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  1. #481
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludek View Post
    You mean 9.0.x will break the Siege of Orgrimmar record of 13 months without new content?
    Of course it will...because some Youtuber said so!
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    You actually think Blizzard expects people to farm 200k+ anima in one patch to buy all the cosmetics before adding more in the second patch? Ok, pal. That's as ridiculous as the island expeditions vendor, which is why I brought it up. Not sure why you bothered to "humblebrag" that you only played 1/24th of last expansion, as if that doesn't reduce the value of your opinion stead of improving it as you seem to have thought it would.

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    I don't see infinite artifact power grinds, titanforging to entice running old content praying for a lotto win, spammable island expeditions for consumables consuming hundreds of hours, azerite gear, essences, or visions to run. That seems like a lot of systems cut.

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    Reminds me of the guys in WoD who went "A, D, F, G, and X aren't content so it's proof WoD has less content that ever before." I likened it to going to the fridge, seeing it stuffed with things you're not in the mood for, and lying to people and saying it's empty.
    Except WoD actually did have barely any content. Aside from raiding, there really wasn't anything to do in the endgame. People would do their garrisons, maybe raid, then log.

  3. #483
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post

    Wild fires caused some to evacuate to hotels
    And most of us would be pretty understanding if at BlizzCon they took just five goddamn minutes from the constant nostalgia trips and prattle about community and told us that "Hey, due to Covid, wildfires and hurricanes we are massively behind schedule so expect 9.1 to come half a year later than usual. Don't worry we will still have 3 raid patches this expansion" Or something like that. But they didn't and now only have guesses, half truths and youtube conspiracy theories to tell us what people have subbed for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Except WoD actually did have barely any content. Aside from raiding, there really wasn't anything to do in the endgame. People would do their garrisons, maybe raid, then log.
    Yep, WoD had very little to do outside of Garrisons. Same with SL and Torghast. Not everything is easy to quantify, but I made a list in this very thread a few pages back and not only are these two one of the least packed launches, Shadowlands has less content than WoD (if we count all the usual stuff like zones, races, classes, professions, dungeons, raids, arenas, battlegrounds).

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by razorpax View Post
    7.1 had Raid 3 bosses Which made it 10 bosses in all and it was considered overtuned due to the fact heroic odyn was as tough as mythic Xavius according to raiders at the time
    Mega dungeon
    Helheim quests
    I think more leggos

    I’m ok with 9.1 hitting in June (it won’t be July) because it’s more than that
    The comparison with 7.1 really doesn't work for Shadowlands because 7.1 came 2 months after Legion's launch. You have to compare it to 7.1.5 which came 4.5 months after Legion's launch and brought Nighthold into the game, a very well received 10-boss raid. To be precise: 9.1 must be released next week to match the timeline of 7.1.5.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainV View Post
    I can appriciate that, a vanillia vet myself, and honestly the charm of the game has been lost and mired in activision transactions over quality content, id say the downhill slope started showing its early signs of dangerous ideas when they started throwing in the WoD Era instant level 90 boost, even if MoP was basically an RNG nightmare it still had elements of what made Vanillia decent, but it was definatley the *Last* expansion that felt like a Vanillia experience, though id regard Wrath as the final expansion of the Vanillia Atmosphere.

    What I mean by that to elaborate?

    Wrath was the last expansion where talent tree's, the old way of pvp, the raiding scene, dungeons, pve content felt truly balanced out in an even handed way, where content wasnt just built around raid tiers. Cataclysm tried to avoid this but ended up introducing us to LFR at the end of its road aswell as bonus rolls and warforged, 3 of the worst mistakes blizz ever made.

    However in MoP, id say they were fairly well rounded, bonus rolls added something rather than took something away, they were an addition not a requirement, there was still ways to earn gear via upgrading it with badges and other things you could do to keep up with the end game like reforging your stats.

    Once they took all that out, WoW truly became a meandering experience of repetative farms, WoD was the first expansion raids became the primary focus and it shows, the quality dropped heavily and it sucked hard. They -tried- to fix it with Legion but it was too little too late, and Artifact grinds were a telltale sign of worse to come aswell as RNG legendaries.

    BFA was the ultimate iteration of bad grind impliaments and Shadowlands took away some of the worst parts while doing very little if anything to better the game, ultimatley making it feel like a *less bad* BFA while still managing to somehow be lackluster over all.

    Really my advice to blizz at this point would be:

    Everything I suggested before *and*...

    Please please *Please* get rid of Ion already, he was a good raid designer but he is a TERRIBLE director and its showing, since hes been in charge the quality of the game has dropped dramatically and its sad to watch it fall so low.

    Also, please put Christie Golden back into the role of supporting writer, not lead writer. The BFA story was a mess and an absoleute lackluster story experience by the beginning-middle-and-end and its just sad to watch it go so down hill after Legion was so damn good.
    The game has been chipped down over the years. Little by little, the game has changed. At times it was like we didnt even notice it. I cant really point to one xpac and say "this is were everything went wrong", cause theres so many things and decisions made by Blizzard that has brought us to were the game are now. I can agree on that alot changed after WotLK though, that xpac now feels like the "last" true wow experience xpac.

