1. #2061
    Pit Lord smityx's Avatar
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    Damn loot queens. Getting free stuff for not working. Could be worse. The LFR'icans could be coming to steal yer raid spots and sending the loot back home.

  2. #2062
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    264 was the second best gear in the game. 213 isn't even close to being the second best.
    Players should only be rewarded for the content they do, they should never get the best items unless they do the content that rewards it, gear is supposed to be at least a little hard to get for the average player but still gear is way too easy to get. Why should a player be rewarded with stronger items just for doing casual content as that makes no sense.

    A player that only does heroic raiding will have half thier gear with 220 items so the player will be between 213-220 itlvl which is more than enough to take part in all content.

    A vendor for M+ might be nice and only allow you to buy the items if you have completed all the dungeons and only buy gear appropriate to your highest dungeon overall key level.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  3. #2063
    Quote Originally Posted by ippollite View Post
    What say you if i said we have upwards of 20 difficulty levels with whatever difficulty curve you wanted to apply (linear/exponential, a mix of the two?). Im a teacher (well, crypto teacher - esl - but with 15 years experience), and my job is literally to provide early success and raise the bar/challenge (in mythic plus terms - im gonna congratulate you for those first 5 levels from a) using any english, to understanding what you're getting at. b) making a sentence, to making a grammatically correct sentence; and c) making a complex but understandable sentence to punishing you for incredibly mild grammatical errors.)

    Linear is dumb. 'It demotivates 'the players'. Exponential is correct. It's appropriate and reward success at lower levels (i understood you). At the medium level, i can do this! (keep encouraging them!). At the highest level they dont want to be patronised and will see through it. They WANT to be tested. They want to show their ability.

    Below this, you shut them down and hold them to that standard, they gonna shut down (you can critique, but you need to be nevertheless, encouraging). At the lowest level, any critique is... FUCK YOU. FUCK THIS. I DONT EVEN KNOW WHY I BOTHERED!

    Thats the exponential curve.
    The problem is the player base gets to decide where they start on that curve. Currently with mythic+ There are a lot of players between 0-5 keys and a TON of players in 14-15 keys. The in-between is nearly dead and most of the frustration on these forums and in game is from people trying to skip to 14-15 keys without having any prior expereince.

    If there was a outside system that barred players from trying to queue to far ahead of themselves solo I think your idea could work but as it stands I think keys should work on far fewer difficulties rather then more.

  4. #2064
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Players should only be rewarded for the content they do, they should never get the best items unless they do the content that rewards it, gear is supposed to be at least a little hard to get for the average player but still gear is way too easy to get. Why should a player be rewarded with stronger items just for doing casual content as that makes no sense.

    A player that only does heroic raiding will have half thier gear with 220 items so the player will be between 213-220 itlvl which is more than enough to take part in all content.

    A vendor for M+ might be nice and only allow you to buy the items if you have completed all the dungeons and only buy gear appropriate to your highest dungeon overall key level.
    Because it worked like that in the past? Because other MMORPGs are doing it?

    Second best gear, not best

  5. #2065
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Because it worked like that in the past? Because other MMORPGs are doing it?

    Second best gear, not best
    Why should you get even the second best gear if you dont do the content that rewards it, gear should require at least some effort to aquire and not just by doing casual content like HCs, WQs and random BGs, you only need that gear when your doing the harder content so thats where you earn it, 220 ilvl is easy to get it just requires you to put in some effort.

    I believe in being rewarded by putting some effort into the game and then being rewarded, not by doing casual content and getting high level items.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  6. #2066
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Why should you get even the second best gear if you dont do the content that rewards it, gear should require at least some effort to aquire and not just by doing casual content like HCs, WQs and random BGs, you only need that gear when your doing the harder content so thats where you earn it, 220 ilvl is easy to get it just requires you to put in some effort.

    I believe in being rewarded by putting some effort into the game and then being rewarded, not by doing casual content and getting high level items.
    When the players who don't get to do that content aren't progressing, and have nothing to do but sit there and feel like a second class citizen in the game, what then? Folks are already leaving in droves. Is that healthy for the game?

