WoWpinion: Whats the opinion/argument that pisses you off the most?

[Bodakane]

Advantage: any state, circumstance, opportunity, or means specially favorable to success, interest, or any desired end

Paying to skip large swaths of content and jumping straight into the recent expansion and therefore having a headstart in jumping into endgame content is a huge advantage over a player who isn't spending $60 and has to level all the way to 58 and then finally start the new expansion then begin working towards endgame content.

This is the last time I'm repeating myself. If you ask the same nonsense again, I will not be responding. Actually read what I'm posting rather than picking and choosing then getting hostile.

You keep stating the same thing over and over and over all while thinking it is an explanation. You are also ignoring every logical point I've made.

1. I've shown you it is NOT an advantage by explaining a person who boosts a character likely will play that toon worse than a person that levels and will also likely have worse gear and less gold.
2. There's no competition in leveling. So getting to "endgame' first is not an advantage. Its not even an achievement. Its literally nothing but a benchmark you fucking made up. For fuck's sake, buying the game before you, gives me the same advantage you're claiming a boost gives. Did the act of simply purchasing the game make it a pay to win? Of course not.
3. I've explained that wow has gone percentage based, so different levels don't actually have a noticeable difference until you get gear, which you have to earn in endgame content no matter if you boosted or not.
4. If paying for a boost is an advantage, then so is paying for a mount.....for the exact same reasons.
5. I've given you examples of things that would count as an advantage and leveling faster isn't one of them.
6. The only thing WoW does that comes close to pay for win, is game time tokens, since they can be sold for gold. that's it, but gold has been mostly trivialized at this point.

[Soon-TM]

MMOs are grinds at the end. If you take that away, WoD happens imo.

Maybe they are, but for some reason I didn't find e.g. BC or WotLK to be as tediously grindy as early Legion or pre-8.3 BfA (farming essences /puke). Or getting your leggos in SL and upgrading them... !@#$ that @$%&

[Nite92]

Mythic raider getting hurt over wf /tf
Quickly, Collect them tears

WoW has already random loot that is on a weekly lockout, there is no need for another layer of randomness.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe they are, but for some reason I didn't find e.g. BC or WotLK to be as tediously grindy as early Legion or pre-8.3 BfA (farming essences /puke). Or getting your leggos in SL and upgrading them... !@#$ that @$%&

Because the mindset changed for many of us.
In TBC and WOTLK there was mystery, wonder.
Now everything is a spreadsheet.

I think that is quite a big deal when it comes to how "grindy" a game feels.

"I wonder what items drop in heroic dungeons/kara once I get in there" vs. "I need to farm soul ash for 4 weeks to get x BiS leggo". Atleast that is how it was for me.

[RoKPaNda]

Mythic raider getting hurt over wf /tf
Quickly, Collect them tears

As a Mythic raider I agree with this actually. We get the best loot overall in the game, it doesn't hurt us in any way if little Jimmy gets a single nice item. We cried for years about something that was good for everyone else. It's okay if sometimes things in this game don't cater to us.

[TheRevenantHero]

You keep stating the same thing over and over and over all while thinking it is an explanation. You are also ignoring every logical point I've made.

1. I've shown you it is NOT an advantage by explaining a person who boosts a character likely will play that toon worse than a person that levels and will also likely have worse gear and less gold.
2. There's no competition in leveling. So getting to "endgame' first is not an advantage. Its not even an achievement. Its literally nothing but a benchmark you fucking made up. For fuck's sake, buying the game before you, gives me the same advantage you're claiming a boost gives. Did the act of simply purchasing the game make it a pay to win? Of course not.
3. I've explained that wow has gone percentage based, so different levels don't actually have a noticeable difference until you get gear, which you have to earn in endgame content no matter if you boosted or not.
4. If paying for a boost is an advantage, then so is paying for a mount.....for the exact same reasons.
5. I've given you examples of things that would count as an advantage and leveling faster isn't one of them.
6. The only thing WoW does that comes close to pay for win, is game time tokens, since they can be sold for gold. that's it, but gold has been mostly trivialized at this point.

I've explained how what you're saying is wrong. Your comments about it not being an advantage is wrong and shows you don't know what an advantage is. Getting to endgame IS competition because of things like the Hall of Fame. The fact that you're saying that getting to max level quicker by paying makes me think you don't even play the game.

[Yuli]

The lore and writing is bad because I must know everything without reading outside sources. But also it's not deep enough, duh.

