Thread: [TV] Invincible

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  1. #161
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    I just binged watched the show after having a bunch of YouTube clips pop up for the show.

    I enjoyed most of it, I love the mystery running in the background... I just don't really like Nolan's motivations. I get the "reasoning" people are giving in here, but it's all so ambiguous to interpret it hurts the character from being really fleshed out.

    The whole Viltrium thing doesn't make too much sense, the people Omni is killing are the people they would want to "add to the army". Also why wouldn't Viltrium go to planets and offer to them to join the empire... Like pretty much every empire in the history of the world has ever done. The guy that routinely comes past the planet "by accident" that Omni sent his son to go after... Omni knows who he is, and knows he isn't exactly there for a fight to the death, ...

    Yeah, it's a good show, but for a short run seasonal show, I thought it would have been better thought out.
    every thing is explained later in the series (other then Allen the alien) so it seems incredibly likely they were hoping for more seasons so stuck to the original comic structure.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    every thing is explained later in the series (other then Allen the alien) so it seems incredibly likely they were hoping for more seasons so stuck to the original comic structure.
    That's good, they should have slipped some of it into this season though, because it makes it feel thin without it.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    I just binged watched the show after having a bunch of YouTube clips pop up for the show.

    I enjoyed most of it, I love the mystery running in the background... I just don't really like Nolan's motivations. I get the "reasoning" people are giving in here, but it's all so ambiguous to interpret it hurts the character from being really fleshed out.

    The whole Viltrium thing doesn't make too much sense, the people Omni is killing are the people they would want to "add to the army". Also why wouldn't Viltrium go to planets and offer to them to join the empire... Like pretty much every empire in the history of the world has ever done. The guy that routinely comes past the planet "by accident" that Omni sent his son to go after... Omni knows who he is, and knows he isn't exactly there for a fight to the death, ...

    Yeah, it's a good show, but for a short run seasonal show, I thought it would have been better thought out.
    The people that Omniman killed are the people that would resist Viltrum occupation. Fighting against Alien Invaders is in the job description.

  4. #164
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    That's good, they should have slipped some of it into this season though, because it makes it feel thin without it.
    there's not really a good way to put most of it in without it spoiling alot of the plot. at most I think they could have fit in why they don't just ask people to join as its a rather minor reason being that they just like conflict.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    The people that Omniman killed are the people that would resist Viltrum occupation. Fighting against Alien Invaders is in the job description.
    I don't get how that's not obviously clear.

    The Viltrumites are ethnofascists. They don't want any weird inferior aliens in their armies. Hell, they exterminated the weaker segments of their own population. I think it's pretty clear that's why Nolan's so desperate to get Mark up to speed, and so intolerant of him faffing about. If he's not up to snuff enough to come off as a "true Viltrumite" but instead some weak half-breed, not only will Mark be killed out of hand, but Nolan probably will be too for diluting their gene pool.

    He offed the Guardians because A> they might work things out as Mark gets his powers under control and B> Nolan's mission is to eliminate all potential opposition before the Viltrumite occupying forces arrive. While ensuring the populace is aware of how incapable they are of fighting back; if they couldn't stop one Viltrumite working on his own, what chance do they have against the couple hundred (or whatever) that make up the occupying force stationed there permanently? He hasn't gone on a rampage to kill every other powered individual because, as far as I can tell, he doesn't consider them any kind of threat, even if they work together. The moment he does, he'll throw them into the Sun or something.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    The people that Omniman killed are the people that would resist Viltrum occupation. Fighting against Alien Invaders is in the job description.
    He never asks or brings it up. The issue is he portrays it as being a net positive, jumping the planet forwards hundreds of years technologically. And the word enslavement is thrown around but it's hardly enslavement, especially if the question is broached, "want to join this space empire, be protected, keep most local control (not like earth had it's own space empire nothing would change), the strong of the planet would become part of the Viltrium army (they were still defending themselves anyway so again hardly a change.) The way it's explained is that the Viltrium simply can't take over more planets as it spreads them too thin the old way. So they started to send out people like Omni to recon and subvert the planets to their will... but the end result plays out the same.

    Basically go to 4 planets, ask them to join, 2 join easy, cost no extra work to get, strongest join the space army, and you can either subvert the other 2 or just crush them.

    As Daemos said though, the nuance of all of this is lost in the 1st season and it will be explained later.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    He never asks or brings it up. The issue is he portrays it as being a net positive, jumping the planet forwards hundreds of years technologically. And the word enslavement is thrown around but it's hardly enslavement, especially if the question is broached, "want to join this space empire, be protected, keep most local control (not like earth had it's own space empire nothing would change), the strong of the planet would become part of the Viltrium army (they were still defending themselves anyway so again hardly a change.) The way it's explained is that the Viltrium simply can't take over more planets as it spreads them too thin the old way. So they started to send out people like Omni to recon and subvert the planets to their will... but the end result plays out the same.

