Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    I have never paid 3% or over on my mortgage. 2.74% was the highest and right now rates are so ridiculously low, I'm kicking myself for renewing last year at 2.10%. My other place is variable at 1.81% as of December, I haven't looked at today's rate but its probably less.
    lol umm buy a house more than a few years ago?
    in 2002 mine was 6.5% on my first house. Right now my Ex owns the house and its in its third refi @ around 3%
    took a very long time from that point for rates to drop below 3%. Took a few economic crashes and a pandemic


    i was going off the standard base rate as of yesterday
    30-year fixed-rate 3.030% today.

    Could get in the 2's easy with high credit and a few points or something outside 30 year fixed, but we were talking 30 year and the lower rates could have additional cost upfront. I assumed at 3.5% down there was no money to buy down the rate


    was again going off averages. i mean you could haggle the landlord down too 25 dollars a month :P
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Great so my apt land is about 12 acers of open space vs my house of less than one after you discount the pool, shed, etc.
    Yah so i think my apt has it beat by a mile.

    -1 bedroom + 1 great room + 1 small office. i call it a wash since the sqft is about the same even though to get there i have to include the full basement including the back storage room and utility/wash/boiler room.

    We already set that it was roughly the same size.






    well there is still % of homes financed on a variable, the vast majority are on fixed so unless you have a major issue like the roof needing to be replaced and you have to refinance you are right they generally will not go up.

    Utilities are "sometimes" include. Like my heat is included as is water. I've hardly seen any aptartments without rent. They also mostly pay for garbage which @ my place was 75 dollars a month. Thanks to the pool the water was...well lets not include that mess cause not everyone has a pool.

    in my example i was already paying more for the house vs the apt before i even got to utilities and such.




    i work at an warehouse. nuff said on the supplies.
    You can find boxes anywhere, just go down to the local big box store (get the pun, lol?). Go out back and ask them if you can have the boxes.

    insurance on a uhall when my credit card and insurance already covers it? LOL umm why not just burn money?
    Also i would buy seperate insurance online as i do with all rentals for 8 dollars a day. great coverage for up to 35k no deductibles.

    Did you live in apartments before you owned houses? I mean did you really move that much? Seems a weird thing to focus on even if you moved every year that would be what 3-5 thousand over 30 years??

    Hell the gas/oil/repair in the rider mower over 30 years would offset the cost of moving :P



    Same can be said for your 100% increase in home value in such a short period of time.

    No its not all there but reality is what is left can be offest by what was left out of each scenario. It covered the majors.






    Yah i did not even get into the value of your time doing all that maintenance if you really wanted to add that you are looking at what 5-10-15 hours a week at your current salary x 52 weeks x 30 years.



    At the time i was making 32 dollars an hour. took me 3 hours to do my lawn, edge, blow on a good day. summer less, fall/spring more. Winter added blowing/shovling.
    3 hours a week x $32 x 52 weeks x 30 years = $147,760

    of course not everything was included in my calculations.... and who in their right mind would pay the lawn boy 32 dollars an hour right???

    - - - Updated - - -



    damn if i sold my house during the spikes of the 2000's i could have easly got 325k on my 171k house. did not do so well in the housing crash though.
    been a long recovery

    - - - Updated - - -



    Lets stop here for a second.

    400k 3.5% down, and only $2000 payment?

    @3% average mortgage rate this is what i come up with

    Mortgage Payment (P&I) $1,627
    Home Insurance $ 104
    Mortgage Insurance (PMI) $201
    Property Taxes $760
    2692

    Even at 2.5% loan i still come up with $2480

    So you are looking at 40-600 dollars more a month.
    Now of course you could live in a lower tax state i guess even though you mentioned CA so your taxes are probably worse than mine or on par.






    Childish scenario of the two major benchmarks?

    The two biggest investment vehicles and for which has the most money invested in relative to 401k, mutual funds, etc?

    i mean are you serious?

    if you really wanted silly
    You could have invested 8,000 into bitcoin in 2013 and have equity of $13,643,581.897
    i can list some stocks too if you want? Quite a number that historically have both kept up with real estate gains and beat them.

    I alreay showed in my own house it came no where near keeping up with the two benchmarks.


    BTW i like how you are assuming that every single house you invest in is going to return 100%. I also like how we went from a 2000 rental to you now renting the houses at 2700. But anywhoo based on everything i read the average real estate gain in this country is something very far south of your results. Its also a tad higher then my result as well.
    again you go with discounting amenities. pool is a money sink, granted, but private pool is a bfd. also, you do not need to get a place with a pool in a first place. apartments with pool acess either charge you extra for acess or cost more in a first place. when you said minus the bedroom, you didn't specify number of rooms, total.

    what kind of maintenance are you talking about that takes 10-15 hours a week??? that is exclusive to home ownership rather then renting? cleaning you do either way. trash you take out either way.