  7. #2067
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    When the players who don't get to do that content aren't progressing, and have nothing to do but sit there and feel like a second class citizen in the game, what then? Folks are already leaving in droves. Is that healthy for the game?
    The Loot Puritans feel that rewarding only according to accomplishment is morally correct, and that the morally correct approach will somehow become the practically successful game design approach. That last part is the "and then a miracle occurs" step.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Sooner or later everyone sits down to a banquet of consequences." -- Robert Louis Stevenson
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  8. #2068
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    When the players who don't get to do that content aren't progressing, and have nothing to do but sit there and feel like a second class citizen in the game, what then? Folks are already leaving in droves. Is that healthy for the game?
    It wouldnt matter anyway if your fully geared or not, your still going to get destroyed in PvP if you lack the skill anyway, if your not skilled enough to do heroic raiding or high m+ then gear is irrelevant in PvP, WoW is an MMO where you need to play with others and gear should always be rewarded for doing the appropriate content, why should players get better gear just by doing the casual content WoW has.

    Even raiders at some point stop progressing in gear and progress, you either keep playing or take a break.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  9. #2069
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The Loot Puritans feel that rewarding only according to accomplishment is morally correct, and that the morally correct approach will somehow become the practically successful game design approach. That last part is the "and then a miracle occurs" step.
    Yup, well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    It wouldnt matter anyway if your fully geared or not, your still going to get destroyed in PvP if you lack the skill anyway, if your not skilled enough to do heroic raiding or high m+ then gear is irrelevant in PvP, WoW is an MMO where you need to play with others and gear should always be rewarded for doing the appropriate content, why should players get better gear just by doing the casual content WoW has.

    Even raiders at some point stop progressing in gear and progress, you either keep playing or take a break.
    If someone is unskilled, what does it matter if they're allowed to collect gear on their own? They'll just supposedly get destroyed anyway, right? What are you afraid of?

    Wouldn't it be in your best interest to see a game where there is a place for everyone? It means your content gets funded.

  10. #2070
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    Yup, well said.



    If someone is unskilled, what does it matter if they're allowed to collect gear on their own? They'll just supposedly get destroyed anyway, right? What are you afraid of?

    Wouldn't it be in your best interest to see a game where there is a place for everyone? It means your content gets funded.
    I believe in being rewarded for the amount of effort you put into the game, if your not doing more challenging content and not pushing yourself even a little then why should you get items of higher power, it should be difficult to get item upgrades and should require effort so you actually earn it, its stupid easy to get gear just playing casually.

    For a solo player WoW is a terrible game, if your not willing to make friends for whatever reason then its not the game to play. Everytime i have played casual and not raiding i stopped playing within few months.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  11. #2071
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    I believe in being rewarded for the amount of effort you put into the game, if your not doing more challenging content and not pushing yourself even a little then why should you get items of higher power, it should be difficult to get item upgrades and should require effort so you actually earn it, its stupid easy to get gear just playing casually.

    For a solo player WoW is a terrible game, if your not willing to make friends for whatever reason then its not the game to play. Everytime i have played casual and not raiding i stopped playing within few months.
    Someone working hard on their own to slowly acquire decent gear is not effort to you? Why does it matter that someone by themselves is able to acquire a decent set by themselves? Does it really affect you that much? They're paying a sub and helping to fund your content.

    Not everyone has legions of friends and not everyone is able to break into the tough group content.

  12. #2072
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    it stinks to high heaven when mythic raiders start selling runs and gear to whoever can pay gold to get it. Pretty much gets rid of the argument that mythic gear is 'meaningful' when anyone with the gold can buy it.
    Good point. Maybe all these hardcore folks don't want their fellow players to get decent gear, even if it takes longer for them, because the whole carry business would literally implode. And chances are that Blizz doesn't want that to happen either, maybe because those tokens aren't going to sell themselves, after all.
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomoprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  13. #2073
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Good point. Maybe all these hardcore folks don't want their fellow players to get decent gear, even if it takes longer for them, because the whole carry business would literally implode. And chances are that Blizz doesn't want that to happen either, maybe because those tokens aren't going to sell themselves, after all.
    Hey now the carry business was built off of good old fashion loathing of your fellow human being. Its our last sad pathetic scratching at a ground that has ground us into a shadow of ourselves. Why take that away from us?
    Last edited by Crimson Spears; 2021-05-01 at 03:55 AM.

