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  1. #101
    Honestly I don't think SL went wrong. It just is taking to long. A lot of these m+ issues, raid issues, pvp issues are always around. Its just when a new patch comes out every 3-4 months people aren't sitting around with their heads knocking on the bottom of their skill cap for long enough for it to matter. Because the new thing comes out, the item level bump goes out, and people just go on doing things on their own level of content for a while until things start to itch and a patch drops again sometime shortly afterwards. Since the first patch is going to be roughly (give or take) 6 months in that is occurring a lot right now.

  2. #102
    Herald of the Titans Baine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    The next world quest I do will be the first I’ve done in months, but... I’ve never understood world quests. Why are they fun?
    As someone who only do world quests (and covenant stuff), I don't do them because they are that much fun. I do them because I can kill stuff with my characters. And because of the gold reward from the daily calling.

  3. #103
    If they kill off Kel'thuzad as a mid-tier random raid boss I think they'll have executed the last of my shits to give about Warcraft lore with it. He's seriously one of the most important lore characters still alive (so to speak), unceremoniously dropping him in the middle of a raid as a random boss would be the biggest "fuck you" to people who wanted him to return.

    As far as raids...yeah I agree, it's been something that's driven me away from raids a lot lately. Antorus was the last raid I seriously did and I mainly enjoyed it because it wasn't an ugly dank shitty cave, and even then I'd just prefer something with a bit of a brighter theme to it, visually speaking. I'm just a little tired of dark poorly lit evil shitholes tbh, it feels like they just don't have any other ideas anymore.
    If you reply to me with a full essay I'm probably not going to bother reading it, sorry.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    If they kill off Kel'thuzad as a mid-tier random raid boss I think they'll have executed the last of my shits to give about Warcraft lore with it. He's seriously one of the most important lore characters still alive (so to speak), unceremoniously dropping him in the middle of a raid as a random boss would be the biggest "fuck you" to people who wanted him to return.

    As far as raids...yeah I agree, it's been something that's driven me away from raids a lot lately. Antorus was the last raid I seriously did and I mainly enjoyed it because it wasn't an ugly dank shitty cave, and even then I'd just prefer something with a bit of a brighter theme to it, visually speaking. I'm just a little tired of dark poorly lit evil shitholes tbh, it feels like they just don't have any other ideas anymore.
    Hate to be the bearer of bad news but KT is going to be a boss in the next raid, so he's most likely going to die.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by baddog66 View Post
    Punishing time gates are all over this expansion. I thought about coming back until I read that I would have no chance of getting anywhere without a whole heap of pain in PVP and rejection in group finder. Soul ash is another thing that is literally time gated to keep that subscription going. Every legendary is now several weeks to attain the ash for? You get the jest it's all so absurd and ridiculous yet here we are in 2021. Adding that the world quest in SL make me want to go back and help turtles make it to the water all day every day instead LOL.
    Another playing making judgements on the game without actually playing the game? Everything you have said is wrong. 100 percent wrong.

    I have got my 6th alt to 60 and in the first 5 hours I have completed my campaign, done LFR last boss, got over 1400 ash (you need 1250 for a legendary) and completed 1 mythic plus for a vault reward. I did it all on my own. It is now ilvl 194.

    Next week I will do prob 3 or 4 mythic plus, prob doing up to a 7, do the Torghast twice, do a normal raid pug and that is it. It will be about ilvl 200 or so at the next vault and I will just continue from there, upping the key difficulty as I go and replacing normal with heroic.

    No PvP. No rejection for groups. No hassel. I've done it 4 other times and it is easy. All my other guys are between 210 and 226 ilvl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    Answering to you since you were the first too hook themselves into that one, ignoring the entire rest of the argument in their struggle to defend Shadowlands? Im obviously exeggerating because i can not be arsed, as evident by "or whatever". That does not change what little reward that is. And if all you guys can say to defend it is an "UHM ACTSHUALLY" you sort of miss the point. Nothing personal.
    This is a weird way to apologize for being wrong. Not only are you wrong about the rewards you are wrong about it taking 25 mins. At worst these are 10 min quests, mostly 3 min quests. I don't think anyone has worked out what you were actually doing for your 6 x 5 anima pieces but it's pretty rude to come back and attack people who were making sure you were getting the correct information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Kel'Thuzad? Was sent by the Jailer to conquer Maldraxxus, couldn't do it, gets pulled into to maw again.
    You sure about this? From what I understood the guy reincarnated in Maldraxxus, made his way up the ladder, then started his plan to conquer Maldraxxus for whatever strong force he felt in the Maw (The Jailer). He was not SENT there by The Jailer, if I recall correctly.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I mean, that's similar to previous expansions.

