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  1. #1

    where SL goes wrong to me (leaving out social issues)

    Of course the in-game community is dead and its a massive problem and torghast is bad and the maw zone is terrible. Let's set those aside. Other issues to me.

    1. World Quests got completely destroyed. People whined about them were they were perfectly fine and now they are ruined.
    2. Lots of mogs but almost ALL of them are ugly which kills the desire to collect them. I think every single mog set locked behind covenant rep is ugly.
    3. badge bookkeeping 1000% sucks compared to WF/TF. Another step backwards.
    4. raid settings are getting extremely repetitive with almost every single one of them in dark, dank caves or antiseptic buildings. We need more varied raid settings. On a beach, on a snow capped mountain or snowy woods, forests, etc.
    5. almost all of the characters in SL are constipated and wooden. I don't care about the first ones. I don't care about Zovaal. They spew out these bland, boring slow-witted diatribes that put me to sleep. Its a complete disaster. They are as horribly written and acted like characters from the Star Wars prequels. Characters like Baine, Anduin, the Winter Queen, Zovaal, the Primus all fit right in with Qui-Gon, Anakin, Padme, etc. Even Sire Denathrius is more about just spewing boring diatribes out his mouth than anything (I don't know why they praise him).
    6. Looks like they will throw away KelThuzad as a minor miniboss instead of actually doing something with the buildup he's had over the years. Another waste. That's a billboard advertisement to not get invested into the new characters in SL.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  2. #2
    I really do HATE world quests in Shadowlands. They take for-frickin-ever.

    I really, really, miss the whistle. Without flying it was worth a metric ton of QoL.

    Anima gains are waaaaaaayyy too low. I still haven't maxed out my 9.0 covenant and I won't do it in the next couple of months either. I refuse to grind anima in awful WQs, and now that I maxed all the reps to exalted I'm not even doing callings anymore. That's a major part of the expansion I'm not experiencing. This should be have been tuned to finish before the player hits max reps everywhere. Seriously, anima rewards could be multiplied by 5 and that would be great. They're not just a bit under, they're WAAAY too low.

    And finally, there's a ton of story locked behind covenants that most players will never experience, because the penalties and opportunity costs for switching are so high. I hear about Kael'thas, Kel'thuzad, Uther, etc, and I have no clue what the hell anyone is talking about. I watched the 9.1 cinematic and I have no clue who that dude in chains was who stared at Anduin. Sure I could read spoilers on Wowhead or whatever, but screw that. They should allow players to join all four covenants but pick one as primary for abilities/dailies/adventures/etc.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2021-03-29 at 03:11 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I really do HATE world quests in Shadowlands. They take for-frickin-ever.

    I really, really, miss the whistle. Without flying it was worth a metric ton of QoL.

    Anima gains are waaaaaaayyy too low. I still haven't maxed out my 9.0 covenant and I won't do it in the next couple of months either. I refuse to grind anima in awful WQs, and now that I maxed all the reps to exalted I'm not even doing callings anymore. That's a major part of the expansion I'm not experiencing. This should be have been tuned to finish before the player hits max reps everywhere. Seriously, anima rewards could be multiplied by 5 and that would be great. They're not just a bit under, they're WAAAY too low.

    And finally, there's a ton of story locked behind covenants that most players will never experience, because the penalties and opportunity costs for switching are so high. I hear about Kael'thas, Kel'thuzad, Uther, etc, and I have no clue what the hell anyone is talking about. I watched the 9.1 cinematic and I have no clue who that dude in chains was who stared at Anduin. Sure I could read spoilers on Wowhead or whatever, but screw that. They should allow players to join all four covenants but pick one as primary for abilities/dailies/adventures/etc.
    Covenant locking as a whole is braindead.