    right because anyone who ever moves has acess to a warehouse they are working at that they can just borrow supplies from.
    yes I buy separate insurance on a moving truck, because I do not want it to go on my personal car insurance. as I said - someone is an ass and your personal premiums go up. and hilarious part is.. you admit it yourself that you buy a separate insurance on a moving truck as well. you just failed to mention it in your previous post, so you are arguing with me over.. what exactly here? I've moved 4 times before we bought our house and moved for the last time. it wasn't once a year, but it was still an undertaking each and every time. and it was twice the amount you mentioned because not all of us are lucky with acess to a warehouse, and all that jazz. yeah we went to a supermarket to see if they had boxes. they didn't, at least not the kind that were useful to us. and places like that compact their boxes every day, break them down as they go, and then compact at the end of the day for recycling. getting enough boxes of the right size from supermarkets is again a matter of pure luck. we ended up buying boxes from uhaul at $2 each. doesn't seem like much but it still adds up. tolls add up. etc etc et, there are a lot of little costs that you may not notice right away, but they are there. adding up.

    rider mower? WHY? if you say your lawn in your house was less then an acre, why were you using a rider mower??? we have front and back lawn probably about half an acre (you did mention shed, etc, so not all of your acreage was a lawn) and it takes like an hour to mow once a week with a regular old hand mower even for me, less for my SO. its fairly efficient so we spend $20 tops for gas for the entire mowing season (wasn't particularly expensive either, about $150 when we bought it 4 years ago, and its going to keep going for us for a few more years at least). shoveling doesn't take all that much time either, with a snow blower. also... prices vary as does weather depending on location. we had almost no snow to shovel this entire winter, except for couple of weeks in feb. but no mowing either, cause it was too cold for grass to grow. there is also always an option of doing your lawn in a way that doesn't require mowing at all. that said, your apartment comes with 15 acres you say? is that 15 acres you can do whatever the hell you want with? is this your personal acreage? because.... I do not buy it. and if we are talking shared space within the apartment complex its like me claiming that the park and the public woods behind my house is part of my space and included in my property. which... its not, even though I have full acess to it.

    if rent includes heat/ trash you bet your ass its reflected in your rent amount. I keep saying, dude. landlords are not in it for the charity. they are not going to charge you at a loss to themselves.

    roofs last for decades. you don't just replace it constantly, and if you buy a house with relatively new roof, you have years and years and years to go before you need to replace it again. same for all the other stuff. just don't abuse your place and it will last. and that kind of general maintenance of your living space is something you are responsible for in a rental as well, only the major stuff gets fixed by a landlord.

    last but not least. we keep talking about house as investment. unless you are renting it out for profit? its not just an investment. its a LIVING expense. renting or buying - its a LIVING EXPENSE. its something you are stuck with no matter which way your chose. it amazes me that somehow the home ownership is treated as investment but renting is treated as a living expense. they are BOTH that. well.. you could in theory sell the house, but you still gotta live somewhere.

    also, what the hell is that property tax payment? MONTHLY?? what location are we talking about here for that property tax to be THAT high?? even my parents who live in NYC do not pay NEARLY that much monthly. and if property taxes are that high there? then so will be the rental prices. because... and i repeat.... yet again... landlords are NOT going to rent at a loss. they are in it for the profit.

    in any case. whatever you chose to do - own or rent, you are trading something off. renting is not some amazing loophole that lets you pay less while getting the same or more. you are trading something off. whether its privacy, security, amount of space, costs, or all of the above, its a tradeoff. you merely CHOSE what you are willing to trade off and what's more beneficial to you in your personal circumstances. I know I'm never going to rent again if I can help it. the amount of effort it takes just to find a place that is ok with big dogs, is enough of an incentive not to put myself at that much of a mercy of other people. the fact that I have actual genuine privacy and don't have to ask for permission to plant tomatoes or change my flower beds in a spring or keep my thermostat at the temperature I wanted to be, rather then what landlord choses for me - is enough of an incentive. but that's just me. you do you. just don't try to claim that your way is unequivocally better by using incomplete math.

    P.S. we bought our house 5 years ago with 5% down, 30 year mortgage with 2.6% interest rate. our credit score is decent nowadays (took a few years to get it to that point after making some major mistakes in our 20ties), but its not perfect, even now so our rate was not the lowest possible at the time. we made an effort to bring out equity up to over 20% and haven't had to pay pmi for about a year now. before we bought our house, we rented in the area for about a year to see if we like living here. we did. our rent was $100 higher for a smaller place (yes I'm including all the base costs in that so that its apples to apples comparison). with shared land (not our personal land). got lucky with a landlord too (among other things, she let us stay month to month while we were looking for a house, rather then asking for another 1 year lease term). weren't always that lucky. my parents bought their condo about... 10 years ago, give or take? their rate is also under 3% (don't remember the exact amount). 30 year mortgage (I still think they shouldn't have gone with a condo, but they wanted not to have to deal with maintenance and would rather pay maintenance fee and have if done by their hoa instead). I don't know where that 6% rate is coming from, unless we are talking people with bad or nonexistent credit. rentals also ask for credit check, nowadays, at least the ones in decent areas with timely maintenance. you can find a place to live without a credit check, but its going to be a shithole.
    Last edited by Witchblade77; 2021-03-31 at 06:19 PM.

