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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Algorath View Post
    Thanks for dropping by, feel free to not comment verbal diarrhea next time around <3
    Feel free to create a constructive topic that isn't asking for a negativity "DAE COVENANTS BAD" echo chamber, too.

  2. #62
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post
    Feel free to create a constructive topic that isn't asking for a negativity "DAE COVENANTS BAD" echo chamber, too.
    You could always create those constructive posts yourself. Be the hero of positivity yourself, show us unwashed plebs how it is done... and let's see how your thread fares. Best of luck, my boi/gurl
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  3. #63
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Just because the "tuning" might be close, doesn't mean that the mechanic of the ability actually works well with the content you are trying to do.
    And that's the choice you have to make. Do you want your ability to be great in one type of content and suck at everything else or be decent at everything? Or do you not care and just do what you want? I'm a big fan of the last option.
    Check out my game, Craftsmith, on the Google Play Store!

  4. #64
    People wanted choice to matter.

    If it was just visual, it wouldn't "matter".
    If it was easily swappable, it wouldn't "matter".

    I'm not saying the demands were fair, or even if this was the best way to go about it - there were probably problems with alternatives - but this could have been the feedback they were dealing with at the time the system was conceived. People being all nostalgic for the old game and its "permanence". Whether they were right or not, that could have been the crux of "why" it was done this way.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post
    Feel free to create a constructive topic that isn't asking for a negativity "DAE COVENANTS BAD" echo chamber, too.
    Look at my post mate, I can't be held accountable for other people being more volatile in their responses.

    I am asking a question; What do you think Blizzard's reasoning is? As RP wise, it makes little sense, gameplay wise has some merit, balance wise, well after what, 3-4 attempts at borrowed power being imbalanced, you'd think Blizzard would realize that's not realistic.

    Pre-shadowlands there was all this "Pull the ripcord" talk.. What do you think held Blizzard back from doing so? What in -their- perspective makes these systems a good idea? Profit? Gameplay? Immersion? Because to me, it feels like they missed the mark on these things.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    and another thousands of people loved the idea and still enjoy it, i know its hard pill to swallow admiting that not everybody thinks the same but people should realy learn it, especialy after 16 years of game where there was literaly NOTHING whole playerbase agreed on...

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    that makes absolutely no sense...
    try reading the whole thing next time, I understand that people who like the idea of covenants might get a headache from reading more than 1 sentence, but I believe in you. You can do it! or just keep repeating my own comment back at me, that works too I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnubbles View Post
    And that's the choice you have to make. Do you want your ability to be great in one type of content and suck at everything else or be decent at everything? Or do you not care and just do what you want? I'm a big fan of the last option.
    except a lot of classes dont have that option and the power of the covenant abilities are so strong it isnt a case of being worse at everything else, your character becomes unplayable in some content instead. Imagine trying to raid, even top 200 world as a Kyrian Hunter, lol. Meanwhile if you are a Night fae hunter and you can now raid, you can now no longer play Arena, pog. hard stuck 2100 rating cuz of ur covenant choice.

  7. #67
    Of course. How can you say you really played SL unless you experience each covenant. That was my plan all along I have 4 toons one planned for each. Sadly, now that I have completed 2 covs (pretty close to having everything unlocked for them) I have not a drop of desire to do this again for the last 2 covs.

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    The poster above me - his last point is dead on. I was worried about covs at the start being forced into one and not easily being able to switch when needed. But how it actually played out is much worse, now I can't even play different specs or aspects of the game (pvp) without being gimped in some way.

    Why?
    Last edited by slime; 2021-03-24 at 11:53 AM.

  8. #68
    Just read the forums.

    "We want meaningful choices"
    *gets meaningful choices"

    "Why is everything so impactful"
    *gets cosmetic choices*

    "Why is everything the same"

    It's always the same

  9. #69
    Scarab Lord Oneirophobia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bee76 View Post
    And thats imbalance is the biggest issue. I would love to play my bm as a necrolord. But my damage will be simply rip then. So i HAVE to play nightfae to have at least a little fun and aceptance in m+ and raid. Cuz the Specc balance is worse aswell.
    So my Horde Hunter feels like a nightelf -.-

    And to make thing even wirse, they create 4 new "factions" but hey i cant talk to dudes with the same covenant, if he is an alliance player...

    covenants should have been for cosmetic only, they are a lot of other ways to implement the next unbalanced borrowed power thingy into wow.
    Could have kept the covenants as-is except Oribos is the faction that gives you powers, the other 4 factions just give you cosmetics and story. So, you pick up whatever your spec's power is from Oribos and then choose a cov.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    Could have kept the covenants as-is except Oribos is the faction that gives you powers, the other 4 factions just give you cosmetics and story. So, you pick up whatever your spec's power is from Oribos and then choose a cov.
    What about soulbinds?

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNameForSmurfingExTee View Post
    Just read the forums.

    "We want meaningful choices"
    *gets meaningful choices"

    "Why is everything so impactful"
    *gets cosmetic choices*

    "Why is everything the same"

    It's always the same
    One group that only does lfr and maybe if they are feeling super daring one day a mythic 0 wants drastic changes to gameplay for their brief stint each time they play because they have good memories of playing with friends from a decade ago.

    Another group wants a balanced game they can keep playing at a higher level with active guilds and friends and has seen blizzard mess up every single power system they have ever tried to implement and warned everyone for close to a year over how badly this will go over.