    Basically go to 4 planets, ask them to join, 2 join easy, cost no extra work to get, strongest join the space army, and you can either subvert the other 2 or just crush them.

    As Daemos said though, the nuance of all of this is lost in the 1st season and it will be explained later.
    The problem is you seem to think that the Viltumites are a rational people, but as we can see from Nolan they aren't. They believe themselves to be superior to everyone else and they view other species as being nothing more than animals. They take other worlds by force because they believe it their right to rule by being strong and according to their twisted ideology the weak can only benefit by being ruled by the strong. Not to mention the whole culling the weak thing which would be a major red flag to any society like Earth who tend to protect the weak rather than discard them.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The Viltrumites are ethnofascists.
    You seem like you would have read the comics with the Hellboy/Mignola imagery and comic related talk, but I'll lightly say that...
    It is interesting the Viltrumites are willing to get it on with half the galaxy. Pretty interesting results down the line from the Viltrumite's [I]willingness[/I].
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    You seem like you would have read the comics with the Hellboy/Mignola imagery and comic related talk, but I'll lightly say that...
    I usually read trades, and Invincible's always been on my "I'll get that next time or two" list for like 10+ years now. I was pretty excited when I heard about this project, because I don't have to make room in my budget to experience a version of the story.

    I read a fair bit, but I can't read EVERYTHING. And while I do like graphic novels, most of what I read is regular novels.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I usually read trades, and Invincible's always been on my "I'll get that next time or two" list for like 10+ years now. I was pretty excited when I heard about this project, because I don't have to make room in my budget to experience a version of the story.

    I read a fair bit, but I can't read EVERYTHING. And while I do like graphic novels, most of what I read is regular novels.
    Gotcha. Same, I only read comics in Omnibus/Collected Editions these days. Hope I didn't ruin the bit I put in spoiler tags. I do think the "pure blood" thing is interesting and obviously, there is a lot more story ahead in any case.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    He never asks or brings it up. The issue is he portrays it as being a net positive, jumping the planet forwards hundreds of years technologically. And the word enslavement is thrown around but it's hardly enslavement, especially if the question is broached, "want to join this space empire, be protected, keep most local control (not like earth had it's own space empire nothing would change), the strong of the planet would become part of the Viltrium army (they were still defending themselves anyway so again hardly a change.) The way it's explained is that the Viltrium simply can't take over more planets as it spreads them too thin the old way. So they started to send out people like Omni to recon and subvert the planets to their will... but the end result plays out the same.
    You're assuming that Earth would peacefully assimilate.
    You're assuming that Nolan isn't lying.

    There's no reason to believe that the Viltrium are nice about anything they do. The one alien with some power that we do see (Allen) fears the Viltriums.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    there's not really a good way to put most of it in without it spoiling alot of the plot. at most I think they could have fit in why they don't just ask people to join as its a rather minor reason being that they just like conflict.
    I thought it was explained though.

    After their own civil war, they lost 1/2 their population. After conquering many planets, it became difficult as their people were stretching too thin. So instead they go to planets and weaken them from the inside so they can more easily conquer them.
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  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    I thought it was explained though.

    After their own civil war, they lost 1/2 their population. After conquering many planets, it became difficult as their people were stretching too thin. So instead they go to planets and weaken them from the inside so they can more easily conquer them.
    With out going into spoilers, that’s not even half the full story.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    With out going into spoilers, that’s not even half the full story.
    I'm sure. But as someone who has not read the comics, and is only going off what we have seen in the show, I thought it was explained pretty well for now.
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  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    I'm sure. But as someone who has not read the comics, and is only going off what we have seen in the show, I thought it was explained pretty well for now.
    The comic actually had a extra added bit here where Nolan had picked out the earth and pleaded to go there because he liked the way it looked even though it wasn’t on the empires list of go to planets because it was a bit primitive.

    Keeping that part in would Probably have helped those who feel like the explanation is a bit bare bones without having to spoil the later plot points of the empire.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    The comic actually had a extra added bit here where Nolan had picked out the earth and pleaded to go there because he liked the way it looked even though it wasn’t on the empires list of go to planets because it was a bit primitive.

    Keeping that part in would Probably have helped those who feel like the explanation is a bit bare bones without having to spoil the later plot points of the empire.
    If he chose Earth for its beauty, a flashback scene during the baseball game portion would have been perfect for that. From a viewer who is ignorant to the rest of the story anyhow.

