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  1. #301
    Stood in the Fire keelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFawlty View Post
    The "havnt got time to play" is such a lame excuse to justify the boost.
    Why exactly?

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    You keep stating the same thing over and over and over all while thinking it is an explanation. You are also ignoring every logical point I've made.

    1. I've shown you it is NOT an advantage by explaining a person who boosts a character likely will play that toon worse than a person that levels and will also likely have worse gear and less gold.
    2. There's no competition in leveling. So getting to "endgame' first is not an advantage. Its not even an achievement. Its literally nothing but a benchmark you fucking made up. For fuck's sake, buying the game before you, gives me the same advantage you're claiming a boost gives. Did the act of simply purchasing the game make it a pay to win? Of course not.
    3. I've explained that wow has gone percentage based, so different levels don't actually have a noticeable difference until you get gear, which you have to earn in endgame content no matter if you boosted or not.
    4. If paying for a boost is an advantage, then so is paying for a mount.....for the exact same reasons.
    5. I've given you examples of things that would count as an advantage and leveling faster isn't one of them.
    6. The only thing WoW does that comes close to pay for win, is game time tokens, since they can be sold for gold. that's it, but gold has been mostly trivialized at this point.
    If its not an advantage of any kind - why do people buy it?

  3. #303
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    People thinking that min max is toxic.

    Been on with this today a lot lol. Min max is the natural thing to do developing a character. Toxicity is another thing.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    anything suggesting that the Blizzard store is Pay to Win.

    I mean, we all know a matching Tmog boosts DPS by 10%, and a badass pet boosts it another 10%.

    Kappa
    Paying for a boost to 2100 will increase dps by a lot more than 10%...

    But keep believing your precious game is a meritocracy

  5. #305
    Stood in the Fire keelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intenz View Post
    Paying for a boost to 2100 will increase dps by a lot more than 10%...

    But keep believing your precious game is a meritocracy
    expect you can't buy arenas boost in the blizzard store.

  6. #306
    you dont HAVE to do it

  7. #307
    Im kinda annoyed by the classic players losing their mind over a boost that puts you 2 levels behind in garbo gear, with no gold reserves, calling it pay to win. Its pay to maybe kill some boars and get an upgrade putting you about 80% behind players who are in tier 3... is it even 80% behind? Maybe 800% behind (since i recall having a few zg items and the original prepatch allowing me to purchase decent high warlord weapons) i never replaced them until around 63ish... tier THREE? And all that gold? Didnt those dudes only start replacing their gear literally at (or very near) end game?

    The absolute injustice! :/

    Oh, and before they start crying at me, if i resub for TBC, its ONLY to reroll my favorite wow character of all time, my (TBC... exclusive to be clear) resto shaman spacegoat. I wont be buying a boost. My rogue spent enough time in shattrath spamming trade for tanks and heals in 2006 to know its the worst course of action (boost or no boost).

    Random point, i remember my spacegoat making a fortune going dual gathering (before eventually switching to engineering). Now that the meta exists (leatherworking), i guess she's gonna have to be a skinner/miner. God, i hate metas (and love them because my level 20 resto shammy in pre patch gets to grind all the zones for drums that tier 3 naxx cleared neckbeards cant be bothered to farm).

    ETA2: buying carries (in heroic/mythic raids and pvp) is a nebulous grey area. I genuinely think its pay to win, but pay2win is a very specific term related to very specific game design (and other players will endlessly bring this definition up to invalidate your info despite it being defacto pay to win if not de jure). So we need a new term to define this.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-03-30 at 11:40 AM. Reason: all kinds of edits

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    Im kinda annoyed by the classic players losing their mind over a boost that puts you 2 levels behind in garbo gear, with no gold reserves, calling it pay to win. Its pay to maybe kill some boars and get an upgrade putting you about 80% behind players who are in tier 3... is it even 80% behind? Maybe 800% behind (since i recall having a few zg items and the original prepatch allowing me to purchase decent high warlord weapons) i never replaced them until around 63ish... tier THREE? And all that gold?

    The absolute injustice! :/

    Oh, and before they start crying at me, if i resub for TBC, its ONLY going to be to reroll my favorite wow character of all time, my resto shaman spacegoat. I wont be buying a boost. My rogue spent enough time in shattrath spamming trade for tanks and heals in 2006 to know its the worst course of action (boost or no boost).
    Apparently winning the game = Reaching level 58. That's good news really, then you won't have to catch up to those that have been 60 for two years and you won't have to go to outland and level to 70, you've already won.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by keelr View Post
    Why exactly?
    More grinds await you in TBC.

    At least be honest enough to say that you don't want to spend time leveling, rather than hiding behind "i don't have the time", because people that don't have the time to level a character will struggle to get a footing in TBC's endgame anyway.

  10. #310
    The thing that pisses me off the most is the typical WoW-player syndrome:

    "My class is so complicated yet sucks, while the rest are overpowered and piss easy!"

    Yeah, right...

    And what's worse - good luck explaining to these people how they lack enough experience and knowledge to properly judge classes. Because in their own eyes, they are the wunderkinds of WoW.

  11. #311
    Go play Retail/Classic.

    It's such a stupid "argument" to "end the discussion". People acting that TBC belongs to them and other can't even talk about it. Pisses me off quite a bit.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Lets help you out a little. You are at the start line of a 70 lap race. Just as the lights go green, someone pays race control $60 and is instantly on lap 58. You are saying "they.do.not.gain.an.advantage". This is how you sound. This is what you are saying.