Also: The WoW books are bad bc they're based on a video geeeeme

Edit: Also - [Insert unpopular Character here] is Garrosh/Gul'dan/Kerrigan/Arthas/Gandalf 2.0

[arkanon]

You. Don;t. Have. An. Advantage. Over. Other. Players. By. Boosting. Your. Level.

There is no definition of pay to win that supports your bullshit stance. None. Nada.

Try it from this angle, explain what advantage I have over you if I boost my level to 58 while you level.

Lets help you out a little. You are at the start line of a 70 lap race. Just as the lights go green, someone pays race control $60 and is instantly on lap 58. You are saying "they.do.not.gain.an.advantage". This is how you sound. This is what you are saying.

Your argument is "no, its not an advantage, because there are many races in the season, so it doesnt count".

You are welcome to argue that it is not a game breaking advantage, or that you personally dont consider it a very large advantage - but to say it is not an advantage is just naive.

If you don't like that analogy, how about this one: You turn up on race day, to a track everyone has driven on hundreds of times. You bust your ass for a few days through qualifying, trying to get that very important poll position, then someone wanders up to race control, hands them $60, and they are gifted poll position. They can still get in as much testing as they want, but on race day, there is nothing you can do - they have poll position.

[TheRevenantHero]

The lore and writing is bad because I must know everything without reading outside sources. But also it's not deep enough, duh.

Also: The WoW books are bad bc they're based on a video geeeeme

The lore and writing used to be great. BfA and Shadowlands writing/plot is exceptionally bad, though.

[Soon-TM]

The lore and writing used to be great. BfA and Shadowlands writing/plot is exceptionally bad, though.

Meh, as much as I love BC (probably my favourite expansion ever), the story was an utter, complete carfire. WotLK was somewhat better, even if I facepalmed so hard with the "there must always be a LK" that the echoes can still be heard. Cata and WoD had a couple of good points, but they were overall terrible. So the story has always ranged between "ok" at best, and "WTF is this &$#@" at worst.

[TheRevenantHero]

Meh, as much as I love BC (probably my favourite expansion ever), the story was an utter, complete carfire. WotLK was somewhat better, even if I facepalmed so hard with the "there must always be a LK" that the echoes can still be heard. Cata and WoD had a couple of good points, but they were overall terrible. So the story has always ranged between "ok" at best, and "WTF is this &$#@" at worst.

For me, the story didn't become "what the fuck am I reading" until WoD. Legion improved a bit then BfA nosedived towards the pile of shit and Shadowlands is gleefully eating that shit.

[arkanon]

For me, the story didn't become "what the fuck am I reading" until WoD. Legion improved a bit then BfA nosedived towards the pile of shit and Shadowlands is gleefully eating that shit.

Interesting isnt it how different our opinions can be on this topic - and so far, with no rage! How very mature of us. Personally, I LOVED the Wrath story, even though it was cliche and cheesy, thats what i want from my video games. TBC was a bit all over the place - i quite enjoyed the zone stories, to some extent, and even many of the samller sub-plots, but the main story was a dumpster-fire, inconsistent mess.

And i did NOT like the legion story AT ALL, but again, im not some lore guy, i just didnt like it.

[Echocho]

Lets help you out a little. You are at the start line of a 70 lap race. Just as the lights go green, someone pays race control $60 and is instantly on lap 58. You are saying "they.do.not.gain.an.advantage". This is how you sound. This is what you are saying.

Boosting vs leveling is not going to matter when winning the game. If you're a new player you're not going to get a world first clear of any raid any time soon. By the time your skill catches up with you you already have multiple capped characters of every class. That character that you leveled 10 years prior could be the one that you win the game with.

[arkanon]

Boosting vs leveling is not going to matter when winning the game. If you're a new player you're not going to get a world first clear of any raid any time soon. By the time your skill catches up with you you already have multiple capped characters of every class. That character that you leveled 10 years prior could be the one that you win the game with.

What on earth are you talking about? Why the hell would it take multiple max levels of the same class to become "skilled" at a 13+ year old game? Seriously, what are you talking about? What the flying buggery does a world first raid kill (which happened over a decade ago, btw) have to do with levleing and a boost?