  3. #43
    Herald of the Titans The Oblivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,761
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    lol umm buy a house more than a few years ago?
    in 2002 mine was 6.5% on my first house. Right now my Ex owns the house and its in its third refi @ around 3%
    took a very long time from that point for rates to drop below 3%. Took a few economic crashes and a pandemic


    i was going off the standard base rate as of yesterday
    30-year fixed-rate 3.030% today.

    Could get in the 2's easy with high credit and a few points or something outside 30 year fixed, but we were talking 30 year and the lower rates could have additional cost upfront. I assumed at 3.5% down there was no money to buy down the rate


    was again going off averages. i mean you could haggle the landlord down too 25 dollars a month :P
    Where I currently am:
    400k purchase
    3.21% rate 30 year fixed
    3.5% down is 14k
    P.I = 1671
    Insurance = 66
    Property tax = 263
    TOTAL = $2000

    again, you are simply bad at math. everything you are saying in this thread is bad information, and you clearly dont have a clue about real estate or investing if you think renting is ever financially better than owning. lmfao you dont even realize most lenders have programs for 3.5% down without PMI.
    Last edited by The Oblivion; 2021-03-31 at 06:08 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    again you go with discounting amenities. pool is a money sink, granted, but private pool is a bfd. also, you do not need to get a place with a pool in a first place. apartments with pool acess either charge you extra for acess or cost more in a first place. when you said minus the bedroom, you didn't specify number of rooms, total.

    what kind of maintenance are you talking about that takes 10-15 hours a week??? that is exclusive to home ownership rather then renting? cleaning you do either way. trash you take out either way.

    .
    I've never mowed the lawn once in any apartment i owned.
    Weed pulling, leaf blowing, snow shoveling, edging, fertilize, cleaning out gutters, trimming, raking, aerating, mulch management, etc etc.

    damn son you ever really own a home? I said my time took 3 hours a week, but a 400k house with more property, yah i can see it taking 10 hours.
    So even at 3 hours a week its a tremendous amount of $

    I won't even go into pool maintenance because if you have to even ask a question about maintenance, i can't imagine you know about pool maintenance. What a cluster fuck owning one, especially in ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post

    right because anyone who ever moves has acess to a warehouse they are working at that they can just borrow supplies from.
    yes I buy separate insurance on a moving truck, because I do not want it to go on my personal car insurance. as I said - someone is an ass and your personal premiums go up. and hilarious part is.. you admit it yourself that you buy a separate insurance on a moving truck as well. you just failed to mention it in your previous post, so you are arguing with me over.. what exactly here? I've moved 4 times before we bought our house and moved for the last time. it wasn't once a year, but it was still an undertaking each and every time. and it was twice the amount you mentioned because not all of us are lucky with acess to a warehouse, and all that jazz. yeah we went to a supermarket to see if they had boxes. they didn't, at least not the kind that were useful to us. and places like that compact their boxes every day, break them down as they go, and then compact at the end of the day for recycling. getting enough boxes of the right size from supermarkets is again a matter of pure luck. we ended up buying boxes from uhaul at $2 each. doesn't seem like much but it still adds up. tolls add up. etc etc et, there are a lot of little costs that you may not notice right away, but they are there. adding up.

    .
    Sorry you can't find free boxes and did not bother to save the boxes from all your prior moves planning for the future.


    Failed to mention $8 dollars additional cost of a moving truck i mean really? You got me now, totally bad faith poster here!!! /s


    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post

    rider mower? WHY? if you say your lawn in your house was less then an acre, why were you using a rider mower??? we have front and back lawn probably about half an acre (you did mention shed, etc, so not all of your acreage was a lawn) and it takes like an hour to mow once a week with a regular old hand mower even for me, less for my SO. its fairly efficient so we spend $20 tops for gas for the entire mowing season (wasn't particularly expensive either, about $150 when we bought it 4 years ago, and its going to keep going for us for a few more years at least). shoveling doesn't take all that much time either, with a snow blower. also... prices vary as does weather depending on location. we had almost no snow to shovel this entire winter, except for couple of weeks in feb. but no mowing either, cause it was too cold for grass to grow. there is also always an option of doing your lawn in a way that doesn't require mowing at all. that said, your apartment comes with 15 acres you say? is that 15 acres you can do whatever the hell you want with? is this your personal acreage? because.... I do not buy it. and if we are talking shared space within the apartment complex its like me claiming that the park and the public woods behind my house is part of my space and included in my property. which... its not, even though I have full acess to it.

    .
    Because my time is valuable and it takes way less of it with a rider mower? Raising a kid at the time so it made it the right choice.

    Front yard was also .55-.65 with no shade. Was a nightmare in the summer even if you woke up early or mowed it late. the design on the property was shit, no idea why they did not place the house about 3/4 close to the street and enhanced the back yard.

    As for shoveling, L shaped driveway in New England. Yah it never "doesn't take all that much time".

    As for the property, what are you expecting me to do with it that the landowner won't let me? they have open space for play and a BBQ pit for cookouts. Never has anyone had a problem using the space for standard things home owners use space for.