    Though after thinking more about that, lol. It would have been flashback inception lol. That could feel odd for people who have a hard time following along with stories with that level of intricacy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Keeping that part in would Probably have helped those who feel like the explanation is a bit bare bones without having to spoil the later plot points of the empire.
    Now you have me hyped to understand the real reason the Vitrumites decided to cull 1/2 their population. The show touches on it, but doesn't get into the fine details.
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  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    If he chose Earth for its beauty, a flashback scene during the baseball game portion would have been perfect for that. From a viewer who is ignorant to the rest of the story anyhow.

    Though after thinking more about that, lol. It would have been flashback inception lol. That could feel odd for people who have a hard time following along with stories with that level of intricacy.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Now you have me hyped to understand the real reason the Vitrumites decided to cull 1/2 their population. The show touches on it, but doesn't get into the fine details.
    If I had to guess on how there gonna Structure it based on season 1 we may have to wait for season 3 to get see the full picture play out.

    Though if season 2 ends where I think it will Nolan’s part should be almost comply shown baring some near the end of the series stuff which would likely not happen until a season 4.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    Ew, Omniman fucked his pet...
    ZOMG! So glad that I'm not the only person who had that immediate reaction to Omniman's "explanation".

    "EW! He fucked his pet?! Had a kid with his pet?!" That..doesn't make more sense Space Nazi. (lol)

    My OWN PERSONAL theory here - not read comics or anything (and if I'm right at all you don't' have to tell me cuz I don't want the spoilers either! lol) - but personal theory as to 'why now' and 'what's coming'.

    But based on finishing s1 - (under spoilers here to be polite!)

    And apologies for having no idea how to spell the alien race's name correctly. =D


    The 'why now' reason for Nolan was Mark manifesting his power. His "Coming of Age" by manifesting powers, if you will. The Viltrimites aren't just taking over weaker races on other planets "for the hell of it", they are also looking for viable races to breed with to preserve their own super powers (for lack of a better term). For whatever XYZ reason they can't successfully maintain their numbers. So they didn't just sent out fellow Viltrimites to prime planets for takeover, but also to figure out which ones will support cross-breeding.

    Until and unless Mark got powers, that wasn't Earth. But the day Mark showed himself to be a "true Viltrimite", that all changed. Sure, Earth may have still be marked to be taken over one day - but the timeline changed when Mark showed humans would inherit Viltrimite power. Once that happened, Nolan knew it "changed everything" and now he had to *really* prepare for a future that was now happening sooner, rather than later.

    As to whether Nolan flew off to stop them, or somehow divert them or buy time - I'm not sold on. Show did a really good job of making his villian logic complete and that up until now, His demeanor was all a show for the 'dancing monkeys' (Humans - to paraphrase another arch-villian's words); but I do understand the whole idea of redemption in comics as well so I'm not saying he didn't fly off to stop them, either.

    Though at this juncture - it seems more logical that, at best, he flew off to maybe convince the Viltriums that subjugating isn't the best way when you get more out of 'cooperating' with your interbreeding species... but that's all the 'good guy' I can give him after that episode =D.


    The only part of the finale episode that rang hollow to me was the overt avoiding of anyone seemingly able to logically predict "Where Nolan Went" and "What that means." When to me it seems pretty dang obvious where the alien man flew off to and what we should be preparing for... I mean he TOLD THEM what was coming. But yea, sure. Ok. Let's all play the d'uh card. (Us as in the characters).
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  19. #179
    Finally watched it, having read the comic before. Generally, I have no complaints, close enough to comic book without changing things which did not neet changing or drawing out minor plot points. Oh and I do like it way more than The Boys (not the Amazon show, but the universe).
    But fuck the graphics - I do not know whether they did not have enough budget or was it due to person in charge (fire him/her/it anyway), it was fucking awful. I am pretty sure I saw character eyes not being on the same level more than once and I do not mean it was because of the comic style. CGI was totally random and all over the place, couple of nice shots, then just something blurry and totally different from the rest of scene with 2D characters pasted on top of it looking like 2 different things mashed together. Animations went from smooth to dear god give me more than 2 frames.
    I am not asking for Ufotable god-level work, I am asking for something less jarring and more modern.
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  20. #180
    Finally got around to watching it. Was putting it off for the same reason I stopped watching Attack on Titan after the first couple seasons: don't think I have the stomach for the sadistic ultra-violence. It's strange, because I don't have a problem with something like The Boys, but when it's animated I guess it gives the show-runners room to make it way too over-the-top for my tastes. /shrug

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