View Poll Results: Would you like to see increased raid difficulty?

Voters
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  • Yes

    53 28.80%
  • Doesn't matter for me

    26 14.13%
  • No

    105 57.07%
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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    What a weird post. And you talk about logic circuits not functioning?
    His post makes sense to me, what part do you not agree with lol.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowroguetbc View Post
    His post makes sense to me, what part do you not agree with lol.
    I mean there are a hundred holes in his logic, but the first one is assuming all of the players are a part of all 3 of his "steps"?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    Step 1; Laugh at classic being lfr easy
    Step 2; Do everything humanly possible to further trivialize said content (minmax buff galore, class stacking, etc), no matter how sweaty nerd process it is
    Step 3; Rage how easy and boring the content is and how it's a disaster
    = gg

    I swear some peoples logic circuits are not functioning.
    Haha, this is perfect example of classic! Its perfect!

    On topic: Just some QOL stuff, leave the game Alone. I love TBC to death, but i not gonna play it, simply because of the min/max culture there is in classic. Yes, i could Find a guild, but i did everything in tbc and honestly, i dont wanna do it speedwagon mode.
    So, have fun in TBC!

  4. #44
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atherions View Post
    My raiding team had both ret paladins and boomkin druids throughout classic and we cleared naxx the second week. This would not have happened if the raids were harder
    I doubt you had multiples of either and cleared Naxx week 2.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  5. #45
    Bloodsail Admiral Xykotic's Avatar
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    TBC wasn't really about the challenge. More about the journey.
    I think we're good w/ old pre-nerfed health numbers. Dont need anything more. Sunwell will be decently difficult. I would be surprised if even 50% of raiding guilds managed to reach Sunwell, let alone clear it.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    What a weird post. And you talk about logic circuits not functioning?
    What is illogical about his point ? That's exactly what's happening. People laugh about the game being too easy, but tryhard to the death to make it even easier, to the ridiculous extent of often putting more efforts in minmaxing and consummables and so on than it would take to clear the raid without said minmaxing.

    (though at the same time, despite all laughs about how easy the game is, only a minority of guilds can actually clear Naxx without the whole WB meta)

  7. #47
    Only private server nuts who have gamed the system to it's limits want content to be buffed for TBC Classic. Nobody likes health sponges, and unless they plan to re-balance every class to match the new scaling, we'll be stuck with the absolute meta or nobody can clear.

    Unlike Classic, TBC Classic won't have an insane number of world buffs that massively buff every class just before raid time. People will still game the Magtheridon/SSC buffs I'm sure, but 5% damage is nothing compared to the buffs available on Classic.

    There's simply no reason behind buffing the content. Nobody wants to be challenged by 15 year old content.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  8. #48
    i always read in this thread something about „nochanges“ and „Vanilla/Classic too easy“.

    you all should just realize ONE simple thing:

    Classic was NOWHERE and NEVER a #nochanges thing. it was delivered with 1.13. this was not the case in original Vanilla. this IS a change. you cant say „nochanges“ and deliver a game with a completely another patch version not apropriate to the intro raids. and wonder why bosses are stupid easy...

    and i cant hear that many ppl whining about naxx same easy as they whined about how easy MC/BWL was (world buffs besides). ofc! original game did not delivered MC with 1.13. so i have no clue how ppl ever can agree wow classic is „nochanges“.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2021-04-07 at 10:16 AM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    i always read in this thread something about „nochanges“ and „Vanilla/Classic too easy“.

    you all should just realize ONE simple thing:

    Classic was NOWHERE and NEVER a #nochanges thing. it was delivered with 1.13. this was not the case in original Vanilla. this IS a change. you cant say „nochanges“ and deliver a game with a completely another patch version not apropriate to the intro raids. and wonder why bosses are stupid easy...

    and i cant hear that many ppl whining about naxx same easy as they whined about how easy MC/BWL was (world buffs besides). ofc! original game did not delivered MC with 1.13. so i have no clue how ppl ever can agree wow classic is „nochanges“.
    You could do MC with questing greens and some people being 55. I doubt that earlier talents would have made it measureably more difficult.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    There was no need to do it in classic. Like literally absolutely no need to min max to that extent. But people did. It will never be easier than Classic raids besides Classic WotLK Naxx, and if people min-maxed and excluded specs in Classic, you can imagine what will happen in harder expansions. As long as there are enough players playing meta specs to cover the raids and dungeons, there will be non-meta specs excluded.
    The problem starts with GMs though. Most do not recruit anything that is not top3 of their role.
    I played only a 60 druid in Classic, both Boomkin and Feral. Progressionwise I got up to where i wanted to be with C'thun on farm (as feral kittybear hybrid).
    But every single guilds i know had to axe "memes" with Naxx. Recruitment was only opened for fury warriors in my guild since p5. GM gradually Benched any other spec (included mages / rogues) as soon as more brown boyz came in. And we speak about players we raided with for a year or so getting benched for fresh brown meat. I was so pissed i quit Classic. The Meta just got worse and worse as phases came really.

