View Poll Results: Would you like to see increased raid difficulty?

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  • Yes

    53 28.80%
  • Doesn't matter for me

    26 14.13%
  • No

    105 57.07%
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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    What is illogical about his point ? That's exactly what's happening. People laugh about the game being too easy, but tryhard to the death to make it even easier, to the ridiculous extent of often putting more efforts in minmaxing and consummables and so on than it would take to clear the raid without said minmaxing.

    (though at the same time, despite all laughs about how easy the game is, only a minority of guilds can actually clear Naxx without the whole WB meta)

    No, they don't. I laugh at the game being too easy, but I don't tryhard to the death to make it even easier for example and I promise you I'm not the only one. Some players do, sure, but all? Of course not.

    Is that notion really so hard to grasp for some of you?

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    No, they don't. I laugh at the game being too easy, but I don't tryhard to the death to make it even easier for example and I promise you I'm not the only one. Some players do, sure, but all? Of course not.

    Is that notion really so hard to grasp for some of you?
    The point is most of the people asking it to be harder, are the same ones doing shit like gathering world buffs, as a majority of guilds out there right now are doing this. Christ even casual guilds are doing this.

    Why is THAT so hard for YOU to understand? Just because there might be a handful of people not gathering world buffs and stacking warriors doesn’t make what he said any less true. The majority of people try Harding and asking for tougher content, are the exact same people stacking warriors/flasks/world buffs, and they always tend to call classic raiding a joke.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowroguetbc View Post
    The point is most of the people asking it to be harder, are the same ones doing shit like gathering world buffs, as a majority of guilds out there right now are doing this. Christ even casual guilds are doing this.

    Why is THAT so hard for YOU to understand? Just because there might be a handful of people not gathering world buffs and stacking warriors doesn’t make what he said any less true. The majority of people try Harding and asking for tougher content, are the exact same people stacking warriors/flasks/world buffs, and they always tend to call classic raiding a joke.
    Those people have nothing to do with what I'm saying? So everybody here on this forum right now talking about how easy classic is/was are also the same people who are collecting world buffs and stacking fotm classes? No of course not, right? Dude was criticizing some guy here on the forums for talking about how easy classic was with this little ''steps'' so obviously he is assuming about all of us here too.

    It was just a silly and not very well thought out post (some of you are too eager to want to insult somebody else and don't think things through) and I felt like pointing it out.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Those people have nothing to do with what I'm saying? So everybody here on this forum right now talking about how easy classic is/was are also the same people who are collecting world buffs and stacking fotm classes? No of course not, right? Dude was criticizing some guy here on the forums for talking about how easy classic was with this little ''steps'' so obviously he is assuming about all of us here too.

    It was just a silly and not very well thought out post (some of you are too eager to want to insult somebody else and don't think things through) and I felt like pointing it out.
    /facepalm

    You know what man, you are right, he was talking about every single person to have ever asked for this change ever. Yup. That was exactly what he was saying...

    On a side note, maybe you might need to work on some social skills and some “reading between the lines” and see if what someone says might have a deeper meaning or message to it. Idk maybe something to think about.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by keelr View Post
    Do you think we need the increased difficulty for raid bosses? Classic raiding felt like a disaster for a lot because it was boring with the #nochanges campaign. Would you be okay with tuned up bosses for tbc classic or do you think prenerf will be enough challange?

    Most private servers offered harder bosses which were a huge success.
    Nah. I'd rather they added transmog to TBC Classic than this.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by epLe View Post
    In the real Vanilla, warriors were trash tier more or less until AQ.

    In Classic, they tank as DPS.

    #Nochanges /sarcasm
    That's because we know a lot more nowdays.

    I doubt Warriors were focusing hit rating in Vanilla as much as they do in classic.

    and hit rating is what gives you that mad dps.

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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowroguetbc View Post
    /facepalm

    You know what man, you are right, he was talking about every single person to have ever asked for this change ever. Yup. That was exactly what he was saying...

    On a side note, maybe you might need to work on some social skills and some “reading between the lines” and see if what someone says might have a deeper meaning or message to it. Idk maybe something to think about.
    Yea no you are right then. Nobody at all can ever criticize how easy Classic is because a few sweaty guilds stack world buffs and fotm specs....

    There's some logical circuits functioning for ya lmao

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Yea no you are right then. Nobody at all can ever criticize how easy Classic is because a few sweaty guilds stack world buffs and fotm specs....

