Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[chiddie]

It's funny how so many other games have figured out how to do exactly this just fine yet WoW plods along insisting that you manually group in ever-harder content to gain any sense of progression.

And the only time they tried to add a solo content (horrible visions) guess what: it had a masked timer and was insanely difficult anyways, way more than pugging a 15.

They are so worried about ppl gearing up fast that they just can’t think about anything but gating as much stuff as they can.

[Nargrom]

I mean,
real skilled players can complete their goals even with not so good equip (very good player in normal gear can complete hc, with hc gear can complete mythic)
while casual need that gear to pass that goals....
Why skilled player got so mad about??? at the end of the day their are still better and skilled!
Or after all this wow years we still make the same error and think gear should be a reward for skill instead that a pure instrument to a goal???
What the heck a top 100-1000 player need mythic loot for, if they close raid/m+ in hc gear???
It's like a professional driver/pilot going mad the normal driver can do the same route but with autopilot and a better car....
Or football/soccer player going mad to sunday friendly bob about having better shooes and equipment....

They dont get about everything loot related but sometimes feels like a ''fuck you'' from the game.

Our tanks in my guild are on different skill spectrums. Our main tank pushes +19s and is overall amazing and the other one is a raid logger and does fuck all and in general is bare-minimum skilled for first bosses of mythic raid.

The less skilled tank gets Hakkar trinket at 226ilvl after doing a +14 depleted key by almost an hour overtime, our main tank does a minimum of 6 DOS runs per week just to loot the 210 version so he can upgrade it.

When the shit tank looted that, our main tank, lost it and in my opinion rightly so

[Kokolums]

Effort should reflect reward... otherwise what incentive is there to do harder content?

And don't give me the typical bullshit response of doing it for the 'fun' of it.

Top rewards in an MMO should go to those who are the most social and help others the most, not derpy shithead achievement mongers that yell and scream at everyone. You are playing the wrong game.

[ellieg]

Top rewards in an MMO should go to those who are the most social and help others the most, not derpy shithead achievement mongers that yell and scream at everyone. You are playing the wrong game.

Says the person not getting the best loot in the game lol. Not sure he's the one in the wrong game

[Kokolums]

Sometimes I think it would be better if we go back to the old school MUD games where ALL data was hidden from the player. Right down to the amount of damage per hit. Instead of "magic missile hits for 65 damage." You just see "magic missile hits extremely hard". Step WAY back from feeding people just in it for the numbers that hate other people.

[hyphnos]

And I can refute that and ask you why you need Mythic ilvl gear to do your WQs and LFR... Mythic has that gear for tight DPS checks for bosses.

you have refuted nothing. nobody "needs" anything in a goddamned videogame and if you want to be flippant about it i can "refute you" and ask why does mythic "need" tight dps checks for bosses. you state that like it's a law of nature and not just one design choice among many.

[AcidicSyn]

you have refuted nothing. nobody "needs" anything in a goddamned videogame and if you want to be flippant about it i can "refute you" and ask why does mythic "need" tight dps checks for bosses. you state that like it's a law of nature and not just one design choice among many.

Except fun. I need fun in my video games.

[Scrysis]

I mean,
real skilled players can complete their goals even with not so good equip (very good player in normal gear can complete hc, with hc gear can complete mythic)
while casual need that gear to pass that goals....
Why skilled player got so mad about??? at the end of the day their are still better and skilled!
Or after all this wow years we still make the same error and think gear should be a reward for skill instead that a pure instrument to a goal???
What the heck a top 100-1000 player need mythic loot for, if they close raid/m+ in hc gear???
It's like a professional driver/pilot going mad the normal driver can do the same route but with autopilot and a better car....
Or football/soccer player going mad to sunday friendly bob about having better shooes and equipment....

Let's be super honest here. You just want free and easy gear.


"Skilled players" do the fights HUNDREDS of times. And they do NEED that gear. I don't know when you started playing, but Castle Nathria is just the first raid of the expansion. First raids typically start out easier, so you get a bit of a head start. I'm not sure if you're familiar with what world-first guilds do, but they do something called "split pushes". They gear up their main characters and alts in M+ dungeons so that they can run all leather, all cloth, all plate raids. Then those alts can trade raid gear to their mains who still need those slots equipped. They buy heroic BOEs off the auction house for obscene amounts of gold. So when mythic raid opens up a week after heroic opens, their main characters are mostly heroic geared. They're doing the content with the gear appropriate for that content. They're not waving a magic wand and clearing the raid. Not only that, but boss attempts by these first-wave guilds is something casuals would have their eyeballs pop out at. Bosses with 80 attempts, 100 attempts, or 120 attempts. Go watch a world first race. It's all there. And that mythic gear that they get is used to kill the last bosses in a raid. Players who aren't in the first wave, but are very, very good, still need that mythic gear to progress. AND THEY'RE WORKING FOR IT.