    My advice to anyone who want to actively play outside of the box for a harder (but funnier imo) content is to start your own guild ignore the metaspecs and only go for lower ranked ones. You can't really trust most GMs because as content progress they get greedy and they got used to be showered by fast purples from Retail (most will never confess that, but that's where they come from).

    The other alternative if you're solo is to ignore PVE completely and go full in PVP where some of those specs really shine. That is what i will do for TBC.
    Last edited by Gratlim; 2021-04-07 at 10:30 AM.

  11. #51
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    No ... buffing hp and damage in raids to try to cater to the 2% who have played private servers for the last 10 years will not equal a huge success, it will just be a mess and just force specific comps with barley any freedom and it's just not what it was or what it should be.

    I've seen what these private servers did and how it ended up ... shit like making Morogrim's adds have 3 times more hp because guilds might run many locks and mages which in turn made it a requirement for everyone to run a lot of mages and warlocks to be able to clear.
    To be honest, I remember BC fights like the palm of my hand, after what, 15 years lol?

    With that knowledge, tuning them would simply be an adjustment to reality. Not a change.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    To be honest, I remember BC fights like the palm of my hand, after what, 15 years lol?

    With that knowledge, tuning them would simply be an adjustment to reality. Not a change.
    This is not how this works. The game isn't catered to YOUR skill level. It isn't catered to ANY specific person's skill level.

    So it would be a change, because you being better at the game is not a reason for it to change.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    You could do MC with questing greens and some people being 55. I doubt that earlier talents would have made it measureably more difficult.
    In the real Vanilla, warriors were trash tier more or less until AQ.

    In Classic, they tank as DPS.

    #Nochanges /sarcasm

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Gratlim View Post
    The problem starts with GMs though. Most do not recruit anything that is not top3 of their role.
    I played only a 60 druid in Classic, both Boomkin and Feral. Progressionwise I got up to where i wanted to be with C'thun on farm (as feral kittybear hybrid).
    But every single guilds i know had to axe "memes" with Naxx. Recruitment was only opened for fury warriors in my guild since p5. GM gradually Benched any other spec (included mages / rogues) as soon as more brown boyz came in. And we speak about players we raided with for a year or so getting benched for fresh brown meat. I was so pissed i quit Classic. The Meta just got worse and worse as phases came really.

    My advice to anyone who want to actively play outside of the box for a harder (but funnier imo) content is to start your own guild ignore the metaspecs and only go for lower ranked ones. You can't really trust most GMs because as content progress they get greedy and they got used to be showered by fast purples from Retail (most will never confess that, but that's where they come from).
    I could understand your sentiment fully until the bolded part. I am from retail.
    There is no backing up for that. For all I know, a lot of classic GMs could be some boomers who say that classic is "their game and retail is easy and for kids only", but there is no backing up for that either.

    Avoiding "meta" specs might come with problems, I really can see some people wanting to play a warlock just because they like it. I would recommend finding a guild and having your raid roster/bench based on attendance and performance, but not in a way of "well, warlocks are better so you are benched". Iif he comes to progress, if he does mechanics, does not stand in fire and if he is better than that other player who plays the same spec.

  15. #55
    Making content more difficult is never the right answer.

    It would be amusing to see the WildStar-ization of WoW going to its conclusion, though.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2021-04-07 at 11:09 AM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by epLe View Post
    In the real Vanilla, warriors were trash tier more or less until AQ.

    In Classic, they tank as DPS.

    #Nochanges /sarcasm
    dude, in real vanilla 1% cleared Naxx. Now you have GDKP runs in Naxx. Because if something was norm "in real" vanilla, it does not mean it would be now. There is no argument about that it made game easier by a margin. But How many players played "real vanilla"? I don't think Europe even had WoW until BWL was out.

    Think rationally and stop sperging out about some biased memories about "real game". U are damn grown man if u played vanilla, act like one.

  17. #57
    Raids should always be faceroll.

    Difficulty is never a good thing and would only be there as a way to increase played time.

    I just want to go in - get loot -Done.

    If you want progression and wipes go retail

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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    To be honest, I remember BC fights like the palm of my hand, after what, 15 years lol?

    With that knowledge, tuning them would simply be an adjustment to reality. Not a change.
    Adjustment to reality for whom? The people who only played TBC over the last 10 years on various private servers?

  19. #59
    I think thats a good idea for round 2. First time should just be fixes and removing the worst unintended problems.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by epLe View Post
    In the real Vanilla, warriors were trash tier more or less until AQ.

    In Classic, they tank as DPS.

    #Nochanges /sarcasm
    So what? You let your raid get to 60, farm some prebis and then oneshot every boss.

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