    There's some logical circuits functioning for ya lmao
    Yup, nail —-> head

    You 100% understood what this guy was saying friend

  9. #69
    I would like to see it as close to original pre-nerfs as possible. But I'll happily play it in any iteration, it's not incredibly important to me. Maybe they could buff the last few raids.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    You could do MC with questing greens and some people being 55. I doubt that earlier talents would have made it measureably more difficult.
    As Niwes says below, the classic wow we have is not the same as vanilla, many players systems were buffed and it had nerfed bosses and mobs before naxx.
    Yes in classic, molten core was cleared in greens, in vanilla it might have been. People will say they did it but I'd like to see the evidence. Vanilla raiding was harder than classic also due to fps and internet speeds being much slower. We don't have that problem now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    Raids should always be faceroll.

    Difficulty is never a good thing and would only be there as a way to increase played time.

    I just want to go in - get loot -Done.

    If you want progression and wipes go retail
    So by that logic easy raids are going to decrease played time so much that, is all the effort worth it. Getting attuned for example only to clear fast. Where is the prestige for clearing easy content, it is meaningless. Even more when the vast majority of players have already seen the content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    i always read in this thread something about „nochanges“ and „Vanilla/Classic too easy“.

    you all should just realize ONE simple thing:

    Classic was NOWHERE and NEVER a #nochanges thing. it was delivered with 1.13. this was not the case in original Vanilla. this IS a change. you cant say „nochanges“ and deliver a game with a completely another patch version not apropriate to the intro raids. and wonder why bosses are stupid easy...

    and i cant hear that many ppl whining about naxx same easy as they whined about how easy MC/BWL was (world buffs besides). ofc! original game did not delivered MC with 1.13. so i have no clue how ppl ever can agree wow classic is „nochanges“.
    I am sure a small buff to boss and mob damage and health would be a good thing. The pre nerf plan is not enough for bosses that were not nerfed in the first place. They were not all over tuned. Even heroics are in a nerfed state in patch 2.4, that needs reverting. People on here are overreacting. Making the raids a little harder is not the same as making them mythic like; it's a sliding scale.

    It could be done sensibly and tried on beta. Classic was a success but compared to what? Blizzard were reluctant to do it so they had low expectations. Classic populations fell fast as many players found the lack of challenge boring and unrewarding. To prolong the life of tbc they must make small buffs like suggested.

    Why do people find it rewarding clearing a challenging raid? It requires working as a team, concentration, gear, dps checks and rewards prestige earned together. Like I said, I'm not talking about making them mythic, but just a little more spice.
    Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Joycemiester View Post

    So by that logic easy raids are going to decrease played time so much that, is all the effort worth it. Getting attuned for example only to clear fast. Where is the prestige for clearing easy content, it is meaningless. Even more when the vast majority of players have already seen the content.


    "Prestige" and "accomplishments" are dumb concepts overall.

    Only reason to do raids is to increase your characters power.

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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    "Prestige" and "accomplishments" are dumb concepts overall.

    Only reason to do raids is to increase your characters power.
    Lol I only increase my characters power to clear the raids. Other than that idgaf about loot.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by keelr View Post
    Do you think we need the increased difficulty for raid bosses? Classic raiding felt like a disaster for a lot because it was boring with the #nochanges campaign. Would you be okay with tuned up bosses for tbc classic or do you think prenerf will be enough challange?

    Most private servers offered harder bosses which were a huge success.
    Honestly i find that "difficulty" is only a minor factor when considering whether something is fun.

    I mean certainly it should not be too easy, but if you look up everything beforehand and arrive there with the best possible preparation, then who is the one that decided things should be easy?

    Certainly not Blizzard; you did that.

    You want to make it as hard as it was back then? Replicate the situation back then, levels of knowledge and social involvement included.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    You could do MC with questing greens and some people being 55. I doubt that earlier talents would have made it measureably more difficult.
    and you think in 2005 ppl were THAT stupid and things THAT „new“ that accidentally NOONE could do that? i mean: ok, in 2005, maybe. but in 2006, when content was a year old, or in the first year of TBC, ppl would had done the same (or nearly the same). and noone evr raided MC in greens back in the days. wether in 2005, nor 2006, nor 2007. i play wow nearly since 16 years, without any sub interruption (yes, i have that bronze orc), and i am sure as hell, noone raided Mc in greens, nor were the ppl magically stupid like apes at this time.

    i dont know why ppl think, the ppl of 2006 where MILLIONS more stupid in gaming than ppl in 2020. its not like Doc Brown tripping with a time machine into the 12th century and smoking a cigarette, using a lighter, and all the ppls there going „omg a magician“...

    the relations in the game was just different. wow classic != vanilla wow. that engine and the ingame relations are totally difficult. its not even Vanilla 1.13 in MC. its wow classic 1.13 in MC. its a complete different thing in detail, even when looking totally the same.

    wow classic in 2020 is simply NOT THE SAME as Vanilla wow in 2005. simple as that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Joycemiester View Post
    As Niwes says below, the classic wow we have is not the same as vanilla, many players systems were buffed and it had nerfed bosses and mobs before naxx.
    Yes in classic, molten core was cleared in greens, in vanilla it might have been. People will say they did it but I'd like to see the evidence. Vanilla raiding was harder than classic also due to fps and internet speeds being much slower. We don't have that problem now.



