1. #2001
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Maybe because the game had periods that were quite different but your selfish and entitled kind complained so much that we have the current state of the game. So maybe look in the mirror sometimes.
    And the game director for World of Warcraft had this to say today:

    - Power level from item rating has not changed even since Wrath.
    - 1 item level is basically the equivalent of 1%.
    - If there is such a big gap between players 20 item levels apart, it is more likely a skill issue.


    So we now have not only players saying that this narrative of "I get ruined by players 10 ilvls above me and this has never ever been the case in wows history ever" is absolutely not true, but the director of the game is outright saying it as well. When will players start to look at themselves and say "well shit, maybe they are genuinely just better than me at this game" instead of "yeah well its not fair because they have better gear than me".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    That is the case, when what a non-competitive player is allowed would only get them smashed in a random BG.
    See above - You have claimed multiple times there is no point going into random bgs because you will get smashed by geared players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I'm sure you could find a guild that only raids normal. Same difficulty raids. Can tryhard if u like but no need. No need to pick best spec. All the social of classic can be found in guilds in retail
    For YEARS I was part of a casual normal / heroic group of friends, outside of my main raid team. They always cleared all of normal, and typically cleared all of heroic, although there were a couple of exceptions. Zero "requirements" other than being appropriately geared (eg not in normal dungeon gear asking for a spot in heroic raid clear). We never once had a group composition issue - not once. We once ran 3 x resto shaman as our healing time. We ran 2 bear tanks, we ran 2 dk tanks when "no one" was playing blood. Everyone has husbands/wives and kids, full time jobs, other hobbies and commitments like sport. Never once was any of this an issue, and i consider it the norm for a heroic/normal mode guild.

    Sadly, due to the increase in popularity of M+, and the focus on pugging normal mode in particular, it did get hard maintaining a roster towards the end of BFA, so there was often 2-5 pugs coming along as well - again, no issue at all. We kicked a few dickheads, the odd person would leave for w/e reason, but for the most part, it was absolutely fine and quite enjoyable.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2021-04-28 at 12:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  2. #2002
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    And the game director for World of Warcraft had this to say today:

    - Power level from item rating has not changed even since Wrath.
    - 1 item level is basically the equivalent of 1%.
    - If there is such a big gap between players 20 item levels apart, it is more likely a skill issue.


    So we now have not only players saying that this narrative of "I get ruined by players 10 ilvls above me and this has never ever been the case in wows history ever" is absolutely not true, but the director of the game is outright saying it as well. When will players start to look at themselves and say "well shit, maybe they are genuinely just better than me at this game" instead of "yeah well its not fair because they have better gear than me".

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    See above - You have claimed multiple times there is no point going into random bgs because you will get smashed by geared players.

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    For YEARS I was part of a casual normal / heroic group of friends, outside of my main raid team. They always cleared all of normal, and typically cleared all of heroic, although there were a couple of exceptions. Zero "requirements" other than being appropriately geared (eg not in normal dungeon gear asking for a spot in heroic raid clear). We never once had a group composition issue - not once. We once ran 3 x resto shaman as our healing time. We ran 2 bear tanks, we ran 2 dk tanks when "no one" was playing blood. Everyone has husbands/wives and kids, full time jobs, other hobbies and commitments like sport. Never once was any of this an issue, and i consider it the norm for a heroic/normal mode guild.

    Sadly, due to the increase in popularity of M+, and the focus on pugging normal mode in particular, it did get hard maintaining a roster towards the end of BFA, so there was often 2-5 pugs coming along as well - again, no issue at all. We kicked a few dickheads, the odd person would leave for w/e reason, but for the most part, it was absolutely fine and quite enjoyable.
    Ya I just think it's funny to me that ppl look for the socialness they crave in pugs. Instead of finding the right guild.

    As for ions comment, I agree. But those ppl hes referring to are just gonna double down. With fingers in their ears and call ion an elitist dick lol

  3. #2003
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Ya I just think it's funny to me that ppl look for the socialness they crave in pugs. Instead of finding the right guild.

    As for ions comment, I agree. But those ppl hes referring to are just gonna double down. With fingers in their ears and call ion an elitist dick lol
    During bfa, there was a group of 3 friends who really tired of the game, as we really just wanted to play together, but didnt want to pug 2 for M+ or 7+ for raids, so we stopped playing, and played Coop games instead, designed specifically to cater to groups from 1-4 players. We played Ghost Recon: Wildlands from start to finish coop, and had an absolute blast. We then did some more raiding, but again grew tired, so again stopped playing, and this time, we played Division 2 right through coop, and a fair bit of endgame too.