A better analogy for you is that a world-class athlete who spends all of their time working out at the gym and practicing their sport gets a gold medal, and then a casual couch potato shows up at the event, watches the event from the stands, then demands a gold medal too, replete with the cash prize it brings.

Instead of typing this stuff in the forums, go practice M+, pug a raid, or do a battleground.

I'm not going to lie -- I'm hot garbage compared to the best raiders, but I don't DARE begrudge them the rewards they've EARNED. Guess what? M+ scares the shit out of me. But I want the mount and the better gear, so I've been kidnapping a good friend of mine, and we're slowly climbing the keystones. I'm not going to insist upon getting the best gear just for logging in to play. When I finally get to where I want to go, it will be ever so satisfying because I'll have worked for it. I suggest you do the same if you want the gear. And if you're not doing the content, why do you want the gear anyways?

[Glorious Leader]

- It cannot make the players along the other progression paths feel like they are now forced to do this solo path in addition to their existing ones. (The main concern I think)

Who fucking cares? This is not a concern in actual fucking sense and anybody who thinks it is and is feels like it applies to them needs fucking therapy not a fucking game designed around them..

[TheWorkingTitle]

The "real question" seems to be: What would a soloable path to 220 (or whatever is relative at the time) look like?

There should not be a soloable path to 220. Ever. As this is an MMORPG, obtaining Mythic quality raid gear should require Mythic raiding and or comparable feats in other group activities (mythic 15+ / 2k pvp)

[AcidicSyn]

Who fucking cares? This is not a concern in actual fucking sense and anybody who thinks it is and is feels like it applies to them needs fucking therapy not a fucking game designed around them..

Whoa there champ, deep, calming breaths. Its a discussion and several other people brought up that point, so I asked them to elaborate. You might consider some of that therapy yourself lol

- - - Updated - - -

There should not be a soloable path to 220. Ever. As this is an MMORPG, obtaining Mythic quality raid gear should require Mythic raiding and or comparable feats in other group activities (mythic 15+ / 2k pvp)

Thats a valid opinion to have mate, others don't appear to agree with you though. That guy said he would be behind a solo path to 220 and I asked what he thought that would look like. Certainly no lack of people who do agree with you though, my question was directed at the ones who have stated otherwise however.

[Ruthlessx]

The "edge" you speak of is fictitious.

If someone wants better gear to compete with the duelists, they can improve at the game and become better players. Contrary to popular belief PvP does not require thousands of hours of investment to get a high rating in a season.

Oh no, it's very factual. If some presses "1" and it does 1,000 damage vs somebody pressing the same ability but doing 1,200 damage there is a clear advantage putting aside any player "skill".

[TheWorkingTitle]

Thats a valid opinion to have mate, others don't appear to agree with you though. That guy said he would be behind a solo path to 220 and I asked what he thought that would look like. Certainly no lack of people who do agree with you though, my question was directed at the ones who have stated otherwise however.

Those others are irrelevant, a vocal minority. You don't need Mythic gear if you aren't doing Mythic raid-level content. Rather than whinge on forums about having the game warped to their baseless desires, they should learn to play within the confines set out before them.

[AcidicSyn]

Those others are irrelevant, a vocal minority. You don't need Mythic gear if you aren't doing Mythic raid-level content. Rather than whinge on forums about having the game warped to their baseless desires, they should learn to play within the confines set out before them.

Eh, they're not irrelevant, but that is of course your opinion, and its no less valid than theirs if a bit dismissive. I'm not any less interested in hearing their opinions because you deem them pointless though, your feelings on that guy being okay with a soloable path to 220 are noted. It's all good man you do you.