    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post


    if rent includes heat/ trash you bet your ass its reflected in your rent amount. I keep saying, dude. landlords are not in it for the charity. they are not going to charge you at a loss to themselves.

    right and it was included in my calculations. its not like i took my rent and then took out 50 dollars for heat then compared it to the housing cost. Not sure what you are trying to do here?



    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post


    roofs last for decades. you don't just replace it constantly, and if you buy a house with relatively new roof, you have years and years and years to go before you need to replace it again. same for all the other stuff. just don't abuse your place and it will last. and that kind of general maintenance of your living space is something you are responsible for in a rental as well, only the major stuff gets fixed by a landlord.

    .
    or you end up with a house that needs two roof replacements. I'll take your tact, if you buy a house with a newer roof you can expect to pay more and it will be reflected in the price of the house....

    Sorry but the abuse of the roof was done by mother nature in good old new England.

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post


    also, what the hell is that property tax payment? MONTHLY?? what location are we talking about here for that property tax to be THAT high?? even my parents who live in NYC do not pay NEARLY that much monthly. and if property taxes are that high there? then so will be the rental prices. because... and i repeat.... yet again... landlords are NOT going to rent at a loss. they are in it for the profit.

    .
    Welcome to new England and NY.

    NYC would all depend on assessed value of the property and its classification. Property taxes in NYC are really not that horrible vs the outlying counties and some counties in upstate NY. (lived in NY/NYC/LI for first 25 or so years)

    the relative averages of property taxes in NYC vs say CT or NJ/NY suburbs could be as much as 150-200% difference. Its a strange thing NY the further you go away from the city the more expensive property taxes get. The opposite of what most people believe because NYC is always expected to be sooooo expensive.

    Nassau $460,700 $10,000+ 2.11%
    New York $944,600 $8,980 0.95%
    Suffolk $386,800 $9,157 2.37%
    The average effective property tax rate in the Big Apple is just 0.88% – more than half the statewide average rate of 1.69%. In fact, many New York counties (outside of New York City) have rates exceeding 2.50%, which is more than double the national average of 1.07%.


    CT

    County Median Home Value Median Annual Property Tax Payment Average Effective Property Tax Rate
    Fairfield County $422,300 $7,393 1.75%
    Hartford County $237,700 $5,430 2.28%
    Litchfield County $251,500 $4,829 1.92%
    Middlesex County $284,900 $5,565 1.95%
    New Haven County $246,700 $5,744 2.33%
    New London County $239,000 $4,425 1.85%
    Tolland County $251,300 $5,458 2.17%
    Windham County $198,000 $3,671 1.85%


    NJ + NY
    https://smartasset.com/taxes/new-jer...tax-calculator
    https://smartasset.com/taxes/new-yor...tax-calculator


    So its not something super rare, it effects what 50 million people in this area?




    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post


    in any case. whatever you chose to do - own or rent, you are trading something off. renting is not some amazing loophole that lets you pay less while getting the same or more. you are trading something off. whether its privacy, security, amount of space, costs, or all of the above, its a tradeoff. you merely CHOSE what you are willing to trade off and what's more beneficial to you in your personal circumstances. I know I'm never going to rent again if I can help it. the amount of effort it takes just to find a place that is ok with big dogs, is enough of an incentive not to put myself at that much of a mercy of other people. the fact that I have actual genuine privacy and don't have to ask for permission to plant tomatoes or change my flower beds in a spring or keep my thermostat at the temperature I wanted to be, rather then what landlord choses for me - is enough of an incentive. but that's just me. you do you. just don't try to claim that your way is unequivocally better by using incomplete math.

    .
    Never said it was super amazing and where in the world did you live that your landlord controlled your temperature, Moscow??. I was using the math relative to my example never meant for it to be the end all. Hell i know outright living in a whole lot of states i could cut my rental cost in half by owning a home easy. Of course, jobs.....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    Where I currently am:
    400k purchase
    3.21% rate 30 year fixed
    3.5% down is 14k
    P.I = 1671
    Insurance = 66
    Property tax = 263
    TOTAL = $2000

    again, you are simply bad at math. everything you are saying in this thread is bad information, and you clearly dont have a clue about real estate or investing if you think renting is ever financially better than owning. lmfao you dont even realize most lenders have programs for 3.5% down without PMI.

    Oh so now my math is bad because I have to qualify for a PMI free program in order to knock down my rate. Don't have to ever pay PMI on a rental.
    Oh i know all about those programs and let me tell you, denied denied denied.
    I paid PMI for a whole bunch of years just like you did.
    Guess i should have joined the military.....

    You left PMI out of the calculation and did not even make a notation about it, but my information is bad.


    and my math is bad because property rates in my state and the 3 around me are double-triple what you list? not to mention insurance is more expensive obviously around here then by you even though you mentioned California so its not that much better then some area's.


    At worst you could argue that my information is too personal and i should have went with national averages, or even regional and framed my argument around "it depends" better.

    You even attacked my using of benchmarks to compare too. Seems you just disagree about everyone for the sake of disagreeing? They are benchmarks for a reason.