    The point im making is, when i felt the game wasnt providing an experience that synced up well with my desires, I did NOT attack Blizzard, attack the playerbase, make wild claims about the world being against me - we found something that DID suit our needs, and had a blast. Requests for minor changes or iterations of systems is fine, i think its a healthy discussion to have. On the other hand, hyperbole, strawman arguments, exaggerations, and outright lies do nothing but turn people against not just you, but your "cause".

    Recently it has reached peak "wtf?" with players who openly admit they have not purchased or played SL at all, not even once, telling us all how bad the community is, how they cant find groups, how they will get 1 shotted by everyone in bgs because they are 10 ilvls above them. I would like to think Ions comments, in particular the one about ilvls being much the same as in wrath, and the 20 ilvl gap comment would go a long way to encouraging some of these individuals to turn the lens on themselves and ask "maybe I have slipped - maybe I just used to be better?!?"
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Any sane person would see your a moron.
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    you have to be a moron to of said .

  4. #2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    When? I have been playing since the end of WoD and at no time since has there been a system that allowed people to skip dungeons and raids and still get the best loot in the game. I can't speak for the time before, but I very much doubt it since raids and dungeons are the core of the game since forever and even if, that would be 6-7 years ago, maybe time to let it go and find a game that gives you the free loot you so desperately crave.



    Strange, I only see threads from the other side loudly complaining that WQs and LFR do not award them with Mythic Raid gear. I personally haven't been complaining about anything in the game (apart from the story at times) because it works as intended and does so ever since Legion.
    Mythic Plus offers an endlessly playable system to do with my guild mates, Raids have been good, class balance is much better then in any other game and the QoL of the game is incredibly superior to all other MMOs I played. Of course I wouldn't mind better graphics and transmog options, but they are steadily improving.

    So, I am not the one that feels the entire system of the game needs to be changed to accomodate my wishes. It just needs to remain as it is, rewarding those that engage in playing and not those that feel entitled to BiS loot for paying their sub.
    Well i guess we only see what we want to see.

    In Cata and MOP you could get Tier sets out of LFR, in Wrath you had tokens for doing normal heroics that could buy you raid equivalent gear and so on. Even last expansion the Warfronts gave out pretty high gear.
    But your people complained endlessly about "welfare gear" (and that is funny in itself since they seem to love the "welfare but only for the rich" thing we have running right now) and that they have to do the casual stuff to be competetive so it got nerfed time and time again. It's at a lowpoint now because of all that complaining last expansion.
    Job well done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    And the game director for World of Warcraft had this to say today:

    - Power level from item rating has not changed even since Wrath.
    - 1 item level is basically the equivalent of 1%.
    - If there is such a big gap between players 20 item levels apart, it is more likely a skill issue.


    So we now have not only players saying that this narrative of "I get ruined by players 10 ilvls above me and this has never ever been the case in wows history ever" is absolutely not true, but the director of the game is outright saying it as well. When will players start to look at themselves and say "well shit, maybe they are genuinely just better than me at this game" instead of "yeah well its not fair because they have better gear than me".
    Was that directed at me? I never said anything about "getting ruined by players 10 ilvls above me" or anything of that sorts.

  5. #2005
    Because the acquired to get better loot and the difficulty and the time investment is the difference between how long you are subbed and thats why blizzard does this like every other mmo
    I dont know what supposed skiller player say and i frankly dont care, its not like blizzard makes those decisions according to them we had literally a interview a day ago where the game director dabbed on the mhytic raiders, lol

  6. #2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    I agree. The high end players in WoW care way too much about what everyone else has and how everyone else plays the game instead of focusing on themselves.
    They dont xd could you guys start referring to the people that actually complain with another name? you guys dont know what high end even is and use the word around like nothing, so ill leave it clear, the actual high end players dont care about the gear or the progression you get cause it doesnt interfere with their content, you want more progression cause you are hardstuck on 200 ilvl? cool, this isnt the fault of the high end players, players that finished their progression months ago and only care about w/e the changes on the PTR are while you care about the stuff thats on live servers, so get your facts straight for once.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Well i guess we only see what we want to see.