    I'll keep playing wow when new content releases and for the time being I have alot of fun with classic, but my playstyle in retail will be like I imagine Blizzard wants it to be: Sub up, play a bit, unsub, return later. As I said, it more and more looks like Blizzard wants the playerbase to treat wow retail as a CoD game. With seasonal updated stuff(mounts, new content, affixes++) every 6+ months. For the players that enjoy staying in game for the long haul, it just gets more and more frustrating for each xpac & patch. It says something when I get more out of Classic than retail. I've been playing classic for a long time and even though im not getting showered in epics and all, I get something out of it almost every time I play.

    They are also changing up how subs work and the bottom line there is they want people to sub for longer periods instead of month by month. Present a deal its hard to say no to(Great mount+6 month sub) and people stay subbed even if they dont play. With new mount every 6 month, wow token, pets, race/faction/server transfer and all that - they dont need people to have active subs for long period of times. Even though they are trying to lure people into doing it now.

    Ion is probably a great raid designer and to be fair - He and Blizzard has always delivered on raids & dungeons. That content has never really been a problem.

    All in all - I think this is a intented direction they are pushing with retail wow. For many the waittime inbetween patches/xpacs are long and frustrating but we always forget that when something new launches. Then we play and few months later we complain. rinse repeat and Blizzard still gets revenue breaking yearly records.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    And most of us would be pretty understanding if at BlizzCon they took just five goddamn minutes from the constant nostalgia trips and prattle about community and told us that "Hey, due to Covid, wildfires and hurricanes we are massively behind schedule so expect 9.1 to come half a year later than usual. Don't worry we will still have 3 raid patches this expansion" Or something like that. But they didn't and now only have guesses, half truths and youtube conspiracy theories to tell us what people have subbed for.

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    Yep, WoD had very little to do outside of Garrisons. Same with SL and Torghast. Not everything is easy to quantify, but I made a list in this very thread a few pages back and not only are these two one of the least packed launches, Shadowlands has less content than WoD (if we count all the usual stuff like zones, races, classes, professions, dungeons, raids, arenas, battlegrounds).
    I completely agree. Shadownlands manages to be worse than BfA and WoD COMBINED.

  7. #487
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I completely agree. Shadownlands manages to be worse than BfA and WoD COMBINED.
    Guild and playing with it only thing keeping me subbed at the moment.

  8. #488
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I completely agree. Shadownlands manages to be worse than BfA and WoD COMBINED.
    Well it combines what some people disliked about both. The scarce content, land long wait for patches from WoD (might even include the lack of 9.3). And taking a detour to a different dimension to do stuff that barely concerns MU Azeroth.

    From BfA we have the borrrowed power BS, the nonsensical writing and the dumb resource grind for everything.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Guild and playing with it only thing keeping me subbed at the moment.
    Same, only because I'm in a cool social environment in my guild. My friends already unsubbed...
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    No. On these forums any updates mean an expansion hint.
    Wrathin comes back? Dragon expansion clearly!
    LK part of a quest? Wotlk 2 clearly!
    Sylvanas working with a death master? Shadowlands clearly!

    At the point we're headed for Wrath of the Shdowlands Dragon Isles Lich and tinkers.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Yes, covid is partly responsible, but it's not all.
    Covid impacted FFXIV content releases by 2 months. WoW is being more directly impacted. From the launch delay to the first patch delay, there was more than just covid going on.
    Either that or they really haven't adapted to working from home. Regardless, the situation is dire.
    Like, say, a huge forest fire in California?

    Dire is rather hyperbolic. The situation may not be perfect, but it's far from terrible or even really all that bad.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Yes, covid is partly responsible, but it's not all.
    Covid impacted FFXIV content releases by 2 months. WoW is being more directly impacted. From the launch delay to the first patch delay, there was more than just covid going on.
    Either that or they really haven't adapted to working from home. Regardless, the situation is dire.
    For sure. I am not here to say some companies handled it better than others. Obviously that's the case no matter the situation. I don't think anyone is suprised Blizzard would get hamstrung more by it. Staffing is pretty much in constant turn over. Most the Q and A department cut and I wouldn't doubt if devs are asked to double shift that too. Located in So Cal also was probably no help since it was hard hit and involved in some of the harshest shutdown orders. It also hit hard during SL peek dev time, lasted all the way though crunch, and eventually release. Then even post release and into the first patch.

    So yeah, you got a point, obviously Blizzard could have done better. But its just Monday morning and we are all talking about how if I was quarterback I never would have toss that interuption Tom Brady threw. What was he thinking. Right... everyone's an expert when its the next day, they have seen the results, and can just say "well I would've" or "so and so did it better" sort of crap.

    Its no excuse for them either. It's obviously a major problem. But they could just communicate a little and just let the tension out of the room. But they won't. Another day of silence might keep a few subs ticking a little longer. Because we know if it was good news they would be talking. Or at least that's how I feel about it at this point.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Like, say, a huge forest fire in California?

