Thread: [TV] Invincible

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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Satire can be incredibly serious. It’s a satirical look at comics that takes itself seriously. Much like The Boys. It’s designed to subvert the genre, which is key to satire and straight from the creator. I’m not saying it’s primarily satire, because the story goes so much deeper than that, but it clearly has satirical elements. Which makes it at least partially a satire.
    The intentions behind satire are always serious, but the tone should be explicitly humorous. Invincible has a sense of humor but personally I can't classify it as a comedy. The Boys is a different thing, I think it is trying to be a satire but falls a little flat because of the way Ennis puts the Punisher/Billy up on a pedestal.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    The intentions behind satire are always serious, but the tone should be explicitly humorous. Invincible has a sense of humor but personally I can't classify it as a comedy. The Boys is a different thing, I think it is trying to be a satire but falls a little flat because of the way Ennis puts the Punisher/Billy up on a pedestal.
    Yeah, that’s not how satire works. Most people know it for humor, but it’s not inherent.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    The Boys is a different thing, I think it is trying to be a satire but falls a little flat because of the way Ennis puts the Punisher/Billy up on a pedestal.
    Ennis put Billy up on a pedestal? I don’t think so. Ennis is also the guy that stated the Punisher is a serial killer. Neither are the hero.

    Also the Boys isn’t primarily a super hero satire although viewers of the TV show can be forgiven for thinking that.

  4. #124
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    You asked for satire. Every single incarnation in Invincible is basically a caricature of a pre-existing property. What are caricatures? Right, satire.
    so you really had nothing to point to for it being satire then, can't say I'm surprised given that you've done nothing but try and dodge commuting to any actual examples.

    no most of the characters aren't caricatures like Aquarus most are like rex splode who take's powers from gambit but obviously isn't a caricature.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yeah, that’s not how satire works. Most people know it for humor, but it’s not inherent.
    Here's a basic definition of satire:

    the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.
    Here's a more involved explanation of satire: https://www.masterclass.com/articles...ypes-of-satire

    You're saying the tone should not be explicitly humorous? Because it looks like Horatian, Juvenalian, and Menippean satire all involve a humorous tone. The examples they give are explicitly humorous, and all exaggerated well beyond what is done in Invincible. You say humor isn't inherent to satire but that's not what every definition I can find says. I'm not an expert by any means, I had never heard of those types of satire before looking them up today, so maybe you are - if so, could you explain a bit more clearly what satire means to you?

    Like okay, Invincible has obviously copied many elements of the Marvel and DC universes, but I'm not really seeing an overall critique of those two settings. In some cases it copies them very directly, in some cases it uses them as a starting point to tell more complex or real-feeling stories, and in many cases it just does its own thing. I'm not seeing a larger social commentary, or rather I'm not seeing the copies of those other works fit into a larger social commentary. It generally respects the consequences of actions and I think is trying to make some points on that subject, but that's not really a critique of DC or Marvel.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    I watched the first episode, and it was okay, but didn't really draw me in. The ending was so-so, didn't really fit the rest of the episode, but as setup it'd be fine I guess. I also looked up the twist to see if it mattered to me.

    I've found a lot of Amazon's shows to be sort of just "there", I watched the first episode of Carnival Row and Tales From The Loop, neither was bad, but neither drew me in enough to keep watching. They're still in my queue-thing, so if I get bored enough and I'm in the mood, but they just don't do it for me and I don't think Invincible will either.
    Watch Zero Zero Zero - absolute gem from Amazon.
    ~steppin large and laughin easy~

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Ennis put Billy up on a pedestal? I don’t think so. Ennis is also the guy that stated the Punisher is a serial killer. Neither are the hero.

    Also the Boys isn’t primarily a super hero satire although viewers of the TV show can be forgiven for thinking that.
    I haven't really read his opinions of his own work, but yeah, I think the Boys puts Billy up on a pedestal. Even in the end, he's ultimately the one who stops himself. He set up the safeguard in having Hughie around, he even had to hold Hughie's hand through the process of killing him. If Billy wasn't up on that pedestal, he wouldn't be helping Hughie do the right thing. The book is littered with little moments like that and they're too cutesy and ultimately portray Billy as this flawed hero when he's more of a monstrous bastard whose evil was sometimes coincidentally helpful.

  8. #128
    Bloodsail Admiral Xykotic's Avatar
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    I've been lukewarm on this series for most of the season. A friend of mine recommended it insistantly, but I just thought it was a slightly more violent teen titans, and I just can't stand teenage romance drama. Its just so cheesy and frustrating to watch the constant awkwardness. Its made me really dislike Mark a lot. He's probably my least favorite character, and I just kind of tune out whenever Mark is not in costume, or interacting with characters that I do like. I really hope he gets better because right now he's just an unlikable Peter Parker copy.

    Moaning aside, episode 7 was superb imo. Episode 6 didn't work that well for me, so I was basically on the cusp of quitting the show, but episode 7 won me over and I'm excited for the finale this week. Took the show from a 5/10 to a 8/10. Thats how much I liked it.

    Especially loved the Robot clone arc. I've been fascinated by the philosophical implication of cloning, and the notion of uploading ones mind to a computer to outlive our mortality in a digital space. This was a fun take on that.