    In Cata and MOP you could get Tier sets out of LFR, in Wrath you had tokens for doing normal heroics that could buy you raid equivalent gear and so on. Even last expansion the Warfronts gave out pretty high gear.
    But your people complained endlessly about "welfare gear" (and that is funny in itself since they seem to love the "welfare but only for the rich" thing we have running right now) and that they have to do the casual stuff to be competetive so it got nerfed time and time again. It's at a lowpoint now because of all that complaining last expansion.
    Job well done.
    Im just gonna quote this from another thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    You weren't getting much 264 from 2 a day Frost badges and T10 set piece base items off the vendor was 251 and H ICC 25 loot was 277 - the same 26 ilvl gap as today. And ArP scaling meant many badge 264 pieces were shit compared to ICC 25N ArP loot, let alone H 25 ICC loot. Your dream state didn't ever exist really as there was a decently aggressive glass ceiling for casual players in WOTLK too. Not quite as aggressive as it is today, but the difference between the two is less than you'd think I believe.
    Raid quality gear =/= being close to mythic raiders

    Truth is, you never were, it seems like you guys are the ones that only see what you want to see, with your memory betraying you here and there, maybe every 200 ilvl piece you have should say "Castle Nathria equivalent gear" instead also high end players only complained about the "cant trade stuff" part of titanforging, since it resulted in situations where you couldnt give away another guildie BiS, and this happened way too often.

  7. #2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Well i guess we only see what we want to see.

    In Cata and MOP you could get Tier sets out of LFR
    Oh of the same ilvl as Mythic Raid gear? I very much doubt that somehow. You go Tier sets in LFR even in Legion. But the Ilvl difference still existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    in Wrath you had tokens for doing normal heroics that could buy you raid equivalent gear and so on.
    From what I gathered these Tokens could only be used to buy gear equivalent of 10m Normal gear. Which at the time was the lowest raiding level. For us that would be LFR gear of 184. WQs and the Campaign give you higher gear then that.

    Now here is the kicker: Normal Raids in SLs give you ilvl 200 gear. The Covenant Set you can upgrade without ever setting foot in a dungeon can be upgraded to 197.

    That's three Ilvls difference. 3. Add a legendary that you can farm again without ever engaging in group content and boom, you are at or above 200 ilvl, just like the Normal Raider is.

    So where is the problem? According to your own examples everything is fine. You can gain Raid-equivalent loot just like this. And even easier then in the past.

    The only reason people are not satified with this is that they want the best gear in the game, without putting in the effort to get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    But your people complained endlessly about "welfare gear" (and that is funny in itself since they seem to love the "welfare but only for the rich" thing we have running right now) and that they have to do the casual stuff to be competetive so it got nerfed time and time again. It's at a lowpoint now because of all that complaining last expansion.
    Job well done.
    Again, I did not complain about that, so I am not sure who "my people" are. And how exactly do we have "welfare for the rich" now? Did I miss my free set of 226 gear in the mail? Hate when that happens.

    No, the people you call "the rich" have grinded for their gear for month, min-maxed, enchanted, socketed. Doing at least 10 M+ 14s a week, every week and clearing the heroic raid every week. In short they worked for their stuff and hard.

    Not sure how that makes it welfare in your eyes. Think you are mixing something up or you don't know what you are talking about.

  8. #2008
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post

    Recently it has reached peak "wtf?" with players who openly admit they have not purchased or played SL at all, not even once, telling us all how bad the community is, how they cant find groups, how they will get 1 shotted by everyone in bgs because they are 10 ilvls above them. I would like to think Ions comments, in particular the one about ilvls being much the same as in wrath, and the 20 ilvl gap comment would go a long way to encouraging some of these individuals to turn the lens on themselves and ask "maybe I have slipped - maybe I just used to be better?!?"
    They were never better, its memory fallacy or call it whatever, or "Mah experience" as i call it.

    People always remember when they did something they consider "out of the ordinary", even if it has no value at all in the reality of the game, its the same with people posting "I finally did a +10" and you go "Huh, what about a +10 is even remotely worth discussing?", but its their experience and you cant take it from them.

    Its like an amateur football team winning their local football league between 40 year olds on Saturdays only, since everyone is working which has no value at all, but they are acting like they won the Champion League every time its mentioned and you cant understand wtf is going on in their minds.

    The random casual PvPer remember when he was given free gear at some point in the game, and he used to 1 shot the people that havent farmed yet/alts etc, now that this is happening to him, he is complaining.

    They dont remember that it took them 1-2 months back then and it was the same, and then they were doing it to others, all that matters is that now because they grew up and play less, this "Why aint i 1 shotting people as i used to", takes longer to achieve, what is easier? Use common sense, or complain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post

    The only reason people are not satified with this is that they want the best gear in the game, without putting in the effort to get it.
    Its not even that, the arguments have reached new levels.