    Dire is rather hyperbolic. The situation may not be perfect, but it's far from terrible or even really all that bad.
    In less than month this community spiral themselves out of proportions and started to believe that Blizzard is in some panic mode. Kinda hard to talk with people that convinced themselves 9.1 is August/September/2022, we need PTR to make discussion little more sane.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    In less than month this community spiral themselves out of proportions and started to believe that Blizzard is in some panic mode. Kinda hard to talk with people that convinced themselves 9.1 is August/September/2022, we need PTR to make discussion little more sane.
    I have not seen anyone say September or 2022. Given that it is almost April, 9.1 is not on the ptr and that major content patches are typically tested for 3 months, yeah, I'd say August seems about right. No one is hysterical buddy, it's just logic.

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Adding a couple of affixes isn't content. It's the same dungeon, same adds, same bosses. Saying it is would be like people saying changing the color effects of a spell with the click of a button is content.
    All pve content is the same. Its just your character vs a few new mechanics. Fighting level 1 boar is same content as mythic sire because it's just a few different mechanics.

    Do you agree? If not, why?

  15. #495
    Stood in the Fire keelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Adding a couple of affixes isn't content. It's the same dungeon, same adds, same bosses. Saying it is would be like people saying changing the color effects of a spell with the click of a button is content.
    Dungeons in bfa with the s2, s3 and s4 affixes felt completly different, so yes, its new content.

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltii View Post
    I have not seen anyone say September or 2022. Given that it is almost April, 9.1 is not on the ptr and that major content patches are typically tested for 3 months, yeah, I'd say August seems about right. No one is hysterical buddy, it's just logic.
    Yes, I saw both September and 2022 suggestions on this forum. Can't remember if it was this thread, they're all the same to be honest.

    You are freaking out cause you're bored and youtube drama queens know how to manipulate you to get more views. Want logic? I'll give you some logic.

    1. If you want to estimate PTR length, I would rather suggest to base it on big patches that came around summer, no point to compare it with late year patches that are extended by stuff like Christmas, Thanksgiving or Blizzcon. So let's get examples from last few years:
    - 8.2 - 10 weeks on PTR
    - 7.3 - 9 weeks on PTR
    - 6.2 - 10 weeks on PTR

    (by the way, all 3 patches are bigger than 9.1)

    So I would say 10 weeks/70 days is better estimation than 3 months/90 days.

    2. Even if we agree to 3 months and no PTR this week, 3 months from April is still not August, buddy.

    3. From news we heard 9.1 is not hard patch to implement. They don't have to repair serious problems in endgame, just give more content. They even resigned to solve tier sets problem this time around.

    4. ONLY word from Blizzard about 9.1 dates (excluding "Towelllie's dev buddy") is that 9.1 PTR will be "soon after 9.0.5". Well for sure we know Blizzard soon is longer than 2 weeks, will it be longer than 2 months though?

    5. Imagine what Blizzard HQ would do to Ion and devs when they reveal their plans to not release retail patch in Q2. If they would be so behind, they would just split patch and release raid and dungeon 1-2 months later.

    I will agree with people that Q2 release is unlikely if I won't see PTR running on April 20th. Before that, yes, it's hysteria.

  17. #497
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    In less than month this community spiral themselves out of proportions and started to believe that Blizzard is in some panic mode. Kinda hard to talk with people that convinced themselves 9.1 is August/September/2022, we need PTR to make discussion little more sane.
    either a PTR or honest dev communication.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    either a PTR or honest dev communication.
    What's dishonest about current communication? Blizzard never gives roadmap, like it or not, but you know what to expect. They said more or less what 9.1 will contain. Ion said they want start PTR soon after 9.0.5 launch.

    What you expect now beside PTR start? "Hold on few more weeks guys" message that would piss everybody? People expect that something is happening when they see blue post.

  19. #499
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corroc View Post
    i'm sure people who are concerned about content would rather have break from the game instead of getting half baked content.
    Seriously?

    Stop buying Blizz PR. There is no reason that Blizz can't put out quality content in a short period of time. They *used* to do that all the time. The time between BC and Wrath was 22 months. Wrath launched with as many dungeons as the last 2 expansions combined, a new class, a new profession, new zones, etc, etc. If anything, with a game this old, Blizz should be able to put out even more content than they did back then.

    Blizz executives are putting on their sad eyes, asking for mercy, going on long vacations, and pocketing massive profits...and idiots keep buying this spiel. Stop buying the BS.

  20. #500
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    What's dishonest about current communication? Blizzard never gives roadmap, like it or not, but you know what to expect. They said more or less what 9.1 will contain. Ion said they want start PTR soon after 9.0.5 launch.

    What you expect now beside PTR start? "Hold on few more weeks guys" message that would piss everybody? People expect that something is happening when they see blue post.
    Yes, somethink like this. Or maybe: The folliowing issues (x,y,z) affected development so schedule is behind a-b months and features c and d will be cut.

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