Poll: Increased raid difficulty in TBC Classic

[Wedny22]

Step 1; Laugh at classic being lfr easy
Step 2; Do everything humanly possible to further trivialize said content (minmax buff galore, class stacking, etc), no matter how sweaty nerd process it is
Step 3; Rage how easy and boring the content is and how it's a disaster
= gg

I swear some peoples logic circuits are not functioning.

Haha, this is perfect example of classic! Its perfect!

On topic: Just some QOL stuff, leave the game Alone. I love TBC to death, but i not gonna play it, simply because of the min/max culture there is in classic. Yes, i could Find a guild, but i did everything in tbc and honestly, i dont wanna do it speedwagon mode.
So, have fun in TBC!

[Daymanmb]

My raiding team had both ret paladins and boomkin druids throughout classic and we cleared naxx the second week. This would not have happened if the raids were harder

I doubt you had multiples of either and cleared Naxx week 2.

[Xykotic]

TBC wasn't really about the challenge. More about the journey.
I think we're good w/ old pre-nerfed health numbers. Dont need anything more. Sunwell will be decently difficult. I would be surprised if even 50% of raiding guilds managed to reach Sunwell, let alone clear it.

[Akka]

What a weird post. And you talk about logic circuits not functioning?

What is illogical about his point ? That's exactly what's happening. People laugh about the game being too easy, but tryhard to the death to make it even easier, to the ridiculous extent of often putting more efforts in minmaxing and consummables and so on than it would take to clear the raid without said minmaxing.

(though at the same time, despite all laughs about how easy the game is, only a minority of guilds can actually clear Naxx without the whole WB meta)

[Niwes]

i always read in this thread something about „nochanges“ and „Vanilla/Classic too easy“.

you all should just realize ONE simple thing:

Classic was NOWHERE and NEVER a #nochanges thing. it was delivered with 1.13. this was not the case in original Vanilla. this IS a change. you cant say „nochanges“ and deliver a game with a completely another patch version not apropriate to the intro raids. and wonder why bosses are stupid easy...

and i cant hear that many ppl whining about naxx same easy as they whined about how easy MC/BWL was (world buffs besides). ofc! original game did not delivered MC with 1.13. so i have no clue how ppl ever can agree wow classic is „nochanges“.

[Nite92]

i always read in this thread something about „nochanges“ and „Vanilla/Classic too easy“.

you all should just realize ONE simple thing:

Classic was NOWHERE and NEVER a #nochanges thing. it was delivered with 1.13. this was not the case in original Vanilla. this IS a change. you cant say „nochanges“ and deliver a game with a completely another patch version not apropriate to the intro raids. and wonder why bosses are stupid easy...

and i cant hear that many ppl whining about naxx same easy as they whined about how easy MC/BWL was (world buffs besides). ofc! original game did not delivered MC with 1.13. so i have no clue how ppl ever can agree wow classic is „nochanges“.

You could do MC with questing greens and some people being 55. I doubt that earlier talents would have made it measureably more difficult.

[Gratlim]

There was no need to do it in classic. Like literally absolutely no need to min max to that extent. But people did. It will never be easier than Classic raids besides Classic WotLK Naxx, and if people min-maxed and excluded specs in Classic, you can imagine what will happen in harder expansions. As long as there are enough players playing meta specs to cover the raids and dungeons, there will be non-meta specs excluded.

The problem starts with GMs though. Most do not recruit anything that is not top3 of their role.
I played only a 60 druid in Classic, both Boomkin and Feral. Progressionwise I got up to where i wanted to be with C'thun on farm (as feral kittybear hybrid).
But every single guilds i know had to axe "memes" with Naxx. Recruitment was only opened for fury warriors in my guild since p5. GM gradually Benched any other spec (included mages / rogues) as soon as more brown boyz came in. And we speak about players we raided with for a year or so getting benched for fresh brown meat. I was so pissed i quit Classic. The Meta just got worse and worse as phases came really.

My advice to anyone who want to actively play outside of the box for a harder (but funnier imo) content is to start your own guild ignore the metaspecs and only go for lower ranked ones. You can't really trust most GMs because as content progress they get greedy and they got used to be showered by fast purples from Retail (most will never confess that, but that's where they come from).

The other alternative if you're solo is to ignore PVE completely and go full in PVP where some of those specs really shine. That is what i will do for TBC.

[shise]

No ... buffing hp and damage in raids to try to cater to the 2% who have played private servers for the last 10 years will not equal a huge success, it will just be a mess and just force specific comps with barley any freedom and it's just not what it was or what it should be.

I've seen what these private servers did and how it ended up ... shit like making Morogrim's adds have 3 times more hp because guilds might run many locks and mages which in turn made it a requirement for everyone to run a lot of mages and warlocks to be able to clear.

To be honest, I remember BC fights like the palm of my hand, after what, 15 years lol?

With that knowledge, tuning them would simply be an adjustment to reality. Not a change.

[epLe]

You could do MC with questing greens and some people being 55. I doubt that earlier talents would have made it measureably more difficult.

In the real Vanilla, warriors were trash tier more or less until AQ.