    The arguments literally reached "I want a system where it counts how long i have been logged on and i am given a Mythic raider equivalent item cause i pay for a sub and it shouldnt matter what i do in game, i pay."
    Last edited by potis; 2021-04-28 at 10:07 AM.

  9. #2009
    OMG 101 page! wow! never think this can generate so much comment
    Btw when i create this post, was because my brother that play wow in a mythic guild 8/10 get super mad at me back when i created this post because i dropped a good trinket from denathrius hc (that i have done with his help i admit), and he know that after i got my 10/10 hc i'll have frozen, so he got mad as hell.
    In respond to his madness i say to him "bro, if i can pass it i will for sure, but ffs why the best item that can have helped me before drop only at the end when i quit?"

    Sry for the wrong use of casual btw, i should have use bad player instead

    And to comment the recent "200-220ilvl difference is 20% and so skill matter most"
    FOR SURE!!!! But tell me this: what is the easiest:
    Increase a flat 20% raw power of a bad player so he can pass his goal (complete normal/hc)
    Increase an unknow lvl of skill of a bad player so he can pass his goal (complete normal/hc)

    Bye all btw, i move as suggested to other game, and i find lootershooter a good home for me (the division 2 in particular)

  10. #2010
    Warchief Freedom's Avatar
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    I'll just repost this from another thread-
    "So I remember being perfectly happy to farm MC in Vanilla to get T1 and feel like a badass for having killed Nefarian once (lol). And I'd inspect all the players with AQ40/Naxx gear and be envious, but still happy overall with the game. Now people can't even tolerate a number being higher, let alone lower players generally not having access to cool looking gear in Vanilla, whereas now even if you're in quest greens you can look pretty cool thanks to old content and transmog. And yes, I remember being mad that the Tauren hunter in T2 could easily beat me in PVP, but that wasn't THE reason that I quit back then.

    Is this just an overall cultural shift in both WoW and IRL that people whine for equality rather than saying, "Yes, that is a nice Mercedes, and I am just thankful for what I have" or am I some sort of weirdo for having had these attitudes back then, let alone now?"

    Honestly if you simply cannot enjoy the current game at all due to inequality then I don't know how you ever enjoyed the game. Like @Frozenbro's statement- there was, is and always will be gear and skill gaps. Even if the game were simplified to the point that all you did was press 1 button to DPS, there would be top parsers who press that button more often than Johhny B Bad who presses it half as much. You dislike something so much, it's either time to step up your game or quit like I did early Legion. Being without WoW is not going to end you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Ok, I give up. This is pointless.
    Many Multitudes Online Constantly Harping About Minor Problems
    FIRE GIVES ME BIGGER BLOOD SHIELDS

  11. #2011
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I'm sure you could find a guild that only raids normal. Same difficulty raids. Can tryhard if u like but no need. No need to pick best spec. All the social of classic can be found in guilds in retail
    Yeah they can, but they are far between and in the muddle of everything its diffcult to spot em. With cross realm theres so many guilds floating around. I might give it another shot when 9.1 is out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    I'll just repost this from another thread-
    "So I remember being perfectly happy to farm MC in Vanilla to get T1 and feel like a badass for having killed Nefarian once (lol). And I'd inspect all the players with AQ40/Naxx gear and be envious, but still happy overall with the game. Now people can't even tolerate a number being higher, let alone lower players generally not having access to cool looking gear in Vanilla, whereas now even if you're in quest greens you can look pretty cool thanks to old content and transmog. And yes, I remember being mad that the Tauren hunter in T2 could easily beat me in PVP, but that wasn't THE reason that I quit back then.

    Is this just an overall cultural shift in both WoW and IRL that people whine for equality rather than saying, "Yes, that is a nice Mercedes, and I am just thankful for what I have" or am I some sort of weirdo for having had these attitudes back then, let alone now?"

    Honestly if you simply cannot enjoy the current game at all due to inequality then I don't know how you ever enjoyed the game. Like @Frozenbro's statement- there was, is and always will be gear and skill gaps. Even if the game were simplified to the point that all you did was press 1 button to DPS, there would be top parsers who press that button more often than Johhny B Bad who presses it half as much. You dislike something so much, it's either time to step up your game or quit like I did early Legion. Being without WoW is not going to end you.
    Back then killing bosses like nefarian was considered a cool thing to do, even though newer raids dropped better gear. I played back then too and raided everything except naxx. I enjoyed kill Ragnaros every week, even though he didnt drop anything worthwhile for me. I also remember the raids not really being that hard, except having to coordinate 40 people(get them raid ready, farm stuff etc). When all raids were out in vanilla I would still do them. It was fun banter with guild.