    Now we have most people from the first group gone and the games population being roughly 80% of all the players going the BiS covenant for their spec showing what a farce the system is.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Tumile View Post
    try reading the whole thing next time, I understand that people who like the idea of covenants might get a headache from reading more than 1 sentence, but I believe in you. You can do it! or just keep repeating my own comment back at me, that works too I guess.
    try being less insulting arrogant and patronising next time, i know its hard for people who think they are center of the universe, but i believe you can at least try

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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Lighter View Post
    games population being roughly 80% of all the players going the BiS covenant for their spec showing what a farce the system is.
    i mean, if you want to lie at least dont provide source that proves you wrong... i know it was in another thread, but the data you posted show that 12 specs have less than half in their "best" covenant and another 3-4 are barely above half, while only specs/classes that have both "best" power and aesthetics in the same covenant are above 80%...
    so only farce are people who still claim its proving anything...
    not to mention it doesnt even cover majority of characters (says on the page itself theres 20m chars in queue yet the data cover 7m...)
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-03-24 at 01:12 PM.

  13. #73
    Generally Blizzard's concept of "meaningful choices" has been questionable for years to me.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    try being less insulting arrogant and patronising next time, i know its hard for people who think they are center of the universe, but i believe you can at least try

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    i mean, if you want to lie at least dont provide source that proves you wrong... i know it was in another thread, but the data you posted show that 12 specs have less than half in their "best" covenant and another 3-4 are barely above half, while only specs/classes that have both "best" power and aesthetics in the same covenant are above 80%...
    so only farce are people who still claim its proving anything...
    not to mention it doesnt even cover majority of characters (says on the page itself theres 20m chars in queue yet the data cover 7m...)
    I mean specs that are so broken no one plays them are going to have random covenants as well... That isn't lying

    https://wowranks.io/stats

    Yes it runs through every character but it only posts those active in 28 days. So either im right and people who cared about covenant choice for unique experiences quit right away making the system a waste... or im right any people picked covenants for power.

    I admit its a real kafka trap you walked into.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Lighter View Post
    I mean specs that are so broken no one plays them are going to have random covenants as well... That isn't lying

    https://wowranks.io/stats

    Yes it runs through every character but it only posts those active in 28 days. So either im right and people who cared about covenant choice for unique experiences quit right away making the system a waste... or im right any people picked covenants for power.

    I admit its a real kafka trap you walked into.
    1. sure if you only admit data YOU WANT you might be right, if you accept ALL DATA and not only those suggesting you are right you might find out you have in fact absolutely no proof... but that would require you at least admit option you are wrong instead of trying to force in every piece of data into your theory...

    2. yeah, i checked the page few times, and i was shocked that you can read WHY people picked the covenant from that data, i can only see WHAT they chosen...
    and ignoring inactive characters is outright stupid, but yeah, it gives you advantage so ofc you do it...

    i wonder, could people choose covenant taht is good based on different criteria? like why would paladins pick kyrian or druids night fae right?

    my mate is kyrian on his DH, you know why? bcs he can use mount in ther sanctum, thats it, that was his whole reason... people choose based on thousands different reasons, so no, seeing what they chosen proves nothing, especialy if the data itself dont show massive majority of players in best covenants... btw we already seen the power shifts between covenants on some specs yet we did not see any massive movements of characters... hmmm wonder why...

    i mean if you want to believe people choose mostly via minmaxing you can, but it doesnt make you right, and ffs dont claim data that barely sugest you MIGHT be partialy correct prove you are definitely right...

    no matter, not gonna waste my time trying to persuade someone who already made decision and only tries to find what suggest its right and ignore massive amount of things that suggest its not...
    Last edited by Lolites; 2021-03-24 at 01:32 PM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Algorath View Post
    Look at my post mate, I can't be held accountable for other people being more volatile in their responses.

    I am asking a question; What do you think Blizzard's reasoning is? As RP wise, it makes little sense, gameplay wise has some merit, balance wise, well after what, 3-4 attempts at borrowed power being imbalanced, you'd think Blizzard would realize that's not realistic.

    Pre-shadowlands there was all this "Pull the ripcord" talk.. What do you think held Blizzard back from doing so? What in -their- perspective makes these systems a good idea? Profit? Gameplay? Immersion? Because to me, it feels like they missed the mark on these things.
    So, your purpose of this thread is to ask the playerbase, who has absolutely no way of knowing the reasoning Blizzard has for the things they do (or don't do), and then you're surprised when most of it is generic, banal cynicism? And somehow it's not your fault that this tone of most of the posts in this thread are overwhelmingly negative, because, holy shit, turns out people like to bitch about things they don't understand on forums. Okay, mate.

    Last edited by arr0gance; 2021-03-24 at 04:35 PM.

  17. #77
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNameForSmurfingExTee View Post
    Just read the forums.

    "We want meaningful choices"
    *gets meaningful choices"

    "Why is everything so impactful"
    *gets cosmetic choices*

    "Why is everything the same"

    It's always the same
    Yeah, forum posts are usually written by different people, with different opinions most of the time, who would have thought... Colour me surprised
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  18. #78
    dUhH... mEaNinGfuL cHOicE...

    who cares if players actually have fun right...

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNameForSmurfingExTee View Post
    "We want meaningful choices"
    No one actually said this before Blizzard started mentioning it themselves. And then there suddenly was an army of players (who wont be affected by it anyway) saying that it's the most important thing in the world.

  19. #79
    chooses is my guess.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    dUhH... mEaNinGfuL cHOicE...

    who cares if players actually have fun right...

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    No one actually said this before Blizzard started mentioning it themselves. And then there suddenly was an army of players (who wont be affected by it anyway) saying that it's the most important thing in the world.
    what are you talking about? ... for years, more than 3, it's been like that

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