1. #2181
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    And the thread kinda died out right after that. No we're not allowed to suggest changes to WoW from other games, everything needs to be 100% original.
    Yeah these fucking mods around here disgust me.

  2. #2182
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I am simply stating what happens... you not being aware of it doesn't make it fiction its the problem with "good idea fairies"
    What happens in your own anecdotes. Creating strawmans for your own stra.... nvm

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuppy View Post
    Do you think people doing pet battles in orgrimmar get ilvl 226 loot?
    And no, I am definitely not trying to be an ass or sarcastic, I just want to know your opinion on this loot debate.
    I'll be honest, pet battles are probably about the 1 thing I can't see getting "gear" rewards as it doesn't fit though there are pets that drop in raids. But even if it did get gear, sure, why not? Does it have to be top notch gear? Not really.

  3. #2183
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuppy View Post
    I feel this thread is derailed very much from the original post, and actually even the OP post is somewhat vague on details.
    Topic says what is says, but I think no one really knows after 100 pages what are we even talking about.
    Many propably read the title and figure out "This player X doing pet-battles in orgrimmar demands 226 items given to them" while this is not the case(or that's what I think anyway).
    Also there is a lot of things to clear out before it even makes point debating. What is "good loot"? Are we talking about ilvl 200, or ilvl 226? Is mythic +5 and upwards considered casual content until +15, or is +15 still casual?
    Everyone propably has their own opinion, but after 100 pages I think we have to be on the same page(no pun intended), because this is nothing but "No u" for 100 pages now.

    So: What is considered good loot, and casual content?
    There is a very vocal minority that wants 226 stuff yes, but since its a minority it can be ignored in this thread, most "casuals" in this thread want more progression past the 200 ilvl, it can be up to 207 or 213 probably, you name it, and thats fine and idk why blizz hasnt implemented it at this point.

    The issue is how fast you give out the 207-213 gear, if you give it out fast, you gonna have the same people demanding more character progression after they are 213 because they paid their sub, so now they are gonna raise the ilvl again and again and so on.

    So what is really the solution? they want character progression but when its too fast (you hit 200 ilvl very fast) they voice their opinion in this thread, so just make the progression slower so they "feel" their character is progressing at a steady rate, even if the ilvl in the end is the same, on top of increasing the ilvl a bit cause 200 is literally nothing at this point, this would be fine UNLESS this isnt what they want and they actually want the 226 stuff and used the "character progression" argument to fit their narrative

    And to answer the good loot and casual question, both are subjective, good loot is w/e loot some1 considers appropiate for them to have and be happy with, for me stuff under 226 is trash cause i cant use it, for others 213 is good and so on. The casual definition is also subjective and changed to fit each person narrative, thats why i use it in "", you even have people that think that to be a casual you cant partake in any content aside from drolling on your keyboard for 20 hrs daily doing world quests, as soon as you do a m+ you arent casual, which is just hilarious, and yes people that think like this exist xd
    Last edited by Frozenbro; 2021-05-06 at 07:31 PM.

  4. #2184
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    There is a very vocal minority that wants 226 stuff yes, but since its a minority it can be ignored in this thread, most "casuals" in this thread want more progression past the 200 ilvl, it can be up to 207 or 213 probably, you name it, and thats fine and idk why blizz hasnt implemented it at this point.

    The issue is how fast you give out the 207-213 gear, if you give it out fast, you gonna have the same people demanding more character progression after they are 213 because they paid their sub, so now they are gonna raise the ilvl again and again and so on.

    So what is really the solution? they want character progression but when its too fast (you hit 200 ilvl very fast) they voice their opinion in this thread, so just make the progression slower so they "feel" their character is progressing at a steady rate, even if the ilvl in the end is the same, on top of increasing the ilvl a bit cause 200 is literally nothing at this point, this would be fine UNLESS this isnt what they want and they actually want the 226 stuff and used the "character progression" argument to fit their narrative
    I think it's a person by person case. We are, as it's well known, in the generation of the entitled gamer. The people who want everything for nothing.

    However, there are plenty of people who are not entitled and don't mind a slow progressions as long as their is a progression path for them. Nobody at all likes to reach a short wall and have nothing to work towards until the next content patch. Yes, people who play all day may get all that awesome gear and get it fast and be in that boat but that's their fault for not taking the game in moderation.

  5. #2185
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I think it's a person by person case. We are, as it's well known, in the generation of the entitled gamer. The people who want everything for nothing.

    However, there are plenty of people who are not entitled and don't mind a slow progressions as long as their is a progression path for them. Nobody at all likes to reach a short wall and have nothing to work towards until the next content patch. Yes, people who play all day may get all that awesome gear and get it fast and be in that boat but that's their fault for not taking the game in moderation.
    You seem to be conflating skill with time played and in wow there is no game that holds that as being less true.

    You simply want to shatter the game to get a chore list.

  6. #2186
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    You seem to be conflating skill with time played and in wow there is no game that holds that as being less true.

    You simply want to shatter the game to get a chore list.
    Simply not opposed to casuals progressing. If you are, that’s your opinion.

  7. #2187
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Simply not opposed to casuals progressing. If you are, that’s your opinion.
    Sounds rather insane considering there are casuals playing six hours a week killing mythic sire and hitting glad.

    Speak plainly do you mean casuals or people who are terrible at the game?

    It is good if casuals progress breaking the game for people filtered out by silver proving grounds is just breaking the game.