  4. #4
    1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I really do HATE world quests in Shadowlands. They take for-frickin-ever. I really, really, miss the whistle. Without flying it was worth a metric ton of QoL.
    I stopped reading just to agree to this so hard. For 5x6 Anima or whatever i don't want to beat up random dudes for like 20 to 25 minutes. That's not fun and its not rewarding, but the majority of what the quests are. I also don't feel the thing i had in BfA or Legion where it was "Okay, here i have to kill 20 things, but here i get to ride a Dragon and here is some random pseudo-elite i can quickly dispatch of - thats done quickly. I can do that between the two 20 things quests.". No, its 90% of the time filling an endless bar or killing a lot of things. I will admit this might be a personal problem, but i now rather want to do those with my tank where i can just pull than with my DPS and certainly rather than with my healers.

    (Edit: Since a bunch of Fanboys took issues with that; Yea, its more 70 up to 140 Anima, not 36 or whatever. Its still not enough of a reward, unless you are a rat in a maze. If you are so desperate to catch one for Actiblizz, im just going to insult you for it so if this is your reason to quote me; Probably don't.)

    2. I don't feel there is tons of mogs actually. There is the boring shite from the dungeons and mythic+, there is the covenant stuff which is endlessly content locked - which i really dont give a shit about ever since i had to change the covenant i WANTED for the covenant my class NEEDS DESPERATELY TO PERFORM (and fuck everyone who claims you won't notice until mythic; I raid heroic and mythic dungeons and you sure as fuck notice it there) and i don't even get the raid set together anymore due to how poorly the loot drops and how badly its spread. I got a half complete Normal set and a half complete Heroic set and since my raid went bull rushing the moment we had the head 4 times i will NEVER get the heroic set complete either and my only chance to get the normal set is to find another raid on top. Wtf Blizzard?

    3. I dont even know what half of them are for at this point... Like... it feels like certain stuff is just there to be collected because they got one use and thats it. Remember when WotLK and Cata had one badge type each tier and you got items for that? I do... BLizzard does too but just ignores it and we get this shit. Its like Blizzard got tired of everyone asking for emblems and just throws stuff at us now so we shut up.
    Last edited by SoundOfGuns; 2021-04-06 at 05:37 PM.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    1.


    I stopped reading just to agree to this so hard. For 5x6 Anima or whatever i don't want to beat up random dudes for like 20 to 25 minutes. That's not fun and its not rewarding, but the majority of what the quests are. I also don't feel the thing i had in BfA or Legion where it was "Okay, here i have to kill 20 things, but here i get to ride a Dragon and here is some random pseudo-elite i can quickly dispatch of - thats done quickly. I can do that between the two 20 things quests.". No, its 90% of the time filling an endless bar or killing a lot of things. I will admit this might be a personal problem, but i now rather want to do those with my tank where i can just pull than with my DPS and certainly rather than with my healers.

    2. I don't feel there is tons of mogs actually. There is the boring shite from the dungeons and mythic+, there is the covenant stuff which is endlessly content locked - which i really dont give a shit about ever since i had to change the covenant i WANTED for the covenant my class NEEDS DESPERATELY TO PERFORM (and fuck everyone who claims you won't notice until mythic; I raid heroic and mythic dungeons and you sure as fuck notice it there) and i don't even get the raid set together anymore due to how poorly the loot drops and how badly its spread. I got a half complete Normal set and a half complete Heroic set and since my raid went bull rushing the moment we had the head 4 times i will NEVER get the heroic set complete either and my only chance to get the normal set is to find another raid on top. Wtf Blizzard?

    3. I dont even know what half of them are for at this point... Like... it feels like certain stuff is just there to be collected because they got one use and thats it. Remember when WotLK and Cata had one badge type each tier and you got items for that? I do... BLizzard does too but just ignores it and we get this shit. Its like Blizzard got tired of everyone asking for emblems and just throws stuff at us now so we shut up.
    The next world quest I do will be the first I’ve done in months, but... I’ve never understood world quests. Why are they fun?
    Every single wow player should always try to make their own groups. Then you'd just have thousands of groups in group finder, without a single applicant.

