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  1. #1

    What's Wrong with Simple Systems Expansion?

    Since Legion, Blizz has been trying to add complex systems to the game that will last for an expansion and then throw it away.

    This somehow worked for Legion as the Artifact system wasn't that complicated tbh.

    But was a nightmare in BfA, we had the initial system, a new system in the first patch, a third system in the second patch, then there was the cloak at the end.

    These systems over complicate the game, and delay it in a lot of ways, tuning them is another story.

    Why can't we have an expansion like Wrath or BC or even Cata? they didn't have much complicated systems, yet they had more zones, raids, dungeons, the story was even better!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by KSM899 View Post

    Why can't we have an expansion like Wrath or BC or even Cata? they didn't have much complicated systems, yet they had more zones, raids, dungeons, the story was even better!
    That's the reason why they had more of it. Development time wasn't spent on gimmicks like garrisons and covenants.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    That's the reason why they had more of it. Development time wasn't spent on gimmicks like garrisons and covenants.
    Yet they make more money of the game than they used to before, so why can't they dedicate more developers to other stuff too?

  4. #4
    Because they can't hook you into battle pass style reward gameplay without creating systems of progression that fit into that loop. It is quite obvious that they're forcing the game to shift into that direction, essentially they're locking your character power behind multiple progression systems and gear on top of it so that you can continue having to pay your fee to play the game. At this point for a lot of people it's just not worth it anymore to pay for a game the cost more than every other sub on the market you get basically nothing other than the ability to play a game that you also pay for again every two years.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    That's the reason why they had more of it. Development time wasn't spent on gimmicks like garrisons and covenants.
    You ARE aware that Blizzard has separate team for dungeons and raids, outdoor zones, and quest writing, right? It's not like they took people off those teams to develop other things.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  6. #6
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    You ARE aware that Blizzard has separate team for dungeons and raids, outdoor zones, and quest writing, right? It's not like they took people off those teams to develop other things.
    Source please. You seem to be very well informed about Blizz's modus operandi, so I'd love if you could share that info

    @OP I agree. I'd play even !@#$ing Cata rather than this jumbled mess of systems that are EXTREMELY annoying to deal with, especially after another overengineered expansion as was BfA.
    Last edited by Soon-TM; 2021-03-31 at 02:55 AM.
    Current state of WoW lore:
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    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Nathreim's Avatar
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    Blizz is too lazy/cheep to make enough content to last months so they have to gate content and use systems to distract us from the lack of real content.

  8. #8
    Loa of Death Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Maybe they could make 'mini' expansions every few months? Like, maybe have something going on in Northrend that we have to check out?

    Another day, another Deal....

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSM899 View Post
    Since Legion, Blizz has been trying to add complex systems to the game that will last for an expansion and then throw it away.

    This somehow worked for Legion as the Artifact system wasn't that complicated tbh.

    But was a nightmare in BfA, we had the initial system, a new system in the first patch, a third system in the second patch, then there was the cloak at the end.

    These systems over complicate the game, and delay it in a lot of ways, tuning them is another story.

    Why can't we have an expansion like Wrath or BC or even Cata? they didn't have much complicated systems, yet they had more zones, raids, dungeons, the story was even better!
    Because they want people to have something to work towards outside of raids and dungeons

  10. #10
    For me...

    I’d love it if each expansion gave a new spell or two to add to the rotation. You can prune spells later on, spells that would minimize dot/hot upkeep etc but continuously add something that makes you stronger or more versatile.

  11. #11
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Because they want people to have something to work towards outside of raids and dungeons
    Then it hasn't worked, because all you do in SL as of now is raidlogging and running a couple of M+ in order to pad the weekly vault.
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Weeps View Post
    For me...

    I’d love it if each expansion gave a new spell or two to add to the rotation. You can prune spells later on, spells that would minimize dot/hot upkeep etc but continuously add something that makes you stronger or more versatile.
    That's a cool idea. They could even attach it to a special item or tie it in to the story somehow, like a powerful organisation who you're working with giving you new spells.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Because they can't hook you into battle pass style reward gameplay without creating systems of progression that fit into that loop. It is quite obvious that they're forcing the game to shift into that direction, essentially they're locking your character power behind multiple progression systems and gear on top of it so that you can continue having to pay your fee to play the game. At this point for a lot of people it's just not worth it anymore to pay for a game the cost more than every other sub on the market you get basically nothing other than the ability to play a game that you also pay for again every two years.
    Oh god. Oh god oh god oh no

    Oh nooo. Why have you pointed this out. All they're missing now is a battlebus or bullet sponge mechanics
    Last edited by Stardrift; 2021-03-31 at 03:36 AM.