  14. #2074
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    RP servers are definitely a lot better, actually closer to the FFXIV community in terms of friendliness and decency. The problem is that they're not completely isolated so you're still exposed to the toxicity from former PvP servers due to most things being cross realm.
    Mythic raids are the only piece of content that's server specific if I remember correctly.
    I've definitely had a good time when I rolled my 1st Ally toon in Moonguard (yes, the Goldshire inn had a lot to do with it ). Even if you clearly see less people doing organised content, the guild I got invited to ended up being quite nice, a bunch of really swell fellows I did a lot of stuff with. Suffice to say that I got AotC on my brand new Ally toon before I did with my long established Horde roster of characters, go figure.
    If the Janitor managed to pwn Azeroth:

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    "Die, wold soul of *incomprehensible mumbling* with your death my plan to *incomoprehensible mumbling* finally fullfilled and *incomprehensible mumbling*!"

  15. #2075
    Dreadlord Cuppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Why should you get even the second best gear if you dont do the content that rewards it, gear should require at least some effort to aquire and not just by doing casual content like HCs, WQs and random BGs, you only need that gear when your doing the harder content so thats where you earn it, 220 ilvl is easy to get it just requires you to put in some effort.

    I believe in being rewarded by putting some effort into the game and then being rewarded, not by doing casual content and getting high level items.
    You talk like the loot is something we have x amount, and after it’s given to players, there is nothing to gain.
    Why do you care if someone gets their mythic +29 gear from pet battles? Why? You think you are hot shit when you have 226 gear? I hate to break it down but you are not. Were you realm first, did you do MDI and came 1st, are you the sole winner of arena championship? Those things are something to be proud, and granted you can be hot shit at that point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Eater View Post
    Have you read the planned frost mage "nerfs" ?!? It's like nerfing a hangman's rope by coloring it blue.
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  16. #2076
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuppy View Post
    You talk like the loot is something we have x amount, and after it’s given to players, there is nothing to gain.
    Why do you care if someone gets their mythic +29 gear from pet battles? Why? You think you are hot shit when you have 226 gear? I hate to break it down but you are not. Were you realm first, did you do MDI and came 1st, are you the sole winner of arena championship? Those things are something to be proud, and granted you can be hot shit at that point.
    So you can only be better or proud of your achievements if you're in the top 0.00000001% of the playerbase who do things like compete in a world first race or MDI? Huh

    If someone is a casual player, why would they care about gear at all in the first place? At least to that extreme in terms of ilvl. Especially when they want rewards for little effort, then want to pretend like the content they don't do is just "no big deal" or isn't difficult, while making excuses for why they don't do said "easy content" like an idiot.
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  17. #2077
    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    If someone is a casual player, why would they care about gear at all in the first place?
    So I can feel like I'm allowed to queue for random battlegrounds and turn on warmode. Right now I feel like I would just get eaten alive.

  18. #2078
    Brewmaster Malania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    yeah, the old ones still hold up, I agree on that. But does the newer ones do? As with alot of things in retail wow, theres so much of it going around it almost loses meaning. So many mounts, so many titles. I barely notice mounts anymore, titles? pff cant recall myself looking at a title. They are a dime a dozen.
    Yeah, I liked titles when they were an accomplishment, I do notice some of the old server first ones etc when you see them around. Mostly it's just a sign that someone's been around for a while and in a group setting I can assume they won't do anything stupid. Otherwise I tend to assume everyone else started last week.

  19. #2079
    Is this really up to 105 pages now?
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  20. #2080
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    Yeah, I liked titles when they were an accomplishment, I do notice some of the old server first ones etc when you see them around. Mostly it's just a sign that someone's been around for a while and in a group setting I can assume they won't do anything stupid. Otherwise I tend to assume everyone else started last week.
    These days I expect everyone to be new and/or rather "bad" at the game, almost no matter what mount or title they have. I have a friend that sucks at the game and he has never done any serious raiding, he does lfr and standard dungeons. But, he has ALOT of gold. He buys boosts for alot of stuff. That guy got more titles and mounts than me, stuff he really has no business having. Quite funny :P he mocks me on the regular about it haha

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