    Seems neither one of us are perfect, just one of us is not making this personal with insults.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  5. #45
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,224
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    -snip-
    I am not trying to sound like a jerk, but do most people only save 3.5% as a down payment?
    Did you have to pay PMI till you hit 20%?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Likely because of expansion of remote work. We have vacation properties in Catalina, Ft. Bragg and Carmel. For the most part, we did not see much growth with those properties pre-pandemic. Since the pandemic, we have been getting unsolicited cash offers left and right for double of their values pre-pandemic. The Ft. Bragg house was surprising because it is an 8-hr drive from SF.
    did you own a home prior to the crash of 08-09 ish?
    Seems like this has so many shared examples to that time.

    I still remember thinking about selling in 2006-2007 because after 5 years they were telling me my house was worth 300k from 171k.

    My brother in law lucked out, because of a divorce (one can argue lucked out twice lol) and was forced to sell his house under the divorce agreement right at the peak.
    It was insane the house sold in about three hours at 20% higher than posted which was already 70% appreciation on the 250 ish they paid on the house.


    Houses in central, western parts of CT are not lasting much longer.
    My zillow addiction and house spotting/hunting trips through the north western part of the state just amazes me how fast these houses are turning around.


    Yes, even after all i posted i am still not apposed to buying a home at this point for retirement.

    But that is because i am starting to suffer from the 'get off my lawn you young punks' disease already. I don't even have a lawn of my own either!!!! Noise and nonsense is just starting to really bother me. I think i am done with semi-urban living very soon.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    I've never mowed the lawn once in any apartment i owned.
    Weed pulling, leaf blowing, snow shoveling, edging, fertilize, cleaning out gutters, trimming, raking, aerating, mulch management, etc etc.

    damn son you ever really own a home? I said my time took 3 hours a week, but a 400k house with more property, yah i can see it taking 10 hours.
    So even at 3 hours a week its a tremendous amount of $

    I won't even go into pool maintenance because if you have to even ask a question about maintenance, i can't imagine you know about pool maintenance. What a cluster fuck owning one, especially in ground.



    Sorry you can't find free boxes and did not bother to save the boxes from all your prior moves planning for the future.


    Failed to mention $8 dollars additional cost of a moving truck i mean really? You got me now, totally bad faith poster here!!! /s




    Because my time is valuable and it takes way less of it with a rider mower? Raising a kid at the time so it made it the right choice.

    Front yard was also .55-.65 with no shade. Was a nightmare in the summer even if you woke up early or mowed it late. the design on the property was shit, no idea why they did not place the house about 3/4 close to the street and enhanced the back yard.

    As for shoveling, L shaped driveway in New England. Yah it never "doesn't take all that much time".

    As for the property, what are you expecting me to do with it that the landowner won't let me? they have open space for play and a BBQ pit for cookouts. Never has anyone had a problem using the space for standard things home owners use space for.







    right and it was included in my calculations. its not like i took my rent and then took out 50 dollars for heat then compared it to the housing cost. Not sure what you are trying to do here?





    or you end up with a house that needs two roof replacements. I'll take your tact, if you buy a house with a newer roof you can expect to pay more and it will be reflected in the price of the house....

    Sorry but the abuse of the roof was done by mother nature in good old new England.



    Welcome to new England and NY.

    NYC would all depend on assessed value of the property and its classification. Property taxes in NYC are really not that horrible vs the outlying counties and some counties in upstate NY. (lived in NY/NYC/LI for first 25 or so years)

    the relative averages of property taxes in NYC vs say CT or NJ/NY suburbs could be as much as 150-200% difference. Its a strange thing NY the further you go away from the city the more expensive property taxes get. The opposite of what most people believe because NYC is always expected to be sooooo expensive.

    Nassau $460,700 $10,000+ 2.11%
    New York $944,600 $8,980 0.95%
    Suffolk $386,800 $9,157 2.37%
    The average effective property tax rate in the Big Apple is just 0.88% – more than half the statewide average rate of 1.69%. In fact, many New York counties (outside of New York City) have rates exceeding 2.50%, which is more than double the national average of 1.07%.


    CT

    County Median Home Value Median Annual Property Tax Payment Average Effective Property Tax Rate
    Fairfield County $422,300 $7,393 1.75%
    Hartford County $237,700 $5,430 2.28%
    Litchfield County $251,500 $4,829 1.92%
    Middlesex County $284,900 $5,565 1.95%
    New Haven County $246,700 $5,744 2.33%
    New London County $239,000 $4,425 1.85%
    Tolland County $251,300 $5,458 2.17%
    Windham County $198,000 $3,671 1.85%


    NJ + NY
    https://smartasset.com/taxes/new-jer...tax-calculator
    https://smartasset.com/taxes/new-yor...tax-calculator


    So its not something super rare, it effects what 50 million people in this area?