In Classic, they tank as DPS.

#Nochanges /sarcasm

[erifwodahs]

The problem starts with GMs though. Most do not recruit anything that is not top3 of their role.
I played only a 60 druid in Classic, both Boomkin and Feral. Progressionwise I got up to where i wanted to be with C'thun on farm (as feral kittybear hybrid).
But every single guilds i know had to axe "memes" with Naxx. Recruitment was only opened for fury warriors in my guild since p5. GM gradually Benched any other spec (included mages / rogues) as soon as more brown boyz came in. And we speak about players we raided with for a year or so getting benched for fresh brown meat. I was so pissed i quit Classic. The Meta just got worse and worse as phases came really.

My advice to anyone who want to actively play outside of the box for a harder (but funnier imo) content is to start your own guild ignore the metaspecs and only go for lower ranked ones. You can't really trust most GMs because as content progress they get greedy and they got used to be showered by fast purples from Retail (most will never confess that, but that's where they come from).

I could understand your sentiment fully until the bolded part. I am from retail.
There is no backing up for that. For all I know, a lot of classic GMs could be some boomers who say that classic is "their game and retail is easy and for kids only", but there is no backing up for that either.

Avoiding "meta" specs might come with problems, I really can see some people wanting to play a warlock just because they like it. I would recommend finding a guild and having your raid roster/bench based on attendance and performance, but not in a way of "well, warlocks are better so you are benched". Iif he comes to progress, if he does mechanics, does not stand in fire and if he is better than that other player who plays the same spec.

[Osmeric]

Making content more difficult is never the right answer.

It would be amusing to see the WildStar-ization of WoW going to its conclusion, though.

[erifwodahs]

In the real Vanilla, warriors were trash tier more or less until AQ.

In Classic, they tank as DPS.

#Nochanges /sarcasm

dude, in real vanilla 1% cleared Naxx. Now you have GDKP runs in Naxx. Because if something was norm "in real" vanilla, it does not mean it would be now. There is no argument about that it made game easier by a margin. But How many players played "real vanilla"? I don't think Europe even had WoW until BWL was out.

Think rationally and stop sperging out about some biased memories about "real game". U are damn grown man if u played vanilla, act like one.

[Nalam the Venom]

Raids should always be faceroll.

Difficulty is never a good thing and would only be there as a way to increase played time.

I just want to go in - get loot -Done.

If you want progression and wipes go retail

[kranur]

To be honest, I remember BC fights like the palm of my hand, after what, 15 years lol?

With that knowledge, tuning them would simply be an adjustment to reality. Not a change.

Adjustment to reality for whom? The people who only played TBC over the last 10 years on various private servers?

[owbu]

I think thats a good idea for round 2. First time should just be fixes and removing the worst unintended problems.

[Nite92]

In the real Vanilla, warriors were trash tier more or less until AQ.

In Classic, they tank as DPS.

#Nochanges /sarcasm

So what? You let your raid get to 60, farm some prebis and then oneshot every boss.

[shadowroguetbc]

No, they don't. I laugh at the game being too easy, but I don't tryhard to the death to make it even easier for example and I promise you I'm not the only one. Some players do, sure, but all? Of course not.

Is that notion really so hard to grasp for some of you?

The point is most of the people asking it to be harder, are the same ones doing shit like gathering world buffs, as a majority of guilds out there right now are doing this. Christ even casual guilds are doing this.

Why is THAT so hard for YOU to understand? Just because there might be a handful of people not gathering world buffs and stacking warriors doesn’t make what he said any less true. The majority of people try Harding and asking for tougher content, are the exact same people stacking warriors/flasks/world buffs, and they always tend to call classic raiding a joke.

[shadowroguetbc]

Those people have nothing to do with what I'm saying? So everybody here on this forum right now talking about how easy classic is/was are also the same people who are collecting world buffs and stacking fotm classes? No of course not, right? Dude was criticizing some guy here on the forums for talking about how easy classic was with this little ''steps'' so obviously he is assuming about all of us here too.

It was just a silly and not very well thought out post (some of you are too eager to want to insult somebody else and don't think things through) and I felt like pointing it out.

/facepalm

You know what man, you are right, he was talking about every single person to have ever asked for this change ever. Yup. That was exactly what he was saying...

On a side note, maybe you might need to work on some social skills and some “reading between the lines” and see if what someone says might have a deeper meaning or message to it. Idk maybe something to think about.

[Logwyn]

Do you think we need the increased difficulty for raid bosses? Classic raiding felt like a disaster for a lot because it was boring with the #nochanges campaign. Would you be okay with tuned up bosses for tbc classic or do you think prenerf will be enough challange?

Most private servers offered harder bosses which were a huge success.

Nah. I'd rather they added transmog to TBC Classic than this.

[Nalam the Venom]

In the real Vanilla, warriors were trash tier more or less until AQ.

In Classic, they tank as DPS.

#Nochanges /sarcasm

That's because we know a lot more nowdays.

I doubt Warriors were focusing hit rating in Vanilla as much as they do in classic.

and hit rating is what gives you that mad dps.