    Your argument is "no, its not an advantage, because there are many races in the season, so it doesnt count".

    You are welcome to argue that it is not a game breaking advantage, or that you personally dont consider it a very large advantage - but to say it is not an advantage is just naive.

    If you don't like that analogy, how about this one: You turn up on race day, to a track everyone has driven on hundreds of times. You bust your ass for a few days through qualifying, trying to get that very important poll position, then someone wanders up to race control, hands them $60, and they are gifted poll position. They can still get in as much testing as they want, but on race day, there is nothing you can do - they have poll position.
    It’s not a race. There’s no race. Me getting to level 58 before you means nothing. I didn’t beat you, because we aren’t in a competition.

    Any competition in wow is based upon people at the same level or cooperative versus the game.
    Last edited by Bodakane; 2021-03-30 at 11:56 AM.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Apparently winning the game = Reaching level 58. That's good news really, then you won't have to catch up to those that have been 60 for two years and you won't have to go to outland and level to 70, you've already won.
    Hang on! Youre telling me i wont even have to play the expansion and i win! In my questing blues? Well thats clearly pay2win! Why are we even discussing this?

    Dude... (person youre arguing against), dude... im a level 58 rogue. Do you even remember what happens to a level 58 rogue around level 60 pathing mobs with a huge aggro radius? This is pay2respawn. Maybe pay2vanish if its not on cooldown. Maybe then pay2checkforpathingmobsinstealthinsheerterroratapotentialcorpserun.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-03-30 at 11:56 AM. Reason: "potential"

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by keelr View Post
    expect you can't buy arenas boost in the blizzard store.
    I mean, you can buy gold to then buy a boost.

    There's not a single thing in this game that you can't buy with real money, though it's not always directly.

  15. #315
    Stood in the Fire keelr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I mean, you can buy gold to then buy a boost.

    There's not a single thing in this game that you can't buy with real money, though it's not always directly.
    This way every game is P2W since i can just pay for someone to play my cs:go account etc.

  16. #316
    Pay 2 win is a shit term that applies to very specific games (where you literally pay the devs for an advantage in game). But wow is a nebulous grey area. Paying for carries is weird. Its SUPER MMO in that you have to give a player a bunch of gold for said carry (or maybe even real life currency you naughty boost sites that have been around since my bestie decided that he hated leveling in vanilla and paid a site to boost him to 60 - who then jacked his card about 2 years later). This isnt Pay2win per se, you gain no advantage over the hardcore playerbase. But its pay to something. Pay2Boost? Kinda feels too limiting. Pay2advantage... we're kind of getting closer... I genuinely dont know what this is. It sucks though. But i suck, so i want all sucky players to solidarnosci with me.

    It still feels like its cheating a bit though. I dont know how to describe it. And im in awe at devs who have put me in this position of confusion. I mean, its basically gaining an in-game advantage, right? We know that, right? They are using real world money to buy tokens converting to in game gold, paid into balances used for blizzard credit... you cant transfer this into cash in any way? Its just blizzard shop bs? Theres no chargeback system or balance refund available? Its like a store discount system? Honestly, i havent looked into the loopholes. So im assuming that the only way to transfer that blizzard balance is through blizzard products. So its not... pay2win. But its super weird (or super nebulous), right? Its pay2Kotics3rdyacht?

    Let me simplify it: Pay2win: You give the devs direct cash. You get an in-game advantage.
    Pay2Kotic: You buy a token (giving the devs direct cash), someone buys the token, you get an in game currency, you then use that currency in the in game market to buy a carry, that garners you an advantage (we've satisfied half the argument, well, maybe two thirds, since blizzard also have their cash, but now we have a middle-man)). That person then needs to turn that in game currency into actual real direct material cash. If they can do this, the loop is complete. If they cant, despite everyone (you, blizzard and the middle man garnering an explicit advantage) its not pay2win, but pay2kotic. Which is pay2win with a single extra step. But also not, because the middle man cant redeem that service into physical payment...

    Bernie sanders needs to be on this (he doesnt). But what advantage in or out of game are the third party garnering from this shoddy deal? Then we can understand what this even is, (then we can name it and cast it back into hell where it belongs).
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-03-30 at 12:35 PM. Reason: nebulosity and demonology

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    The thing that pisses me off the most is the typical WoW-player syndrome:

    "My class is so complicated yet sucks, while the rest are overpowered and piss easy!"

    Yeah, right...

    And what's worse - good luck explaining to these people how they lack enough experience and knowledge to properly judge classes. Because in their own eyes, they are the wunderkinds of WoW.
    As somebody who mains a Havoc DH since Legion, I feel this so much it hurts.

  18. #318
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    This thread is about opinions/arguments that annoy people, not specifically about boosting. It's fine for that to be someone choice of annoying opinion, but let's drop the rolling and derailing argument about whether boosting constitutes Pay-to-Win in WoW.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  19. #319
    Bloodsail Admiral Alkizon's Avatar
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    Red face

    Perhaps I'll look a little more "freaky" for this thread in general, but still... "characters' appearance can be on toggle in graphics settings - it's just cosmetics and nobody really cares about it". Those who're more or less familiar with my work here, knows what this all is about
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2021-03-30 at 04:15 PM.
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  20. #320
    X is fine because people will do it anyway unless Blizzard enforces their rule, which they won't.

    This is particularly applicable to the WoW Token. It's a friggin' disaster, people are buying gold then buying boosts and the communities are many of them likely flipping that gold for money to keep operations going.

    The whole thing should be stopped immediately, but it just isn't happening.

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