    So by that logic easy raids are going to decrease played time so much that, is all the effort worth it. Getting attuned for example only to clear fast. Where is the prestige for clearing easy content, it is meaningless. Even more when the vast majority of players have already seen the content.



    I am sure a small buff to boss and mob damage and health would be a good thing. The pre nerf plan is not enough for bosses that were not nerfed in the first place. They were not all over tuned. Even heroics are in a nerfed state in patch 2.4, that needs reverting. People on here are overreacting. Making the raids a little harder is not the same as making them mythic like; it's a sliding scale.

    It could be done sensibly and tried on beta. Classic was a success but compared to what? Blizzard were reluctant to do it so they had low expectations. Classic populations fell fast as many players found the lack of challenge boring and unrewarding. To prolong the life of tbc they must make small buffs like suggested.

    Why do people find it rewarding clearing a challenging raid? It requires working as a team, concentration, gear, dps checks and rewards prestige earned together. Like I said, I'm not talking about making them mythic, but just a little more spice.
    yep, exactly same opinion here. especially on the last part. well said.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2021-04-07 at 11:40 PM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by archelos91 View Post
    Lol I only increase my characters power to clear the raids. Other than that idgaf about loot.
    Every raid could be a completely white box and every boss could be a bullet sponge target dummy.. and i could not care less as long as it drops loot.

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  16. #76
    People don't play classic because they want a challenge. So making the bosses harder would only take away from what most ppl are trying to accomplish in classic.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    and you think in 2005 ppl were THAT stupid and things THAT „new“ that accidentally NOONE could do that? i mean: ok, in 2005, maybe. but in 2006, when content was a year old, or in the first year of TBC, ppl would had done the same (or nearly the same). and noone evr raided MC in greens back in the days. wether in 2005, nor 2006, nor 2007. i play wow nearly since 16 years, without any sub interruption (yes, i have that bronze orc), and i am sure as hell, noone raided Mc in greens, nor were the ppl magically stupid like apes at this time.

    i dont know why ppl think, the ppl of 2006 where MILLIONS more stupid in gaming than ppl in 2020. its not like Doc Brown tripping with a time machine into the 12th century and smoking a cigarette, using a lighter, and all the ppls there going „omg a magician“...

    the relations in the game was just different. wow classic != vanilla wow. that engine and the ingame relations are totally difficult. its not even Vanilla 1.13 in MC. its wow classic 1.13 in MC. its a complete different thing in detail, even when looking totally the same.

    wow classic in 2020 is simply NOT THE SAME as Vanilla wow in 2005. simple as that.

    - - - Updated - - -



    yep, exactly same opinion here. especially on the last part. well said.
    Yes exactly. People were bad, not because they are stupid. Because wow skill is highly dependent on knowledge. We are playing 1.12. So atleast phase 6 is on a even playing ground with vanilla.

  18. #78

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    Yes exactly. People were bad, not because they are stupid. Because wow skill is highly dependent on knowledge. We are playing 1.12. So atleast phase 6 is on a even playing ground with vanilla.
    Actually no, since Naxx was released with patch 1.11.
    And you clearly don't even know what you are talking about: classic is patch 12 of vanilla WoW. New and much improved talents and skills which made your character about twice as powerful. Nerfed bosses and raids and instances (check out Scholo in an early patch and later, where about 2/3 of all mobs had been removed). Severely buffed items, about twice as good. There was no spell-power on greens and blues until patch 10 or 11 or so. It was a ridiculous oversight, to release Classic like this! It has become a huge snoozefest.

    There was just no way to beat Ragnaros with greens and without fire resistance gear. (Yes this was in the game and a whole corresponding faction, for a reason.) Some now even beat him in blues before the sons phase... Laughable!
    Do you really believe the best guilds back then did just wipe for fun for 6 months on a piss easy boss like this?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    Every raid could be a completely white box and every boss could be a bullet sponge target dummy.. and i could not care less as long as it drops loot.
    Can i ask whats the point of having the loot then? Lol

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by archelos91 View Post
    Can i ask whats the point of having the loot then? Lol
    To become stronger and kill things faster?

    Dungeons, Daily quests & General farming all go faster with better gear.

    Also the bullet sponge dummy would die faster with higher gear.

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