  8. #2188
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    this thread really has become meaningless with the original argument lost in 110 pages of questionable comments although it has made me realize 1 thing: Nothing will ever change to make this game great for everyone again. Those that have the time and money to invest in this game are loathe to give those that don't any kind of equal footing to those that don't & the developers of World of Warcraft are completely fine with taking the money of the few than making a game for everyone to enjoy.

  9. #2189
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    this thread really has become meaningless with the original argument lost in 110 pages of questionable comments although it has made me realize 1 thing: Nothing will ever change to make this game great for everyone again. Those that have the time and money to invest in this game are loathe to give those that don't any kind of equal footing to those that don't & the developers of World of Warcraft are completely fine with taking the money of the few than making a game for everyone to enjoy.
    This game never did appeal to everyone and arguably it appealed to the least amount of people when it was at its peak. It is a mmo rpg in tbc if you couldn't pull your weight people kicked you in wrath they had to make kick protection a thing because people had standards and didn't want to carry people.

    This whole everyone gets a trophy watered down system game isn't what wow was. WoW is still popular because it has the best dungeons and raids to offer bar none. Without those it would be utterly smashed.

  10. #2190
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    This game never did appeal to everyone and arguably it appealed to the least amount of people when it was at its peak. It is a mmo rpg in tbc if you couldn't pull your weight people kicked you in wrath they had to make kick protection a thing because people had standards and didn't want to carry people.

    This whole everyone gets a trophy watered down system game isn't what wow was. WoW is still popular because it has the best dungeons and raids to offer bar none. Without those it would be utterly smashed.
    You could have at least tried to tell the truth but you had to start off with a blatant lie.

  11. #2191
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    You could have at least tried to tell the truth but you had to start off with a blatant lie.
    I can't see classic or tbc appealing to everyone.

  12. #2192
    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    Sounds rather insane considering there are casuals playing six hours a week killing mythic sire and hitting glad.

    Speak plainly do you mean casuals or people who are terrible at the game?

    It is good if casuals progress breaking the game for people filtered out by silver proving grounds is just breaking the game.
    Now you're just trying to use random word gymnastics. Why do you sound so bitter? Do you want to talk about it? I'll listen if you want to vent.

  13. #2193
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    I can't see classic or tbc appealing to everyone.
    Doesn't matter what you can see. They did which is why they became so successful.

  14. #2194
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    Doesn't matter what you can see. They did which is why they became so successful.
    So are you saying here and now that tbc without sunwell badge gear is something you would to see again progression wise?

  15. #2195
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    You could have at least tried to tell the truth but you had to start off with a blatant lie.
    How is it a lie? was the game for everyone during tbc and classic? with 1 single difficulty? xd you guys and your bubble, always so funny.

  16. #2196
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    So are you saying here and now that tbc without sunwell badge gear is something you would to see again progression wise?
    The game prior to Legion's terrible borrowed power system was good but not great. They should add back in the badge system from Wrath or maybe the Valor System from Cataclysm with the Conquest point system from Warlords to make this game great again. Mythic+ dungeons do nothing to add to the quality of the game, in fact they make those who actually work hard to clear mythic raids seem like their work is pointless. Raid quality gear for the most part should only come from raids with the minor exception to entry pieces here and there in a tier as was done prior to Legion iirc.

  17. #2197
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    The game prior to Legion's terrible borrowed power system was good but not great. They should add back in the badge system from Wrath or maybe the Valor System from Cataclysm with the Conquest point system from Warlords to make this game great again. Mythic+ dungeons do nothing to add to the quality of the game, in fact they make those who actually work hard to clear mythic raids seem like their work is pointless. Raid quality gear for the most part should only come from raids with the minor exception to entry pieces here and there in a tier as was done prior to Legion iirc.
    tier gear used to fill that slot and depending on how they do domination gear we will see that again

    however at launch WoW didnt really cater to everyone i mean it was a game where you didnt incur penalties for dying and noone could steal your gear which already placed it as more casual friendly while at the same time requiring attunements and large groups to go kill some stuff that required loads of prep back then was the hardcore aspect which it still has.

  18. #2198
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    tier gear used to fill that slot and depending on how they do domination gear we will see that again

    however at launch WoW didnt really cater to everyone i mean it was a game where you didnt incur penalties for dying and noone could steal your gear which already placed it as more casual friendly while at the same time requiring attunements and large groups to go kill some stuff that required loads of prep back then was the hardcore aspect which it still has.
    that's also a lie. you either failed together as a group or became better as a group. There was no in between. WoW now is a solo game with optional multiplayer content.

  19. #2199
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    that's also a lie. you either failed together as a group or became better as a group. There was no in between. WoW now is a solo game with optional multiplayer content.
    you seem to misunderstand
    yeah wow had the whole group content down but it was such a mess in the early days that was true about most of it
    however compared to other MMOs it was seen as more casual than anything else and it truthfully was because you had no penalty for dying beyond repair bills and the bosses were simple enough that the biggest challenge was getting everyone to do the 1 thing right at the beginning

    did it cater to the hardcore guys that liked taking trophies from the players they killed in games like neocron or rohan?? no
    did it cater to the guy that kinda ignored people and did the bare minimum to get to the end of quests?? no
    did it cater to the pvp gods that refused to do anything beyond world pvp?? definitely not after BGs were introduced

    you act as though catering to everyone means everyone in a group but you fail to realize that even back in classic you had solo players

  20. #2200
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Spears View Post
    You are trying to explain to locus that eating all the grain will kill everyone. I don't think the locus care.
    lol truth. Their lack of self insight is astonishing.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
    Classic+ Retune/New Boss Abilities >>> #nochanges crowd

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