Im so sick of the defenders of this obvious P2W feature (which im not even against) introducing all these fucking weird and irrelevant criteria to try and prove they are right. Yes, the term P2W includes the word "win" - no, that is not part of the bloody criteria for a feature to be P2W. Its about gaining an advantage - which this CLEARLY does. Does it allow you to instantly kill all raid bosses for second run world firsts? no. Is that at all, in ANY way a prerequisite of a feature being P2W? NO. No its not.

[Aphrel]

Did you see the post earlier about false equivalence?

Yeah. Your post makes no sense.

Nop, so without that context its quite hard to respond with anything to your reply other than "ok man, nice opinion".

[cparle87]

Everytime I hear "its good that there is not so much to do this expansion so I can play alts or other games"

But then how would the guys who rolled 50 characters to farm WoD garrison money have time to do everything?

[Snufflupagus]

Nop, so without that context its quite hard to respond with anything to your reply other than "ok man, nice opinion".

Look it up, ya might learn something

[TheRevenantHero]

Boosting vs leveling is not going to matter when winning the game. If you're a new player you're not going to get a world first clear of any raid any time soon. By the time your skill catches up with you you already have multiple capped characters of every class. That character that you leveled 10 years prior could be the one that you win the game with.

Pay to win doesn't have to be drastic. It's pay to win because throwing money at Blizzard gives the player an advantage since they are paying to get a headstart on working towards endgame content.

[Echocho]

What on earth are you talking about? Why the hell would it take multiple max levels of the same class to become "skilled" at a 13+ year old game? Seriously, what are you talking about? What the flying buggery does a world first raid kill (which happened over a decade ago, btw) have to do with levleing and a boost?

Im so sick of the defenders of this obvious P2W feature (which im not even against) introducing all these fucking weird and irrelevant criteria to try and prove they are right. Yes, the term P2W includes the word "win" - no, that is not part of the bloody criteria for a feature to be P2W. Its about gaining an advantage - which this CLEARLY does. Does it allow you to instantly kill all raid bosses for second run world firsts? no. Is that at all, in ANY way a prerequisite of a feature being P2W? NO. No its not.

Oh we're talking about TBC? Yeah then it's even less P2W because people have had two years to level to 60 even before the game is even out.

The boost is a shitty thing no doubt and I don't want it but it doesn't give you an advantage. If anything, allowing us to pay for Classic and move those characters over to TBC is more P2W.

[Mysterymask]

Pay to win doesn't have to be drastic. It's pay to win because throwing money at Blizzard gives the player an advantage since they are paying to get a headstart on working towards endgame content.

reality of the fact is..in your opinion its pay to win. In other's its not or its barely pay to win. Its a very MINOR win but its a win. The Sparkle Pony when it was released in wrath was pretty damned pay to win since it was 1 mount for all your characters forever that functions as both a flying mount and ground mount. That changed when mounts became account wide but at the time it saved a good chunk of gold. The store pets can be pay to win since they can be used in pet battles and are pretty strong on their own.

If you feel its pay to win you're completely ok to have that opinion and not use it (not that you can anyway). Is blizzard going to remove it? Probably not its probably lucrative enough that its worth keeping and the amount of angry voices on MMO champion screaming pay to win is probably miniscule compared to the amount of money they are making from said boost. It's minor enough that most people don't care and you're just one of the voices that does. Doesn't make you wrong but doesn't make you right either its an opinion.

[TheRevenantHero]

reality of the fact is..in your opinion its pay to win. In other's its not or its barely pay to win. Its a very MINOR win but its a win. The Sparkle Pony when it was released in wrath was pretty damned pay to win since it was 1 mount for all your characters forever that functions as both a flying mount and ground mount. That changed when mounts became account wide but at the time it saved a good chunk of gold. The store pets can be pay to win since they can be used in pet battles and are pretty strong on their own.

If you feel its pay to win you're completely ok to have that opinion and not use it (not that you can anyway). Is blizzard going to remove it? Probably not its probably lucrative enough that its worth keeping and the amount of angry voices on MMO champion screaming pay to win is probably miniscule compared to the amount of money they are making from said boost. It's minor enough that most people don't care and you're just one of the voices that does. Doesn't make you wrong but doesn't make you right either its an opinion.

It's not an opinion. It's pay to win by definition because it's supplying you with an advantage over other players that aren't throwing real money at Blizzard. It doesn't matter how minor people think it is. It grants an advantage so that makes it pay to win even if it's not a HUGE boost to your character's power. That's the facts. Any time you can spend real money to gain an advantage over players who aren't spending real world money, no matter how small the advantage is, it becomes a form of pay to win.