    Back then once you maxed out your reps, there was no particular reason to do WQs anymore other than AP, and removing the AP grind is an unambiguously good change. Once you cap your itemlvl and rep, you can skip WQs.

    Torghast sucks, but Island Adventures sucked more, because the AP grind kept us doing them waaaay past the point where we stopped having fun. Once you've got your legendaries done you can skip Torghast.
    I don't think "Eventually, you get to stop playing the game!" is a great selling point
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  8. #108
    and we are going to have this for at least 2 more months.
    zug zug

    what is it paladin, one zug is not enough for ya?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfNone View Post
    lore should be voluntary to the game. not obligatory.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    I don't think "Eventually, you get to stop playing the game!" is a great selling point
    ....to a good chunk of folks here it is.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    ....to a good chunk of folks here it is.
    Idk, if I was Blizz I would be somewhat worried about having a sizeable amount of my s... um, fervent fans telling others to go play other games or that are "bad" and should Git Gud™ if they want to get anywhere. But that's just me
    Last edited by Soon-TM; 2021-04-06 at 05:41 PM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Another playing making judgements on the game without actually playing the game? Everything you have said is wrong. 100 percent wrong.

    I have got my 6th alt to 60 and in the first 5 hours I have completed my campaign, done LFR last boss, got over 1400 ash (you need 1250 for a legendary) and completed 1 mythic plus for a vault reward. I did it all on my own. It is now ilvl 194.

    Next week I will do prob 3 or 4 mythic plus, prob doing up to a 7, do the Torghast twice, do a normal raid pug and that is it. It will be about ilvl 200 or so at the next vault and I will just continue from there, upping the key difficulty as I go and replacing normal with heroic.

    No PvP. No rejection for groups. No hassel. I've done it 4 other times and it is easy. All my other guys are between 210 and 226 ilvl.

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    This is a weird way to apologize for being wrong. Not only are you wrong about the rewards you are wrong about it taking 25 mins. At worst these are 10 min quests, mostly 3 min quests. I don't think anyone has worked out what you were actually doing for your 6 x 5 anima pieces but it's pretty rude to come back and attack people who were making sure you were getting the correct information.
    Why are you all so desperately jerking off to that? I know you pissy little fanboys go off on tangents regularly, but do you really think this gets you anywhere?
    If you are offended by something i said, im probably at least 45% sorry about it and there is a 3% Chance it was not on purpose!

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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    I don't think "Eventually, you get to stop playing the game!" is a great selling point
    It's not great, but a marked improvement from being forced to grind AP.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    It's not great, but a marked improvement from being forced to grind AP.
    You weren't "forced" to grind AP, unless you were in mythic progression. You had all the AP you could ever need by just running emissaries, which frankly took half (or even less, in my experience) as long as they do in SL. I got AotC Uldir without even stepping foot in those crappy islands, aside from two or three times which were enough to convince me that IEs indeed sucked ass.

  14. #114
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    [Generic SL WQ]

    Stage 1) Kill 20 mobs, then..surprise!
    Stage 2) Arcade mini-game, then...surprise!
    Stage 3) Kill elite mob, then...surprise!
    Stage 4) Collect items, then...surprise!
    Stage 5) Escort quest.

    Reward: 90 anima. Enjoy!
    not a single shadowlands world quest has those stages come on man...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Well, i disagree with that. xD

    World quests force me into far more travel time across the zone (even across multiple zones depending on what i am doing) and take longer to complete. Daily quests tend to be contained to a hub that minimizes travel time.
    Travel time = boredom. At least to me. The more time i spend traveling, the more time i have to think i am bored and question why i am playing the game.
    This sounds like someone literally never did the trial of champions dailies...
    "alright northern icecrown? head to crystalsong, howling fjord, borean tundra, and storm peaks, then come back!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    The fact they think their game is still worth $21 CAD a month is what baffles me. There is just no value there anymore based on the content provided alone. They expect us to pay more now than ever to play a single game that is essentially a second job for many to stay relevant to the content. Activision-Blizzard should grant access to all the battle.net titles for that fee and it would actually be closer to a good value. I quit playing back in January and haven't looked back, played WoW since 2005.
    Its actually less then ever, as the price has never been adjusted for inflation...
    so the fact it does not cost more per month is whats surprising. and also yeah its less then ever, not more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    @John Croquette it also doesn't help that the # of WQs has gone significantly down since the days of Legion. I remember reading somewhere (I think it was Wowhead) that Stormheim alone had almost as many WQs as all 4 SL zones put together.
    100% false, you can literally look right now and compare, as they have removed no world quests from legion.