    In retail everything "old" is considered obsolote and utterly useless. We move on from raid to raid and leave each one behind forever. Theres no depth to it. The whole game centers into current raid and m+. Castle nathria can have great bosses, but that raid is too easily forgettable.
    Last edited by crusadernero; 2021-04-28 at 12:47 PM.

  12. #2012
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Reward for effort involved. Basic economics point out CEO's get paid more than mail room assistants. Inequality is part of the deal.

  13. #2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Reward for effort involved. Basic economics point out CEO's get paid more than mail room assistants. Inequality is part of the deal.
    You think the average CEO of a company puts in more effort than their frontline employees, huh. LOL okay

    Plus, your analogy doesn't actually support your position. In your analogy, both the CEO and the mail room assistant progress using the same currency. The mail room assistant just does it more slowly. If both of them want to buy a fancy suit, they probably both can. One just has to save a lot longer.

    That's actually what I'd love to see in this game: a system that rewards all playstyles, and just does it in scale. Valor could have been that system, but was instead a half-baked mess (but then that's keeping in theme with SL entirely).

  14. #2014
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    And the game director for World of Warcraft had this to say today:

    - Power level from item rating has not changed even since Wrath.
    - 1 item level is basically the equivalent of 1%.
    - If there is such a big gap between players 20 item levels apart, it is more likely a skill issue.


    So we now have not only players saying that this narrative of "I get ruined by players 10 ilvls above me and this has never ever been the case in wows history ever" is absolutely not true, but the director of the game is outright saying it as well. When will players start to look at themselves and say "well shit, maybe they are genuinely just better than me at this game" instead of "yeah well its not fair because they have better gear than me".
    And Ion is 100% right i simmed my 225 main with same gear but ilvl 203 and i lost 19,4% dps but you would require a half of brain to sim you stuff that the lazy ppls dont have (see the statments about "i cant open my own grp cuz ppl hate me and dont join" arguments) and complain on forums how they are 5x weaker than a mythic raider power wise, so yea "git gud" like Ion said.
    I.O BFA Season 3


  15. #2015
    Warchief roboscorcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Reward for effort involved. Basic economics point out CEO's get paid more than mail room assistants. Inequality is part of the deal.
    In a real-world society, you can argue that a pure capitalistic model (no catchup systems) works. I think it has many flaws, but that's beside the point. In a videogame though, if you have no safety net for people slipping through the cracks of the meta, they will quit. They do not have the real-world incentive to continue toiling away at the bottom to pay the bills. They will simply leave once the meta leaves them behind, and the community will shrink significantly. This affects the economy as the market shinks, and there are less people to group with.

  16. #2016
    Quote Originally Posted by roboscorcher View Post
    In a real-world society, you can argue that a pure capitalistic model (no catchup systems) works. I think it has many flaws, but that's beside the point. In a videogame though, if you have no safety net for people slipping through the cracks of the meta, they will quit. They do not have the real-world incentive to continue toiling away at the bottom to pay the bills. They will simply leave once the meta leaves them behind, and the community will shrink significantly. This affects the economy as the market shinks, and there are less people to group with.
    If you want any society worth its name you need to have achievers and performers to do the heavy lifting.
    They should get a bit extra for that of course but they don't have to be dicks about it and someone who works twice as much but doing easier work shouldn't have to live in poverty.

    That's why the badge system was so great. It would take longer both in /played and in calendar time but you could get the second best gear in the game. Other games do it with great success, why can't WoW?

  17. #2017
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    Raid quality gear =/= being close to mythic raiders

    Truth is, you never were, it seems like you guys are the ones that only see what you want to see, with your memory betraying you here and there, maybe every 200 ilvl piece you have should say "Castle Nathria equivalent gear" instead also high end players only complained about the "cant trade stuff" part of titanforging, since it resulted in situations where you couldnt give away another guildie BiS, and this happened way too often.
    I don't know where this "exact same gear as Mythic raiders" comes from, i never said that and seriously doubt that many people want exact the same gear als mythic raiders for worldquests. But people want an item progression outside of higher raiding/M+.
    Plus you have the problem of shitty balancing, the balancing outside of these contents is totally off because of the gear.
    See all the "Torghast is too easy/hard" threads, People with high end gear can easily solo all of it even on weaker classes, people in quest gear can't. People don't find groups for Worldbosses/Elites/Mawbosses because you can solo them with high end gear but not without. And that is bad because that is the content casuals play.

