dual spec would make TBC so much better

[Greyvax]

Dual spec should absolutely be one of the changes added.

The only people against it are the "muh nostalgia" masochists who love spamming in LFG for tanks/heals for hours.

[Ogarash]

Isn't the respecc cost like still 50g in TBC? Which is honestly no money at all by that point. So, while it's cumbersome it's not a big deal tbh. The WotLK version you still need to go to the trainer to change speccs so it's basically the same shit.

[keelr]

right now in classic all 5 of our priests raid disc so we can constantly power-infuse the mages so i don't really know what you mean. In TBC maybe its a different story but we're not there yet

But we are talking about duel-spec in tbc here

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ppl against dual-spec be like: why do you want dual spec, respec is just 50g, thats nothing
also them: yo bro, its a meaningful goldsink, you cant just get rid of that

[ZazuuPriest]

But we are talking about duel-spec in tbc here

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ppl against dual-spec be like: why do you want dual spec, respec is just 50g, thats nothing
also them: yo bro, its a meaningful goldsink, you cant just get rid of that

right i just didn't understand your reply then i guess. but i seem to be in agreeance with you that dual spec should be a thing. its a huge time sink to have to travel to a training to resepc and its only serves to hurt tanks and healers or people who want to pvp and pve.

[Procrustes]

I can't imagine how many people won't play because they can't play pvp and pve without mtx or farming long hours.

Farming long hours?
I have a disc/holy Priest PvE spec, and a Rogue PvP spec. When I need money, I just farm with the Rogue. And I am a casual player. How many people won’t have a second character in TBC, for farming gold?
It is the most convenient feature in the game. And still I am against it.
They could just make templates(?) so we have 2-3 specs saved and just had to pay a trainer to switch. And the action bars should be saved accordingly. That’s the QoL I would like to see.

[Bumkin]

Dual spec is a bigger game changer than you might have realized. It was the start of the need to make every single spec diversify itself from the class as a whole. It was also a HUGE step forward in terms of absolute min/maxing, which I think is a bad thing.

My recommendation would be to set up a dual spec light. You can visit a trainer to build a preset of two (or even more) specs. You are required to visit a trainer to swap between the different preset builds, but it saves you the trouble of having to manually put in every talent point and fix your action bars every single time you want to swap specs. I would say that this option should be free to save the specs, but you would have two options for payment. You can either pay per respec as you do now with the option to just respec into one of your preset builds, OR you can pay a large upfront and onetime fee that removes the cost of respeccing entirely for the future.

The first option would be for somebody who maybe wants to have a tank spec that they use once a week for a pug they run, while the second option would be for somebody who really enjoys doing multiple things. Maybe a healer main spec who wants to farm in the open world more effectively so they have a world farming spec and they swap back and forth throughout the day as they farm in the world, then farm some dungeons, then back to world farming, then they go to raid night.

Or the PvP player who also raids so they don't have to spend hundreds of gold a week respeccing multiple times per raid day. PvP during the day to swap to raid at night then back to PvP after raid then back to PvE again the next night.

But I think this is a pretty good compromise to get people into playing more than one role without the meta becoming swapping specs on every boss fight.

yes a different version of dual spec, not the one from retail where u can swap anytime, everywhere

something like: you can change ur spec only at the trainer, only 2 times a day, add a cooldown between spec changing so ppl will choose their timing carefully

a dual spec for pve'ers that wanna pvp, healers that wanna have a dps spec for farming, etc.

[erifwodahs]

yes a different version of dual spec, not the one from retail where u can swap anytime, everywhere

something like: you can change ur spec only at the trainer, only 2 times a day, add a cooldown between spec changing so ppl will choose their timing carefully

a dual spec for pve'ers that wanna pvp, healers that wanna have a dps spec for farming, etc.

I mean if they made it 10g and allowed to have pre-sets where you don't need to click 51 time every time you swap - I am fine with the trainers. Put on restrictions, but 50g is significant for new people, thats 3-4 daily quests and if u want swap back - thats your days income. Plus pre-sets would save some mistakes where you put a point where you shouldn't have and need to do it again.

[cparle87]

A lot of things would make TBC ”So much better”

But most people want #Nochanges or #Somechanges (Like paladin seals) but nothing too crazy

I wouldn't consider dual spec to be too crazy.

[Bumkin]

I mean if they made it 10g and allowed to have pre-sets where you don't need to click 51 time every time you swap - I am fine with the trainers. Put on restrictions, but 50g is significant for new people, thats 3-4 daily quests and if u want swap back - thats your days income. Plus pre-sets would save some mistakes where you put a point where you shouldn't have and need to do it again.

yes lowering the respec cost is a solution, make it 15g max cap, we'll have to deal with traveling to the trainer and adding the spells on bars

[keelr]

yes lowering the respec cost is a solution, make it 15g max cap, we'll have to deal with traveling to the trainer and adding the spells on bars

There is addon for the bar setup actually

[Kralljin]

yes lowering the respec cost is a solution, make it 15g max cap, we'll have to deal with traveling to the trainer and adding the spells on bars

You can't tell me with a straight face that in the hyperinflated economy that TBC will have that 50g is "too much".

Heck, new players won't even start at 50g per respec, the cost goes up with each respec and doesn't start at 50, remember?
They'll start at 1g, then goes up to 5, then 5 for each respec until you've reached 50g.
Meaning you can respec like 10 times before you even hit the full 50g.