  9. #129
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    You asked for satire. Every single incarnation in Invincible is basically a caricature of a pre-existing property. What are caricatures? Right, satire.
    synonyms/similar words =/= exact same thing
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
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  10. #130
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    For the first time I'm not at all a fan of the expanded changes. Omniman going out of his way to kill as many people as possible really change's the tone compared to the comic where there just collateral damage.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    For the first time I'm not at all a fan of the expanded changes. Omniman going out of his way to kill as many people as possible really change's the tone compared to the comic where there just collateral damage.
    Interesting, I couldn't be more the opposite. It really drives home his point - and it is a point he makes in the comics. What they did was make it all much more visceral, and underscored how monstrous his views are. After watching the first season I think they've taken one of my favorite comic series and dramatically improved on it. It hits the same notes while pounding them with more emotional force.

  12. #132
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    Interesting, I couldn't be more the opposite. It really drives home his point - and it is a point he makes in the comics. What they did was make it all much more visceral, and underscored how monstrous his views are. After watching the first season I think they've taken one of my favorite comic series and dramatically improved on it. It hits the same notes while pounding them with more emotional force.
    I don't know this turn seems alot more mean spirted then any thing he did in the comics where it more so felt like he just didn't consider the people not that he actively wanted as many dead as possible.

    Its the difference between apathy and spite really and I think spite means makes the later story beats harder to believe.

  13. #133
    That juvenalian satire was over the top in this episode.

  14. #134
    Ew, Omniman fucked his pet...

  15. #135
    Old God Yunru's Avatar
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    Ah yes, just enogh gore for last episode
    Don't sweat the details!!!

  16. #136
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Loved this last episode. The train scene was amazing.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  17. #137
    thought the omni-man reveal was a bit weak/poorly explained. Maybe later seasons will explain his action, motivation and timing a bit better. (Is this a spoiler free zone?^^)


    But otherwise this season was really great.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  18. #138
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by owbu View Post
    thought the omni-man reveal was a bit weak/poorly explained. Maybe later seasons will explain his action, motivation and timing a bit better. (Is this a spoiler free zone?^^)

    But otherwise this season was really great.
    Really?

    His mission as a solo agent of Viltrum is to prep the Earth for subjugation, because it was too costly and slow to move the entire army in for every new planet to be acquired.

    That means he takes a slower approach, feeling things out, laying groundwork for the people to accept Viltrum's rule, by both eliminating any extant guardians who pose any even potential threats to Viltrumites (hence killing the Guardians), AND maintaining a cover and guiding society to a position where it relies on powered saviours to protect them (why he didn't kill the Guardians the moment they showed up with powers).

    His actions and motivation are entirely summed up there.

    Timing isn't explicit, but we can draw conclusions. Why'd he target the Guardians now, and not earlier? Why has he been pushing Mark so damned hard, trying to get him up to speed super quickly? I think it's because Nolan knows exactly when the Viltrumites are showing up to take global control, and it's soon. No more than a few months, and probably closer to weeks if not days. If Mark wasn't able to go toe-to-toe with a millenias-old Viltrumite warrior, he'd be killed off as chaff like anyone else who posed a threat. If he can prove himself "worthy", maybe they'll overlook his halfbreed status. Killing the Guardians is what kicked everything off, and Nolan chose that timing.

    It's probably where Nolan went; to meet with whatever advance force was coming. Maybe to plead for his son's life. Maybe to distance himself so his emotions stop getting the better of him. Gotta wait for S2 to find out, I guess, since I'm probably not reading the comic between now and then.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Really?

    His mission as a solo agent of Viltrum is to prep the Earth for subjugation, because it was too costly and slow to move the entire army in for every new planet to be acquired.

    That means he takes a slower approach, feeling things out, laying groundwork for the people to accept Viltrum's rule, by both eliminating any extant guardians who pose any even potential threats to Viltrumites (hence killing the Guardians), AND maintaining a cover and guiding society to a position where it relies on powered saviours to protect them (why he didn't kill the Guardians the moment they showed up with powers).

    His actions and motivation are entirely summed up there.

    Timing isn't explicit, but we can draw conclusions. Why'd he target the Guardians now, and not earlier? Why has he been pushing Mark so damned hard, trying to get him up to speed super quickly? I think it's because Nolan knows exactly when the Viltrumites are showing up to take global control, and it's soon. No more than a few months, and probably closer to weeks if not days. If Mark wasn't able to go toe-to-toe with a millenias-old Viltrumite warrior, he'd be killed off as chaff like anyone else who posed a threat. If he can prove himself "worthy", maybe they'll overlook his halfbreed status. Killing the Guardians is what kicked everything off, and Nolan chose that timing.

    It's probably where Nolan went; to meet with whatever advance force was coming. Maybe to plead for his son's life. Maybe to distance himself so his emotions stop getting the better of him. Gotta wait for S2 to find out, I guess, since I'm probably not reading the comic between now and then.
    Good news is we have at least 2 more seasons on the way, so anyone who hasn’t read the comics will get another nice chunk of the story. I’d love for them to do the entire run, but we’ll see.

  20. #140
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Good news is we have at least 2 more seasons on the way, so anyone who hasn’t read the comics will get another nice chunk of the story. I’d love for them to do the entire run, but we’ll see.
    Yeah, I'm enjoying the adaptation enough I don't want to spoil it for myself by reading the comic. I'll finish it in this medium before I pick up the other.

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