  6. #6
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    For 5x6 Anima or whatever i don't want to beat up random dudes for like 20 to 25 minutes. That's not fun and its not rewarding,
    Um... what? 30 anima? What world quests are you doing, considering the minimum amount they give is 35 anima, which is one single rare anima item. Anima WQs usually give around 2-3 of those, which totals 70/105 anima. Then there are WQs that give 4, which is 140 anima.

    But no WQ offers the green quality anima items, that give 5 anima.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
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  7. #7
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    I agree with everything OP has said. Just adding that I could put up with the boring Maw, even more boring Torghast, the disjointed, claustrophobia-inducing zones, the ugly dungeons and even uglier raid if the story was actually interesting.

    Alas, the story (so far) is nothing but a metric ton of retcons piled on top of each other, retcons that also devalue core elements of the Warcraft mythos - case in point: Maldraxxus. Remember the Scourge, with its horrific undead minions, its necromancers, its poisons and its ziggurats? Guess what, they were nothing but Maldraxxus LARP'ers. Hell, you can find even Nerubians there

    Furthermore, the overall plot feels way, waaaaay detached from the more traditional Warcraft settings, and the characters are formulaic and bland, starting with the Blue Man. The result are the dreaded eight words: "I don't care what happens to these people", which is even worse than BfA, if that's possible. BfA made me angry, but with SL... I cba to worry about anyone in the cast. I simply don't care about whether Sylvanas will be killed, imprisoned, redeemed or just gets to #$&@ the everliving crap out of the Golden Boi and have some pretty undead babies.
    Last edited by Soon-TM; 2021-03-29 at 04:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    As for the "hone your skills" argument that some are tossing around, fuck that. Most people want to have fun. They're not logging onto WoW, the video game, as a self-improvement project. That's a ridiculous notion and goes right along with the idea that the game is "work." If it's not 'play' then you're doing it wrong. Sadly this is a concept that the devs seem to have lost sight of in their quest to keep anyone and everyone busy.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    And finally, there's a ton of story locked behind covenants that most players will never experience, because the penalties and opportunity costs for switching are so high. I hear about Kael'thas, Kel'thuzad, Uther, etc, and I have no clue what the hell anyone is talking about. I watched the 9.1 cinematic and I have no clue who that dude in chains was who stared at Anduin. Sure I could read spoilers on Wowhead or whatever, but screw that. They should allow players to join all four covenants but pick one as primary for abilities/dailies/adventures/etc.
    I played through all 4 covenants and you don't miss much story.

    Uther? He got evil because he didn't want to forget his past life and then got good again because.... he didn't wanted to be evil anymore? Now he is somewhere meditating about his past life.
    Tyrande? Is probably/maybe/probably not dying because of the night warrior curse and after 3 quests we completely forget about that and fight some drust for the rest of the campaign.
    Kel Thusad? Was sent by the Jailer to conquer Maldraxxus, couldn't do it, gets pulled into to maw again.


    The quests for Necrolords overlap strongly with the quests of Kyrian and Venthyr, half of the quests are identical for Necrolords and Venthyr.

    Covenant quests could have been cool but they were lazy and boring imo.

  9. #9
    Shadowlands goes wrong for me when 100% of messages in trade chat is about boosting and 45 out of 62 Groups in raid finder (for HC) is boosting advertising.

  10. #10
    How is the badge system worst than TF/WF?
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    most of the rioters were racist black people with a personal hatred for white people, and it was those bigots who were in fact the primary force engaged in the anarchistic and lawless behavior in Charlottesville.

  11. #11
    Loa of Death Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    At least we have 'older' more interesting characters like Bwonsamdi, Vol'jin and even Bolvar, right? Also, I feel like some characters just do not fit into their Afterlives. Shouldn't Uther be in a Light-based realm, not one filled with Spirit Healers? Shouldn't Bwonsamdi be in a dark, midnight jungle full of dinosaurs, and even a shadowy swamp? Nope, blue fairy land for him. It clashes so much it's almost like he's on vacation, and that Ardenweald is where he's spending his time when he's not dealing with trolls. At least he didn't get shoved into green Scourge land or hellish Vampire land. I'll accept it, for now.