[LedZeppelin]

warroid (warrior 2.9k arena player) did a zero to 2.1k cr using LFG series. It is indeed possible to get your rating up in pvp despite having no friends

[Scarnage86]

... A better analogy for you is that a world-class athlete who spends all of their time working out at the gym and practicing their sport gets a gold medal, and then a casual couch potato shows up at the event, watches the event from the stands, then demands a gold medal too, replete with the cash prize it brings.
Instead of typing this stuff in the forums, go practice M+, pug a raid, or do a battleground.
I'm not going to lie -- I'm hot garbage compared to the best raiders, but I don't DARE begrudge them the rewards they've EARNED...

I think u misunderstood my analogy,
World class athlete are, as u say, a pure skilled persone, that is perfectly right, but not a right person to take as an exemple
Take a world championship car racer (mythic raider), where the Driver has pure skill and the car is the perfect "226 equip tool" to win the race (finish mythic raid).
When this driver win the race i bet my ass he do not wanna win a CAR, but some other things, like prize, recognition, celebrity, fame, money.....i mean the car was just the tool of the main goal, Win the race.
Now, back to average joe (casual player), he struggle to win his cousin backyard race (normal raid) because he is an unskilled driver, with a old chunky car (low equip) that barerly keep him around.
If average joe keep losing, he got bored and quit racing and the petrol and car company (blizzard) should not want that because there are a lot of average joe that pay them.
So if average joe can get a better, faster car that COMPENSATE HIS LACK OF SKILL to win is race (normal raid) he will be super happy and keep racing and use petrol for race.
At the end, back to main question, do u think Hamilton the f1 champions should care if averge joe got the same car as him?????

[Something Wicked]

Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

The answer is literally in the question.

The only "skill" is finding the energy, having the ambition, and/or finding enough people to carry you to get the loot. In straight competition, they're garbage, which is why they scream their bloody heads off at the mere mention of a level playing field.

I can't tell you how much fun I had at the end of MoP when they were basically giving away all the best PVP gear for cheap. I collected a full set of gear, and proceeded to just annihilate people left and right. And I'm in no way a "hardcore" player, let alone a particularly good one. In WoW, gear and basic competency is all that matters.

Sure, some people will say "skill" is in not standing in the fire and knowing the very basics of what other classes can do, but that's hardly rocket science. And if it was as vital as they claim it was, they wouldn't care what gear their opponents had, even if it was superior to their own. After all, Skill > All

[arkanon]

At the end, back to main question, do u think Hamilton the f1 champions should care if averge joe got the same car as him?????

This is an absolutely terrible analogy, because they dont get paid in "cars", they get paid in MONEY - so right from the outset, your entire premise is flawed. You know why you dont talk about the money? Because the question: Do you think Hamilton would be upset if someone racing gocarts in their mates backyard got paid the same money as him" - then the answer is EXTREMELY clear - hell yeah he would care - he would be going to his bosses saying "wtf is this shit? i need 10x the pay of that clown - i put in all the hard yards, all the training, all the work, the long hours practicing, i have honed my skill and improved continually, i have pushed myself and earned my spot - this kid just turns up once a month as he pleases, has zero motivation, zero input, zero training, and zero desire to improve - and you want to pay him the SAME as me?"

[Scarnage86]

This is an absolutely terrible analogy, because they dont get paid in "cars", they get paid in MONEY - so right from the outset, your entire premise is flawed. You know why you dont talk about the money? Because the question: Do you think Hamilton would be upset if someone racing gocarts in their mates backyard got paid the same money as him" - then the answer is EXTREMELY clear - hell yeah he would care - he would be going to his bosses saying "wtf is this shit? i need 10x the pay of that clown - i put in all the hard yards, all the training, all the work, the long hours practicing, i have honed my skill and improved continually, i have pushed myself and earned my spot - this kid just turns up once a month as he pleases, has zero motivation, zero input, zero training, and zero desire to improve - and you want to pay him the SAME as me?"

Finally u get to my point, because NOW hamilton (mythic raider) are being paid with CARS!!!!! instead of more prestigius price!!!!!!!

[arkanon]

Finally u get to my point, because NOW hamilton (mythic raider) are being paid with CARS!!!!! instead of more prestigius price!!!!!!!

Wrong - wrong in every possible way - you are performing some amazing mental gymnastics here, but you are wrong, very, very wrong. You are being extremely disingenuous to try and make a point. The character we play is our car - the gear we earn is our reward. Like i said, your entire premise is flawed right from the beginning, making your entire argument moot.