[TV] Invincible

[Lorgar Aurelian]

@Ivanstone here's an article discussing the satire.



https://www.pastemagazine.com/comics...-a-swift-kick/

Your not helping our cause those issues are all about subverting the rest of the series there not an example of what most of the series is like.

[EyelessCrow]

Just the violence qualifies as satirical.

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@Ivanstone here's an article discussing the satire.



https://www.pastemagazine.com/comics...-a-swift-kick/

Yes SOOOOO satirical

[Ivanstone]

Just the violence qualifies as satirical.

@Ivanstone here's an article discussing the satire.



https://www.pastemagazine.com/comics...-a-swift-kick/

It really doesn't.

Its 145 issues long with a wide variety of stories told. Through it all Mark tries to be a good hero ie Superman.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And all of them involved some form of satire based on the stories from the other companies.

Have you actually read any of it? The fact that you pulled up likely the first thing you found on google even though it’s a subversion of the rest of the series suggest no.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yes, I have. Have you?

I’m gonna press X to doubt on that given that the only thing you have been able to bring up was issue 124-26 and not say darkwing and night city or powerplex or even dinosaurus. All better examples of satire which aren't out of whack with the rest of the series like mark going back in time for a couple of issues.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Nifty. Calling me a liar when you fail to understand how satire works. Kirkman himself has discussed how it subverts the genre and you’re claiming it’s not doing so. Fun. Didn’t you call out The Boys as being satire? Pretty sure Kirkman puts Invincible in the same basket...

I mean I gave you three examples of actual satire in the series aimed towards batman the hulk and general “you killed my family” revenge guys who are common in comics.

You refuse to give any examples other then the one two issue story line which is nothing like the rest of the series and feels like you just pulled up by googling “satire in invincible” and then expect every one to just take your word for it.

[everydaygamer]

Satire certainly exists within Invincible but it would be false to claim that Invincible as a whole is satire.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Satire certainly exists within Invincible but it would be false to claim that Invincible as a whole is satire.

Very much so this.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Thanks for admitting it’s satire. And the entire series is satirical. Just because it has a complete story encased doesn’t negate that. If anything it reinforces it. No comic ends, they just keep going.

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Never said it was, just that it permeates the entire story.

Having a few points of satire doesn’t make the whole series satirical dude that’s not how any thing works.

Like do you see every thing in a binary? There’s one point of satire so a whole series is satirical even if your not capable of pointing out any other instances of it?

Yeah, remember when you claimed it’s not satire because it plays em straight? Nifty.

I also don’t know if your desperately falling apart and looking for a gotcha but I already posted this.

Ok so what part of satire are they using then? I can't think of any moment where they really criticize the Dc characters baring Mabye one time with darkwing.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

No, but apparently you do. See I can recognize the satire that permeates the show without claiming it’s not satire because they play shit straight and have a storyline. It’s not primarily satire, bit it is satirical.

See stuff like this is why I doubt your claims that you actually read the comic.

The entire show is a satire. Sorry that you don’t see it.

Your lying through your smiling dog teeth.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You admit the characters are a satirical take on other properties, yes? Then get over it.

No none of the characters I mentioned are satirical take's on other properties but they all have satirical moments, here ill explain as you haven't read the comics.

Darkwing has a satirical moment when he fights invincible but other wise is not a satirical take on batman

Powerplex is a satirical take on "you killed my father prepare to die" but is not a satirical take on any other super hero.

dinosaurus has two satirical moment's with his human form needing to feel indifferent to transform instead of angry but is not a satirical take on the hulk.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Oh dear, you’ve never read Marvel or DC.

so you got nothing then? true to form I suppose.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You really need me to start naming characters?

I mean you haven't been able to give any examples for any thing else so far sooooo.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Batman, Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman, Cyborg...

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Gambit, She-Hulk, Etrigan, Scarlet Witch...

ah is see you've reset to factory mode and gone to the start, so here let me repost my first reply.

Ripping off characters doesn’t inherently make something satire. The show/comic never really make fun of DC or it’s characters it just uses the character ideas and plays them straight unlike the boys.

[Zaktar]

You asked for satire. Every single incarnation in Invincible is basically a caricature of a pre-existing property. What are caricatures? Right, satire.

Whether they are caricatures or not is debatable, some very clearly are and some very clearly aren't. Omni-man has some similarities to Superman, and it's clearly intended that the viewer/reader make connections between the two, but he isn't a caricature of Superman. To me the tone of the series and the comic is too earnest and serious to really be classified as satire. There are satirical moments for sure, but that doesn't mean the whole work should be classified as satire.

[Zaktar]

Satire can be incredibly serious. It’s a satirical look at comics that takes itself seriously. Much like The Boys. It’s designed to subvert the genre, which is key to satire and straight from the creator. I’m not saying it’s primarily satire, because the story goes so much deeper than that, but it clearly has satirical elements. Which makes it at least partially a satire.

The intentions behind satire are always serious, but the tone should be explicitly humorous. Invincible has a sense of humor but personally I can't classify it as a comedy. The Boys is a different thing, I think it is trying to be a satire but falls a little flat because of the way Ennis puts the Punisher/Billy up on a pedestal.

[Ivanstone]

The Boys is a different thing, I think it is trying to be a satire but falls a little flat because of the way Ennis puts the Punisher/Billy up on a pedestal.

Ennis put Billy up on a pedestal? I don’t think so. Ennis is also the guy that stated the Punisher is a serial killer. Neither are the hero.

Also the Boys isn’t primarily a super hero satire although viewers of the TV show can be forgiven for thinking that.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You asked for satire. Every single incarnation in Invincible is basically a caricature of a pre-existing property. What are caricatures? Right, satire.

so you really had nothing to point to for it being satire then, can't say I'm surprised given that you've done nothing but try and dodge commuting to any actual examples.

no most of the characters aren't caricatures like Aquarus most are like rex splode who take's powers from gambit but obviously isn't a caricature.

[Zaktar]

Yeah, that’s not how satire works. Most people know it for humor, but it’s not inherent.

Here's a basic definition of satire:

the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

Here's a more involved explanation of satire: https://www.masterclass.com/articles...ypes-of-satire

You're saying the tone should not be explicitly humorous? Because it looks like Horatian, Juvenalian, and Menippean satire all involve a humorous tone. The examples they give are explicitly humorous, and all exaggerated well beyond what is done in Invincible. You say humor isn't inherent to satire but that's not what every definition I can find says. I'm not an expert by any means, I had never heard of those types of satire before looking them up today, so maybe you are - if so, could you explain a bit more clearly what satire means to you?

Like okay, Invincible has obviously copied many elements of the Marvel and DC universes, but I'm not really seeing an overall critique of those two settings. In some cases it copies them very directly, in some cases it uses them as a starting point to tell more complex or real-feeling stories, and in many cases it just does its own thing. I'm not seeing a larger social commentary, or rather I'm not seeing the copies of those other works fit into a larger social commentary. It generally respects the consequences of actions and I think is trying to make some points on that subject, but that's not really a critique of DC or Marvel.

[SirReal]

I watched the first episode, and it was okay, but didn't really draw me in. The ending was so-so, didn't really fit the rest of the episode, but as setup it'd be fine I guess. I also looked up the twist to see if it mattered to me.

I've found a lot of Amazon's shows to be sort of just "there", I watched the first episode of Carnival Row and Tales From The Loop, neither was bad, but neither drew me in enough to keep watching. They're still in my queue-thing, so if I get bored enough and I'm in the mood, but they just don't do it for me and I don't think Invincible will either.

Watch Zero Zero Zero - absolute gem from Amazon.