    10 if we include world boss.


    26 if we include world boss (already did world boss so it does not show up here)


    Shadowlands has 250% more world quests then stormheim, so safe to say, there is never, and never has been a point where that was true.


    For reference here is all the world quests in legion. but this includes world quests added in 7.1 and in 7.2 so its not a fair comparison.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Why am i kidding? I said it right there. Daily quests are usually contained to smaller areas.
    You travel way more with world quests, they are spread across the whole zone.


    Well designed, daily hubs are great fun. As you do them, you learn to optimise your route and the final turn in is very satisfying.

    Why are you complaining about a quest log? You can untrack old quests. No one is saying you must do 10 quests daily or whatever you are imagining. 3, just like the WQ callings.
    Though, dailies are more easily expanded without increasing travel time massively.

    For example, FFxiv has the beast tribe dailies in SB. The ones in Il Mheg are amazing. You complete all 3 quests in like 5 minutes.
    SWTOR has a different takes which i like. I can think of the Czerka hub. Theres like 5 of them in a contained area. You descend the facility as you kill and click stuff on the way and end in a solo instance mini-boss.
    Well designed dailies can tell a story. WQ's are disjointed, slow and have long travel time between them. They are a chore and difficult to optimise a route for cause they aren't always up.

    I don't know what you think of when we are talking about dailies, but it seems to be something different.
    In WoW i can think of Skettis and the Netherwing as good hubs that told a story and unlocked cool rewards.
    Unfortunely, WoW hasn't done good quest hubs in years.

    But, make no mistake. Travel time is way worse for WQ's. I wont accept a challenge on that cause it's just not true.
    This is entirely and overwhelming false, please stop spreading lies. dailies have always been spread over a large area. yes in some cases 1 single daily hub will be over one small area, but when you take into account the many locations of dailies... it is not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowho View Post
    You sure about this? From what I understood the guy reincarnated in Maldraxxus, made his way up the ladder, then started his plan to conquer Maldraxxus for whatever strong force he felt in the Maw (The Jailer). He was not SENT there by The Jailer, if I recall correctly.
    You are correct, he went to maldraxxus to cause havoc but ended up being recruited by the jailor. He did not go to maldraxxus BECAUSE of the jailor.
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2021-04-06 at 07:39 PM.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    not a single shadowlands world quest has those stages come on man...

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    This sounds like someone literally never did the trial of champions dailies...
    "alright northern icecrown? head to crystalsong, howling fjord, borean tundra, and storm peaks, then come back!"

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    Its actually less then ever, as the price has never been adjusted for inflation...
    so the fact it does not cost more per month is whats surprising. and also yeah its less then ever, not more.

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    100% false, you can literally look right now and compare, as they have removed no world quests from legion.


    10 if we include world boss.


    26 if we include world boss (already did world boss so it does not show up here)


    Shadowlands has 250% more world quests then stormheim, so safe to say, there is never, and never has been a point where that was true.


    For reference here is all the world quests in legion. but this includes world quests added in 7.1 and in 7.2 so its not a fair comparison.


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    This is entirely and overwhelming false, please stop spreading lies. dailies have always been spread over a large area. yes in some cases 1 single daily hub will be over one small area, but when you take into account the many locations of dailies... it is not.

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    You are correct, he went to maldraxxus to cause havoc but ended up being recruited by the jailor. He did not go to maldraxxus BECAUSE of the jailor.
    We pay $21 CAD to play WoW that is more than every other subscrption service including gamepass in Canada, it used to be $16 CAD, minimum wage in the east coast here is $13 so do the math, it is going up in places. So I decided to go back to pservers.
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  16. #116
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    We pay $21 CAD to play WoW that is more than every other subscrption service including gamepass in Canada, it used to be $16 CAD, minimum wage in the east coast here is $13 so do the math, it is going up in places. So I decided to go back to pservers.
    1. you didnt need to qoute the entire thing for 1 sentence
    2. 2007 1$ CAD=1.06 USD 2020 1$ CAD=0.70 USD
    this is why it used to be 16$ CAD but now is 21$ CAD

    Especially since a monthly sub IS NOT 21$ CAD

    Its 18.99
    But i guess lying is second nature to pserver players.

    also its fucking hilarious, "min wage here is 13$" so by your numbers it takes 2 hours of work to buy a month long sub.
    Even if your number was correct it would still be equal to US with their 7.50 min wage and a 15$ sub fee, meaning 2 hours exactly to earn a month of sub time. (And yes taxes exist, meaning in canada you can buy a sub with 2 hours of work, but US you cant)

    So get over yourself, and stop lying.
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2021-04-06 at 09:41 PM.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by LauraHydra1 View Post
    But right now, the game just isn't fun to play.
    Granted the game has not been even remotely fun to play for me since the end of Legion to be honest. But even then it was far less fun then I had from Wrath (when I started) to WoD. Anything is better then BFA though, Battle For Abortion/Abomination was just the worst iteration of the game I've ever experienced.
    Last edited by SerratedEdge252; 2021-04-06 at 09:54 PM.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    not a single shadowlands world quest has those stages come on man...