  18. #2018
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarnage86 View Post
    I mean,
    real skilled players can complete their goals even with not so good equip (very good player in normal gear can complete hc, with hc gear can complete mythic)
    while casual need that gear to pass that goals....
    Why skilled player got so mad about??? at the end of the day their are still better and skilled!
    Or after all this wow years we still make the same error and think gear should be a reward for skill instead that a pure instrument to a goal???
    What the heck a top 100-1000 player need mythic loot for, if they close raid/m+ in hc gear???
    It's like a professional driver/pilot going mad the normal driver can do the same route but with autopilot and a better car....
    Or football/soccer player going mad to sunday friendly bob about having better shooes and equipment....

    Current Thread Warnings:

    This is not a thread about Final Fantasy 14 and the "Game vs. Game" argument is derailing the thread. Please return to the actual topic of the thread.
    didnt read whole topic because its massive so similar answer to my might already be here

    your example for autopilot is completely out of sense in this situation

    its more like 1200 chess player could use stockfish or have more material during tourmanets because he WANT to achieve his goals, like playing or beating Magnus Carlsen, or cyclist using e-bike for racing with normal sportsman
    you dont get things just because u want them

    if they gave ppl free 300ilvl to complete mythic raid just for fun, they casuals would say we want ultra mythic version because mythic is easy, and dont forget to give us 400ilvl because we want to complete that goal

    current problem with game is that there is so much power difference between players and its not linear, u get higher lvl you jump all items from 200 to 207 - 213 220 226

    in old days for example in pvp you could get all off-parts for honor (current season) and then get some set pieces depend on your rating, so 1500 player was only slighty worse than 1700, and because of only little gear diff it was easier to beat those opponents and get rating for the "last" pieces
    now u have 200ilvl and fight with guy who is full 220 because he paid for boost, and the diff is bigger than whole season gear diff in old expansions
    back in the day he would just have a few more items with 10ilvl diff
    avg ilvl would be 226 (boosted) vs lets say 222 or even 220, while currently its 226(boosted guy) vs 207 xd or sth its crazy

    i guess for pve its the same, power jumps are so huge, gear just skyrockets and make things trivial if u manage to get "1" step in pve/pvp, lets say 1800rating or dunno m+10

  19. #2019
    Quote Originally Posted by ReesePieces View Post
    I don't understand why having a path to BiS gear for more casual players, that is attainable gradually over a patch cycle, gets so much resistance.

    The very skilled and organized would still get to BiS before anyone else even if the game "catered" to more casual players.

    Locking achievements, mounts, titles, transmog, etc. behind skill/difficulty thresholds feels right to me and gives the game spice imo.

    Locking player power behind the those same thresholds is what makes people feel like they are being left out.
    You are confusing casuals with people who just don't want to play the game. Casuals are understanding of the fact that there is a clear progression to gear. They understand that they may not even get close to bis. What casuals don't do is spend hours on a forum demanding gear when they don't actually play the game. Doing your WQ and having a bitch because the "elitists" are blocking you makes you a non player.

    Casuals like me spend a couple of hours on each alt every week to clear a m+ or two to get some gear. I've just gotten a sp to 60. It's taken me 2 months to get there. It's now done a 2 last week and a 4 this week. It'll be doing weekly 10s in 2 weeks. I don't expect it will be 226 by next patch. It prob won't even have full 220 by next patch. The point is I am progressing my alts casually because I am following the path. The non players need to go find a solo game. We are better off without you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Yeah you are outright lying. That isn't true AT ALL.
    Multiple people have said the opposite. The feel on the internet says the opposite. I wonder what your goal is with sticking to this false narrative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    The vault only awards you if you're a raider, M+ runner or rated PvPer. Neither of which are really options if you have no friends or a guild, like me.
    I have no friends or a guild. I get 5 pieces of loot from aprox 10 hours a week play. I have found plenty of options. For months now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  20. #2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    The vault only awards you if you're a raider, M+ runner or rated PvPer. Neither of which are really options if you have no friends or a guild, like me.
    Raider, sure if you only want mythic ilvl in the vault... normal and HC is puggable. Especially now.
    M+ vault I did solo even though I'm in a mythic raiding guild because I sometimes prefer just to play "alone"... PvP I can't comment on.

    You don't need a guild for raiding(except mythic) or m+ though, that's just a myth that are putting up barriers for yourself.

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