  14. #14
    Those expansions had gimmicks, they were generally just ones that lasted longer than one expansion. Wrath = vehicles. BC = flying mounts and heroic dungeons. Cataclysm = world revamp, and so on.

    they're still taking ideas from past expansions, they've just realized that dumping more and more abilities onto players makes them feel samey after a while, hence the legion prune, but have been trying to find that balance since.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
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    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by KSM899 View Post
    Since Legion, Blizz has been trying to add complex systems to the game that will last for an expansion and then throw it away.

    This somehow worked for Legion as the Artifact system wasn't that complicated tbh.

    But was a nightmare in BfA, we had the initial system, a new system in the first patch, a third system in the second patch, then there was the cloak at the end.

    These systems over complicate the game, and delay it in a lot of ways, tuning them is another story.

    Why can't we have an expansion like Wrath or BC or even Cata? they didn't have much complicated systems, yet they had more zones, raids, dungeons, the story was even better!
    So at the end of Pandaria or WoD (I forget which) Blizzard decided there was a problem with ability bloat. Each expansion added more and more buttons and in their eyes this wouldn't be sustainable and we'd end up with 20 button rotations. So they enacted the great pruning, removing all kinds of abilities, which pissed many players off. They then instituted the borrowed power systems we see today. This allows each expansion to introduce new abilities that were not permanent, ensuring bloat would not be a thing again.

    Being Blizzard though, they can't do anything simple, so they added the power grinds which also forced near-daily play, which is a whole other conversation.

    I get the reasoning behind going with borrowed power and avoiding ability bloat. I personally wish they'd just simplify it - Khadgar or another important NPC or your old class order hall NPCs comes to you on expansion launch and grants you a few new abilities that are thematically appropriate for the expansion. At the end of the expansion you lose access to those abilities. No fuss, no muss.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathbadh View Post
    So at the end of Pandaria or WoD (I forget which) Blizzard decided there was a problem with ability bloat. Each expansion added more and more buttons and in their eyes this wouldn't be sustainable and we'd end up with 20 button rotations. So they enacted the great pruning, removing all kinds of abilities, which pissed many players off. They then instituted the borrowed power systems we see today. This allows each expansion to introduce new abilities that were not permanent, ensuring bloat would not be a thing again.

    Being Blizzard though, they can't do anything simple, so they added the power grinds which also forced near-daily play, which is a whole other conversation.

    I get the reasoning behind going with borrowed power and avoiding ability bloat. I personally wish they'd just simplify it - Khadgar or another important NPC or your old class order hall NPCs comes to you on expansion launch and grants you a few new abilities that are thematically appropriate for the expansion. At the end of the expansion you lose access to those abilities. No fuss, no muss.

    I hate the idea of removing content and abilities so retail has really lost a lot of me. The core idea of 'borrowed power's is fine imo, as long as it remains accessible.

    Given the choice between expansion powers instead of removing them. This would also allow certain playstyles to co-exist within specs and allow diversity. Simmers will always find the best possible combination regardless of what blizzard does, the only way to shake up metas is to introduce enough variables the balance is easily upset.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by KSM899 View Post

    Why can't we have an expansion like Wrath or BC or even Cata? they didn't have much complicated systems, yet they had more zones, raids, dungeons, the story was even better!
    Why cant we? No idea, ask Blizzard. Would i personally prefer it? Absolutely - no doubt in my mind.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Source please. You seem to be very well informed about Blizz's modus operandi, so I'd love if you could share that info

    @OP I agree. I'd play even !@#$ing Cata rather than this jumbled mess of systems that are EXTREMELY annoying to deal with, especially after another overengineered expansion as was BfA.
    That's like common knowledge at this point lol

  19. #19
    I think the problem is more to make a damned selling point other than "Hey guys we made an expansion it gives new zones and dungeons...that's it have fun. IE try to make it for mass appeal which lets face it, as far as mass appeal go wow works but ya'll (despite what you think) aren't the masses.

    Hell to ya'll "Hey its the same game..but more of it" sounds amazing but to the rest of the world...its like "Why bother?"

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Then it hasn't worked, because all you do in SL as of now is raidlogging and running a couple of M+ in order to pad the weekly vault.
    that is the big difference between Legion/BfA and SL; there is no mandatory endless grind. it's optional. Players are now free to do whatever they choose as opposed to the past 2 expansions where you not only had to do both raid and m+ to be at the cutting edge you also had to do every single world quest available in the effort to get AP

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