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    This sounds like someone literally never did the trial of champions dailies...
    "alright northern icecrown? head to crystalsong, howling fjord, borean tundra, and storm peaks, then come back!"

    - - - Updated - - -



    Its actually less then ever, as the price has never been adjusted for inflation...
    so the fact it does not cost more per month is whats surprising. and also yeah its less then ever, not more.

    - - - Updated - - -



    100% false, you can literally look right now and compare, as they have removed no world quests from legion.


    10 if we include world boss.


    26 if we include world boss (already did world boss so it does not show up here)


    Shadowlands has 250% more world quests then stormheim, so safe to say, there is never, and never has been a point where that was true.


    For reference here is all the world quests in legion. but this includes world quests added in 7.1 and in 7.2 so its not a fair comparison.


    - - - Updated - - -



    This is entirely and overwhelming false, please stop spreading lies. dailies have always been spread over a large area. yes in some cases 1 single daily hub will be over one small area, but when you take into account the many locations of dailies... it is not.

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    You are correct, he went to maldraxxus to cause havoc but ended up being recruited by the jailor. He did not go to maldraxxus BECAUSE of the jailor.
    Thank you for butting into the conversation, cause you'd otherwise know that i was talking about well designed daily hubs. Not your worst case scenario misrepresentation.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Of course the in-game community is dead and its a massive problem and torghast is bad and the maw zone is terrible. Let's set those aside. Other issues to me.

    1. World Quests got completely destroyed. People whined about them were they were perfectly fine and now they are ruined.
    2. Lots of mogs but almost ALL of them are ugly which kills the desire to collect them. I think every single mog set locked behind covenant rep is ugly.
    3. badge bookkeeping 1000% sucks compared to WF/TF. Another step backwards.
    4. raid settings are getting extremely repetitive with almost every single one of them in dark, dank caves or antiseptic buildings. We need more varied raid settings. On a beach, on a snow capped mountain or snowy woods, forests, etc.
    5. almost all of the characters in SL are constipated and wooden. I don't care about the first ones. I don't care about Zovaal. They spew out these bland, boring slow-witted diatribes that put me to sleep. Its a complete disaster. They are as horribly written and acted like characters from the Star Wars prequels. Characters like Baine, Anduin, the Winter Queen, Zovaal, the Primus all fit right in with Qui-Gon, Anakin, Padme, etc. Even Sire Denathrius is more about just spewing boring diatribes out his mouth than anything (I don't know why they praise him).
    6. Looks like they will throw away KelThuzad as a minor miniboss instead of actually doing something with the buildup he's had over the years. Another waste. That's a billboard advertisement to not get invested into the new characters in SL.
    1. Agreed.
    2. Subjective - and disagree.
    3. There's nothing worse than WF/TF really.
    4. Great point of view, never though about it this way, but I'm with you on that. I'd totally love to take a break from dark themes and get into some colorful and jaw-dropping places in PvE content overall (dungeons/raids).
    5 + 6. There was a lot of potential for these characters, but again - they try to fit as much story as possible into a 3 (or now possibly even 2) - patch expansion, so it gets muddy and unclear pretty quickly. Bolvar, Sylvanas + Anduin, covenant leaders, Jailer + Oribos - and that's enough. Just because Shadowlands open possibilities for the return of big names, it doesn't mean it's fun to do so. I don't feel like the return of both KT's - Kael'thas and Kel'thuzad - has been earned and thus rewarding. It's just cliche, not to mention how poorly they emphasized on the nature of both characters - ugh.

    I was happy for the Jailer to become a new, fun villian. But he's so cartonish, and he's motives are so philosophical, that it's not enjoyable in a MMORPG.

  20. #120
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Thank you for butting into the conversation, cause you'd otherwise know that i was talking about well designed daily hubs. Not your worst case scenario misrepresentation.
    "Well designed daily hubs" so none of them? Cause no expansion had ALL of their dailies in one place. They all were based in different places in different zones.
    And every expansion had atleast 1 rep which there dailies required you to travel entirely cross continent.

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