    I was so excited about this expansion, that I joined MMO Champion to talk about it. It really sucks

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, and the Maw/Torghast are awful, and literally put me to sleep lol

    Another day, another Deal....

  12. #12
    I liked the legion version of titanforging. Kept me motivated to do things.
    The 3 dh spec is increíble.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    1. World Quests got completely destroyed. People whined about them were they were perfectly fine and now they are ruined.
    Can stand behind this. Used to do way more WQs, now I only do few fun ones and PvP ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    2. Lots of mogs but almost ALL of them are ugly which kills the desire to collect them. I think every single mog set locked behind covenant rep is ugly.
    Highly subjective. All plate sets are awesome. Kyrian shoulders are meh for me, but head has a better plate variant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    3. badge bookkeeping 1000% sucks compared to WF/TF. Another step backwards.
    I would have kept TF, 8.2 TF was something I could get behind, but current valor system is ok too.

    The rest is highly subjective. Everything is too "major" for my taste. I would like some simple raids of "look, there is this dragon cave here" but not every can get behind that either.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Of course the in-game community is dead and its a massive problem and torghast is bad and the maw zone is terrible. Let's set those aside. Other issues to me.

    1. World Quests got completely destroyed. People whined about them were they were perfectly fine and now they are ruined.
    2. Lots of mogs but almost ALL of them are ugly which kills the desire to collect them. I think every single mog set locked behind covenant rep is ugly.
    3. badge bookkeeping 1000% sucks compared to WF/TF. Another step backwards.
    4. raid settings are getting extremely repetitive with almost every single one of them in dark, dank caves or antiseptic buildings. We need more varied raid settings. On a beach, on a snow capped mountain or snowy woods, forests, etc.
    5. almost all of the characters in SL are constipated and wooden. I don't care about the first ones. I don't care about Zovaal. They spew out these bland, boring slow-witted diatribes that put me to sleep. Its a complete disaster. They are as horribly written and acted like characters from the Star Wars prequels. Characters like Baine, Anduin, the Winter Queen, Zovaal, the Primus all fit right in with Qui-Gon, Anakin, Padme, etc. Even Sire Denathrius is more about just spewing boring diatribes out his mouth than anything (I don't know why they praise him).
    6. Looks like they will throw away KelThuzad as a minor miniboss instead of actually doing something with the buildup he's had over the years. Another waste. That's a billboard advertisement to not get invested into the new characters in SL.
    What do you think is good? What do you like to do?

    You've stated several things you dislike and you don't find fun. Another player might say raids suck but like Torghast. Do you as a player, have to like everything? I don't think so. Sounds like a monstrous task for developers. I like some things and dislike others, that's fine because I just don't do what I dislike.

    Point is, it's just personal opinions and quite frankly, impossible to deal with with the amount of players playing the game.
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  15. #15
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Can stand behind this. Used to do way more WQs, now I only do few fun ones and PvP ones.
    isn't that what they were going for though? in Legion and BfA you felt obligated to do every single world quest; because doing that would not only give you shitloads of AP, which boosted your performance, or you would get the Paragon chest quicker which gave you more AP. Now it's more relaxed; you literally don't have to do any world quests. The Calling system I think favours non world quests too - the only ones that require world quests are the "complete 3 with your trainee in X zone"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SoundOfGuns View Post
    I stopped reading just to agree to this so hard. For 5x6 Anima or whatever i don't want to beat up random dudes for like 20 to 25 minutes. That's not fun and its not rewarding, but the majority of what the quests are. I also don't feel the thing i had in BfA or Legion where it was "Okay, here i have to kill 20 things, but here i get to ride a Dragon and here is some random pseudo-elite i can quickly dispatch of - thats done quickly. I can do that between the two 20 things quests.". No, its 90% of the time filling an endless bar or killing a lot of things. I will admit this might be a personal problem, but i now rather want to do those with my tank where i can just pull than with my DPS and certainly rather than with my healers.
    you don't get 6x5 anima for anything outside of adventures, and that is boosted to 10-12x5 as you level up. world quests give between 35 and 140 anima. Personally, I only do the 105-140 anima and I get a steady amount a week - this week so far will be 6.5k