    Never said it was super amazing and where in the world did you live that your landlord controlled your temperature, Moscow??. I was using the math relative to my example never meant for it to be the end all. Hell i know outright living in a whole lot of states i could cut my rental cost in half by owning a home easy. Of course, jobs.....
    it sounds like you bought a money pit and decided that that's how homeownership in general is. but seriously, new England didn't just develop that sort of weather, so that tells me whatever roof they added and then you added was not good enough to deal with that weather. they have covered gutters nowadays, makes maintenance much easier. etc etc, you CHOSE to get yourself a rider mower (I've seen some people around use them, not seeing that much of a speed increase. they do get tired less I suppose, since you are not pushing one around, but I tend to look at it as a bit of extra exercise)

    and i did mention that pool maintenance is a money pit, but the tradeoff is your own personal pool that strangers do not pee into (or you could just buy a membership to a communal pool and NOT buy a house with a pool, not only you save on maintenance, but your insurance rates go down as well).

    how much extra space did you have to just store the boxes in an apartment for the next move in a few years??? who has that?

    what I do on my property? change flowerbeds for the fun of it, experiment of planting variety of veggies, first year we were there, we dug up the bushes that property came with and planted a bunch of fruit trees instead, we have chickens in our backyard for our own eggs and then there is a matter of dogs playing outside. something as simple as fencing in the area for the animals even as homeowner can require permission from municipality (depending on a scope of additions our chicken coup and fencing is not tall enough to require one in our area, but anything above 6 feet - does require permits) landlords tend to frown upon it even more. just to name a few things.

    I lived in new york and new jersey. we had oil heater in a basement and those whistling water radiators in apartments themselves. landlord set the timer on the boiler and if you wanted warmer - had to get space heaters. our last place we had electric heat with our own thermostat, but it was also not included into the rent, so our flexibility in temperatures came at a cost.

    those taxes are bonkers, but even the highest tax rate on your very least is 100 per month less then your originally stated number. and I also have to wonder what kind of rental prices they have in those areas to compensate. or do people just not rent there?


    essentially you are comparing worst possible home ownership scenario, to best possible rental scenario. nice.


    and again, homeownership is not right for everyone anymore then renting is. but your comparisons are skewed as heck, among other things.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by ghotihook View Post
    I am not trying to sound like a jerk, but do most people only save 3.5% as a down payment?
    Did you have to pay PMI till you hit 20%?
    we had 15% and could not qualify for one of those programs because of income.

    I had moved and got promoted to NYC salary rates even though i lived 150 miles away from NYC.

    didn't take long to pay enough to get rid of PMI.

    You could also refinance the house if the value dramatically increased thus recalculating the PMI threshold.


    not sure on "most", but now I sure would not buy unless I had the 20% or could qualify.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  9. #49
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,224
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    we had 15% and could not qualify for one of those programs because of income.

    I had moved and got promoted to NYC salary rates even though i lived 150 miles away from NYC.

    didn't take long to pay enough to get rid of PMI.

    You could also refinance the house if the value dramatically increased thus recalculating the PMI threshold.


    not sure on "most", but now I sure would not buy unless I had the 20% or could qualify.
    I thought you were saying you put down 3.5%. There is no way in hell I would buy a house if that's all I had.

    I was just trying to understand. I was able to save 40K so I didn't have to pay PMI, and I would have probably saved longer if housing prices were higher. Cause I was only making 45K a year when I purchased. But if you're making good money and get out of PMI quick it's a perfectly good choice.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    it sounds like you bought a money pit and decided that that's how homeownership in general is. but seriously, new England didn't just develop that sort of weather, so that tells me whatever roof they added and then you added was not good enough to deal with that weather. they have covered gutters nowadays, makes maintenance much easier. etc etc, you CHOSE to get yourself a rider mower (I've seen some people around use them, not seeing that much of a speed increase. they do get tired less I suppose, since you are not pushing one around, but I tend to look at it as a bit of extra exercise)

    .

    didn't cheap out on the roof, invested in a quality roof.
    If i got a house with a brand new roof the price would not have been 171k. I mean even my bad math can figure that out.

    Covered gutters just added to that 171k. Never needed covers on my apartment, though they could use a clearing because the water is leaking on to my AC slot and it sounds like a drum when it rains

    Yah might not have been the best, but again no where did i say this was the average house or the standard by which everything should be measured. you are just taking it that way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    i

    and i did mention that pool maintenance is a money pit, but the tradeoff is your own personal pool that strangers do not pee into (or you could just buy a membership to a communal pool and NOT buy a house with a pool, not only you save on maintenance, but your insurance rates go down as well).
    You'll get no argument from me on this one. There is no one i talk to about home ownership that i don't start off with DO NOT BUY A HOUSE WITH A POOL.
    Cost, liability, insurance, actual negative impact on property value in some cases, etc etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    i
    how much extra space did you have to just store the boxes in an apartment for the next move in a few years??? who has that?

    .
    last 3 places i lived we had assigned storage spaces in the basement. enough to store folded up boxes. Guess i am lucky.


    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    i


    what I do on my property? change flowerbeds for the fun of it, experiment of planting variety of veggies, first year we were there, we dug up the bushes that property came with and planted a bunch of fruit trees instead, we have chickens in our backyard for our own eggs and then there is a matter of dogs playing outside. something as simple as fencing in the area for the animals even as homeowner can require permission from municipality (depending on a scope of additions our chicken coup and fencing is not tall enough to require one in our area, but anything above 6 feet - does require permits) landlords tend to frown upon it even more. just to name a few things.
    well my last place did have a community garden and you could sign up for assigned plots. got out of there because it was a very 'old' oriented place, lol.