In other words, new players or people who did not respec in quite some time won't reach 50g until a few weeks / months into TBC, by that point, you'll absolutely have the gold unless you deliberately chose to not interact with the economy at all, altough i then wish you good luck on getting enchants, gems & consumables.

[Mormegil]

I don't have any intention of playing TBC Classic so this is neither a "Classic sux" or "#nochanges" post, I'm just curious, at what point do acceptable changes start to become "no more changes, it's too much like retail"?

I see these posts cropping up on the MMO Champ front page and it just interests me. Which aspect of QoL change goes too far?

[Bumkin]

You can't tell me with a straight face that in the hyperinflated economy that TBC will have that 50g is "too much".

Heck, new players won't even start at 50g per respec, the cost goes up with each respec and doesn't start at 50, remember?
They'll start at 1g, then goes up to 5, then 5 for each respec until you've reached 50g.
Meaning you can respec like 10 times before you even hit the full 50g.

In other words, new players or people who did not respec in quite some time won't reach 50g until a few weeks / months into TBC, by that point, you'll absolutely have the gold unless you deliberately chose to not interact with the economy at all, altough i then wish you good luck on getting enchants, gems & consumables.

50g is alot for TBC, not everybody plays wow 12 hrs a day, not everybody has time for farming, also most players will want to respec on a daily basis, the community has changed alot since 2007, i was a pve'er back then, didnt care much about pvp, i was just using my pve spec to do arenas/bgs, but now u cant do that anymore,thats why the game must adapt

I don't have any intention of playing TBC Classic so this is neither a "Classic sux" or "#nochanges" post, I'm just curious, at what point do acceptable changes start to become "no more changes, it's too much like retail"?

I see these posts cropping up on the MMO Champ front page and it just interests me. Which aspect of QoL change goes too far?

LFR/LFG, transmog, personal loot, phasing while joining a party, this is what destroyed retail wow imo, but dual spec (with some modifications from retail) would not hurt the classic tbc experience

[shise]

I think dualspec is too intrusive of a change.

Not really. IT would simply bring more activity. A lot of us couldn´t be arsed to respec "yet again", so we´d skip that dungeon or pug... If We had DS, we´d keep doing dungeons.

[Kralljin]

50g is alot for TBC, not everybody plays wow 12 hrs a day, not everybody has time for farming, also most players will want to respec on a daily basis, the community has changed alot since 2007, i was a pve'er back then, didnt care much about pvp, i was just using my pve spec to do arenas/bgs, but now u cant do that anymore,thats why the game must adapt

You can make 100g/h in Classic already.
And we've yet to see the pitfalls of all those people that bought gold en masse dumping their gold into economy - which will sure as shit happen in TBC due to craftable items.
Which means that any fixed price will be even easier to pay off.

This one big strawman, if you are unable to bring up the time to farm at least 100g/week, then i can tell you respeccing will be the least of worries in TBC because even getting a full set of the blue PvP armor requires a lot of hours.
I implore you to look up many badges you need to even buy the basic PvP Items, then do the math on how long that will take.

Since this whole dual spec mostly concerns people that want to play both PvE and PvP, you also need to cough up the time for the attunements, grinding for craftable items as well as paying your consumables.

But paying 100g/week is suddenly the massive dealbreaker?
I call BS.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I am a pretty big nochange type because I want to play TBC and not SL in Outland but duel spec really isn't anything I would care to much about being in the game. I doubt it will happen though. It takes more effort to put it in than to not put it in. Pretty much the gold standard for Blizzard these days. Unless its something they can sell you in the shop. Either way they will get their quarter or two bump from TBC with or without it and that's all the care about in the end.

[Hctaz]

I mean if they made it 10g and allowed to have pre-sets where you don't need to click 51 time every time you swap - I am fine with the trainers. Put on restrictions, but 50g is significant for new people, thats 3-4 daily quests and if u want swap back - thats your days income. Plus pre-sets would save some mistakes where you put a point where you shouldn't have and need to do it again.

50G isn't as significant in TBC, but that's where the upfront cost would come into effect. I'd say charge a fee to lock in a build maybe just the normal 50g respec cost and then you could have a smaller cost to swap between the two since you're limiting yourself on how much you can change. Maybe 25g per swap, OR you have the option to pay 1k or more gold to remove the cost of swapping between your presets. You still pay to make a new preset, change a preset, or respec entirely as it currently works. So if you're somebody who swaps occasionally, you don't pay the 1k and just pay 25g per swap. If you're somebody who swaps multiple times per day every day then you pay 1k and you save money in the long term.

[Prag]

What is even the supposed downside to dual spec talents?

Change bad

[Procrustes]

What is even the supposed downside to dual spec talents?

Which one? The one that you can switch spec on the go, according to what you deal with?

If we are talking about going to a trainer and maybe a smaller fee, then it’s not a big deal in my opinion.

Many people consider TBC AND WotLK to be Classic expansions. For me Wrath, is closer to Retail, than to Vanilla. And (lots of) people ask for WotLK features, to bee implemented in TBC.

We are all Classic Heretics. We love the core of the game, but we dislike some element/s of it.

[Kaibhan]

I remember playing back in TBC this is really when we started clamoring for dual spec to be a thing. I see no real downside to adding it in.