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    At least we have 'older' more interesting characters like Bwonsamdi, Vol'jin and even Bolvar, right? Also, I feel like some characters just do not fit into their Afterlives. Shouldn't Uther be in a Light-based realm, not one filled with Spirit Healers? Shouldn't Bwonsamdi be in a dark, midnight jungle full of dinosaurs, and even a shadowy swamp? Nope, blue fairy land for him. It clashes so much it's almost like he's on vacation, and that Ardenweald is where he's spending his time when he's not dealing with trolls. At least he didn't get shoved into green Scourge land or hellish Vampire land. I'll accept it, for now.
    They say that Uther had spent his life caring about others, so he was sent to Bastion for that. Its pretty logical. As for Bowmsandi, he's a Loaa, aka a wild god, and they all go to Ardenweald, no matter what they represent.

    What is weird for me is that the WoW lore characters - Kael, Draka, Vashj, Uther, Ysera, kept their original appearance, not one changed it. There was a talk about choosing what you would look like. But why do the rest of the NPCs look typical to the zone except for those? Did most of the Madraxxi choose to look like zombies? I know they create 'soldiers', but how about the souls sent there? This bugs me a lot and ruins the immersion in the otherwise pretty nice expansion (yes, there are lots of features I don't like, but I can easily ignore them, like I ignored islands and warfronts in bfa).

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    Yaaay. Learned a new word today. Diatribe=forceful and bitter verbal attack. Thanks OP. much appreciated

  18. #18
    I mean TF WAS super nice if you werent a Mythic raider where that gear actually matter to ensure your spot. Which was not the case for most people.

    However, ppl are easy to manipulate - they get brainwashed by big guilds for which anything RNG or any longtime grind is a detriment. Because of this, it was actually the majority who wanted it removed. Go see reactions at blizzcon when they say removing warforge and titanforge... everyone is so damn happy. People in small normal only and heroic only guildswere happy... and if you ask them why, most of them cant ever get to think "But was it bad for ME?". They repeat what they heard like "i want to be done gearing even though i was not able to get full bis since Wrath icc" or "but a heroic raider should not wield a Mythic ilvl weapon".
    All this is bs tbh esp since pvp how ensures most bis items. And somehow, this is no longer an issue for the same ppl, because big guilds are ok with sure non grind non rng sources .

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    isn't that what they were going for though? in Legion and BfA you felt obligated to do every single world quest; because doing that would not only give you shitloads of AP, which boosted your performance, or you would get the Paragon chest quicker which gave you more AP. Now it's more relaxed; you literally don't have to do any world quests. The Calling system I think favours non world quests too - the only ones that require world quests are the "complete 3 with your trainee in X zone"
    I think the issue with world quests isn't the reward (or lack of thereof), but rather that they are annoying AF for the most part. Someone invented dynamic objectives for WQs, someone else thought it was cool, so they did the usual Blizzard thing and went overboard with them. There's a DLC that captures my frustration with the new generation of WQs perfectly.

  20. #20
    Shadowlands got what people wanted. WQ that take more time, no real grind just the useless anima and no TF casual gearprogression but hard gearprogression walls and the gated valor system that ends bellow mythic raiding.

    If you dont like it, make sure you mention it on the youtube/twitch channel of each influencer that demanded this exact changes for everyone.

    Blizzard did what the "community" (=loudest influencers) wanted. If you dont like it, make some noise, let blizzard know you dont want this and make sure you ignore influencers as much as possible.

    A streamer or content creator is not interested in a game that works for casual players, they want GATED CONTENT and they want casual progression walls to get people away from playing the game. Its win:win, more viewers and more negative-content to publish.

    You should allways question their motivation. They earn more money if people dont play the game anymore, so every suggestion they do is for their own benefit and not for the game or the community itself.
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