    As for pets, yah renting is a nightmare.



    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    i


    those taxes are bonkers, but even the highest tax rate on your very least is 100 per month less then your originally stated number. and I also have to wonder what kind of rental prices they have in those areas to compensate. or do people just not rent there?

    essentially you are comparing worst possible home ownership scenario, to best possible rental scenario. nice.

    and again, homeownership is not right for everyone anymore then renting is. but your comparisons are skewed as heck, among other things.
    assessments on rental properties and complex's tend to be very low compared to private residences. They milk the hell out of homeowners.



    Worst possible? Nah, very standard for tens of millions of people. Hell NY alone has 20 million people. Northeast, which is New England, New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey is around 56 million.
    Then you can take a few other places with high taxes as well and easily get near 100 million people or a third of the country.



    400k house in new haven county @ 2.33% = 776.00
    i said 760. my example was the outer parts of Hartford County 2.28%
    Not even the highest.



    I do agree its skewed.... its skewed as it relates to comparing my experience to yours. My locality to yours.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ghotihook View Post
    I thought you were saying you put down 3.5%. There is no way in hell I would buy a house if that's all I had.

    I was just trying to understand. I was able to save 40K so I didn't have to pay PMI, and I would have probably saved longer if housing prices were higher. Cause I was only making 45K a year when I purchased. But if you're making good money and get out of PMI quick it's a perfectly good choice.
    No no that was someone else who used 3.5% as an example.

    i would have loved to qualify for a low down payment loan with no pmi.

    Would have used that extra money on a new porch about a decade sooner then i got it :P
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Is there any actual benefit in buying a home?
    Yeah owning a home.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Yeah owning a home.
    i used to like owning a home when i could get the kids next door to mow my lawn and shovel my walk.

    Now you can't get kids to do shit.




    i also could yell at them to get off my lawn, one of my favorite past times.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  13. #53
    We were saving up for home ownership, but I just don't see how it's possible anymore. Homes in our area of Florida that were around $150k a couple of years ago are now in the $400k range with people paying substantially over asking price. This isn't like the early 2000s either with people qualifying for loans they can't afford, it seems to be wealthy people from CA and the northeast who don't seem to have a problem paying double listing price in some cases. At this point, I'm worried we're going to be priced out of the area since I don't see how rent won't go up significantly here as a result.
    "People with depression score higher on tests of realism. Intelligence is positively correlated with mental illness and suicide. What this indicates is that if the mind understands too much about reality, it wants to destroy itself. Human life is existential horror."

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    didn't cheap out on the roof, invested in a quality roof.
    If i got a house with a brand new roof the price would not have been 171k. I mean even my bad math can figure that out.

    Covered gutters just added to that 171k. Never needed covers on my apartment, though they could use a clearing because the water is leaking on to my AC slot and it sounds like a drum when it rains

    Yah might not have been the best, but again no where did i say this was the average house or the standard by which everything should be measured. you are just taking it that way.




    You'll get no argument from me on this one. There is no one i talk to about home ownership that i don't start off with DO NOT BUY A HOUSE WITH A POOL.
    Cost, liability, insurance, actual negative impact on property value in some cases, etc etc.



    last 3 places i lived we had assigned storage spaces in the basement. enough to store folded up boxes. Guess i am lucky.




    well my last place did have a community garden and you could sign up for assigned plots. got out of there because it was a very 'old' oriented place, lol.

    As for pets, yah renting is a nightmare.





    assessments on rental properties and complex's tend to be very low compared to private residences. They milk the hell out of homeowners.



    Worst possible? Nah, very standard for tens of millions of people. Hell NY alone has 20 million people. Northeast, which is New England, New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey is around 56 million.
    Then you can take a few other places with high taxes as well and easily get near 100 million people or a third of the country.



    400k house in new haven county @ 2.33% = 776.00
    i said 760. my example was the outer parts of Hartford County 2.28%
    Not even the highest.



    I do agree its skewed.... its skewed as it relates to comparing my experience to yours. My locality to yours.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No no that was someone else who used 3.5% as an example.

    i would have loved to qualify for a low down payment loan with no pmi.

    Would have used that extra money on a new porch about a decade sooner then i got it :P
    ok, so you are talking in terms of personal preference and experience vs general outlook.

    incidentally, my house cost less then yours and it came with covered gutters as well as those snow melting wire things, whose name i cannot remember, but that we use every winter whenever there is snow - helps to preserve the roof, a LOT. again, personal experience and all that, but if we are comparing personal experiences here ...

    I'm still in northeast myself, btw and if you have an opportunity to buy a house, property taxes SHOULD be one of your considerations. it certainly was one of ours (and why we didn't buy a house in NJ, btw). also, as far as I can tell - property taxes on rental property are NOT lower, but rather you get a variety of extra deductions - due to maintenance of said property being a business expense, basically, and then there is depreciation deduction. but for the life of me i cannot find ANY sources that back up your claim that assessment on rental property can be low compared to personal residential home (on the contrary one of the benefits of us having just one primary residence is that we get property tax discount on it vs having more then one house). that said, your personal experience was not just taxes it was also apparently property layout among other things. we passed on a LOT of promising houses (one of which I still think about sometimes, because the house itself was gorgeous and damn near perfect AND within our budget, but the location and property layout was absolute ass), because even early on we could tell that the layout of the outside was NOT going to work for us, at all.

