damage CDs, not damage reduction CDs.

    Depending on who you ask, there are a whole bunch of defensives that get a similar name. PvE will generally call them personals on DPS/healers, and shield wall for tanks. PvP is more likely to call them wall for everyone. If a warlock says they are walling in arena, they mean they're using unending resolve, but the word they actually say is derived from shield wall. In the middle of a game at a time when you are in danger of dying, you can see the difference between "I am using unending resolve" and "walling". It also means your team don't ever need to have looked at warlock spells to know what is happening.

    If a raid leader calls for personals, they're expecting everyone to know what their relevant DR is in that situation. In some cases, this can mean different things depending on the context. It might mean icebound fortitude to a DK, but it also might mean anti-magic shell, depending on the damage type.
    I call personal CDs personals too, but never miss name it by calling something else. But when I call health pots, I don't mean healthstones. While there is not much of a difference, there is still some difference. And again, all this is irrelevant. It was about OP saying what paladins have shield wall and after being challenged he still insisted on that it is the case instead of clearing up. If someone would call me out for not using pain supp I would respond in "wut?" if they would still argue - not my problem. If they cleared that and would say "I meant sac." that would be an apology for bad reading of the situation if they are cool about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Could vary depending on region and server. Reminds me of the equally pointless DM vs VC debate lol.
    Maybe. I'm from EU. Even here we have people use MM or HM instead of M or HC

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    You can easily verify if the addon is wrong by just looking at the stats of your own usage. I am sure OP would have noticed his stats don't match up and investigate. I trust 0s and 1s more than I trust any stranger human. It's just way more likely these people are lying to save face, for whatever strange reason, it's online PUG you can just say you suck ass and nothing is gonna change anyway.
    I spend all day fixing buggy code. I wouldn't put too much faith in 1's and 0's either if I was you.

  18. #98
    This sounds an awfully lot like trying to blame your lack of healing on someone else. I'm sure every single one of your abilities were on cooldown too... you played perfectly, and they didn't.

  19. #99
    Pandaren Monk Sugarcube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiramon View Post
    This sounds an awfully lot like trying to blame your lack of healing on someone else. I'm sure every single one of your abilities were on cooldown too... you played perfectly, and they didn't.
    lack of healing? lol... i shouldn't even have to get anywhere close to the hps i have to do with some groups...

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarcube View Post
    lack of healing? lol... i shouldn't even have to get anywhere close to the hps i have to do with some groups...
    Well, we need some logs to confirm.

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