    I will say this much, speaking of deductions and taxes. due to how and where we bought our property, its actualy easier and better for us to go with a standard deduction (or had been so far) with higher property taxes, higher mortgage, etc - you often get better returns via itemized deductions and credits on your personal tax return... which also becomes a consideration when calculating pros and cons (I would still recommend NOT buying in high property tax area though)

    as for rentals and storage space. lucky and probably had more options without pets. our rental options were fairly limited, unless we were willing to give up our dogs and neither me nor SO was willing to do that. you adopt an animal? its your responsibility for the rest of their life, you don't get to just discard them because they are inconvenient now. just like not everyone can benefit from ownership (or renting) not everyone should have pets either.

    honestly, it also feels like a lot of people just do not do enough research before buying. it IS a particular kind of commitment. there are a lot of things to consider there. and even with the best preparations, its still possible to miss things, but it still helps to avoid a LOT of pitfalls. if there is one unquestionable benefit to renting, its that your commitment is generally NOT so long term and you can get out of it much easier then having to sell a house with issues.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Too many real estate agents. Never been a fan of a middleman industry that skims 3-6% of the sales price.
    Is it just me or does the US have a disproportionate number of real estate agents?

    2 million real estate agents mean that 0.6% of the population are real estate agents; some claim it's because they sell 5 million home each year, which would only be 2.5 homes per estate agent and year. Even if you only count the active members of the organization it's still less than 4 homes per agent and year.

    The uk allegedly have between 20k and 100k (depending on how you count) selling 1.2 million homes; so between 0.03% and 0.15% and between 12 and 60 homes per agent and year.

    (And I didn't mind my agent skimming of about 4% as there are legal documents, and marketing.)

  16. #56
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    California
    Posts
    19,941
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Is it just me or does the US have a disproportionate number of real estate agents?

    2 million real estate agents mean that 0.6% of the population are real estate agents; some claim it's because they sell 5 million home each year, which would only be 2.5 homes per estate agent and year. Even if you only count the active members of the organization it's still less than 4 homes per agent and year.

    The uk allegedly have between 20k and 100k (depending on how you count) selling 1.2 million homes; so between 0.03% and 0.15% and between 12 and 60 homes per agent and year.
    I think it's because it's really easy to become a real estate agent in the US so a lot of people pursue it as a side job. It's a feast or famine situation where some people sell a lot but some people rarely close a sell. The "Realtor" designation is kind of a scam because even after they get their real estate license they still kind of need to pay a fee every year just to be a part of the club and it costs hundreds of dollars.
    (And I didn't mind my agent skimming of about 4% as there are legal documents, and marketing.)
    They often try to get 5-6% here and I complain about them but the truth is the average person is clueless about real estate exchanges, checking for liens, getting buildings inspected, and marketing so it's not usually realistic to do things without going through an agent.
    Last edited by PC2; 2021-03-31 at 10:24 PM.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  17. #57
    Pit Lord smityx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Walmart Basment FEMA Camp 7
    Posts
    2,313
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    even in those countries, you cannot just paint your walls whatever you want, knock them down, replace major appliances/kitchen cabinets/etc, have pets - without landlord's approval.
    Careful now. People do live in HOA hellholes with Karen's not even allowing you to have a couple flower pots.

  18. #58
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    In Security Watching...
    Posts
    40,798
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Is there any actual benefit in buying a home?
    Yes, but it depends on a few details, because buying a house is a bit like buying a used car over all you have to have a plan and contingency set up in case of all plausible outcomes.

    IF NOT then no, a home can be a money pit. The truth is the biggest reason married people get divorced is finance and almost always always it's not too long after the purchase of a home together.

    As to benefit yes, the very home you have if you pay off early or on time, you build equity but again that is only IF you plan ahead.

    Otherwise like so many you will hitch yourself to a massive debt that requires monthly considerations as well as maintenance. Keep in mind real estate is a volatile market filled with a lot of landmines
    #ANTIFA "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    i used to like owning a home when i could get the kids next door to mow my lawn and shovel my walk.

    Now you can't get kids to do shit.




    i also could yell at them to get off my lawn, one of my favorite past times.
    My favorite part about owning a home is being able to shut my front gate and essentially cutting off any chance at human contact until I decide to open them again to leave or whatever.

    But yea I can't even get my own kid to cut the grass around here never mind some neighbor's kid.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by smityx View Post
    Careful now. People do live in HOA hellholes with Karen's not even allowing you to have a couple flower pots.
    oh I'm aware. painfuly so. which is why when shopping for a house, we very unequivocally told our real estate agent - absolutely positively NO HOA. EVER. up to and including dropping first agent for not getting the memo and finding another one.

    HOA is honestly closer to renting then owning, IMO. so...yeah...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •