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  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarnage86 View Post
    I mean,
    real skilled players can complete their goals even with not so good equip (very good player in normal gear can complete hc, with hc gear can complete mythic)
    while casual need that gear to pass that goals....
    Why skilled player got so mad about??? at the end of the day their are still better and skilled!
    Or after all this wow years we still make the same error and think gear should be a reward for skill instead that a pure instrument to a goal???
    What the heck a top 100-1000 player need mythic loot for, if they close raid/m+ in hc gear???
    It's like a professional driver/pilot going mad the normal driver can do the same route but with autopilot and a better car....
    Or football/soccer player going mad to sunday friendly bob about having better shooes and equipment....
    Because the loot is the rewards. Remove the rewards, everything crumbles, as can be seen in Shadowlands rn

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    You are, but other people have no obligation to play with you.
    I'm not though, when there are no avenues of solo progression in the game.

    "Submit to the raiderio and warcraftlog machines or you no longer have a place here". That is genuinely how I feel about this game right now.

  3. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    There's no good reason to give something to someone else for less effort than the amount you put in to receive it. That's the definition of unfairness.
    Unfortunately this sentence does not apply in games where your results are mainly determined by the people you play with.

    You can put all the effort that you want but past a certain point it won’t be enough to progress if you don’t find the “right” people.

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    I'm not though, when there are no avenues of solo progression in the game.

    "Submit to the raiderio and warcraftlog machines or you no longer have a place here". That is genuinely how I feel about this game right now.
    I didnt know rated pvp had raider.io or warcraftlogs, was that introduced today? or you dont have any more arguments aside from "this game isnt for me anymore" that you are coming up with false stuff?

  5. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarnage86 View Post
    I mean,
    real skilled players can complete their goals even with not so good equip (very good player in normal gear can complete hc, with hc gear can complete mythic)
    while casual need that gear to pass that goals....
    Why skilled player got so mad about??? at the end of the day their are still better and skilled!
    Or after all this wow years we still make the same error and think gear should be a reward for skill instead that a pure instrument to a goal???
    What the heck a top 100-1000 player need mythic loot for, if they close raid/m+ in hc gear???
    It's like a professional driver/pilot going mad the normal driver can do the same route but with autopilot and a better car....
    Or football/soccer player going mad to sunday friendly bob about having better shooes and equipment....
    A "not so good player" can always get better without even getting loot. Just practicing and improving skills. For a truly skilled player, loot is the only thing that will actually improve performance.

  6. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    It gave gear faster, but you could still get all of the gear (except weapons and I think shoulders?) doing just random bgs. I forgot when that stopped but it was around in at least cata IIRC (It was there post-world revamp is why I say at least cata). You'd run bgs and get a small amount of conquest points for a win, none for a loss. You would then go to the vendors in Org up in that tower in the main area where grommash hold is and buy the gear from them.

    Pretty sure this is what he's referring to anyway.
    Yep I remember that too. At that time I did only rbgs all the time, had lot of fun and slowly geared up. Not possible anymore nowadays.

  7. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    It's really not lol. Groups won't take you if you don't have both the achievements and the gear. You also have to be what they deem "meta" at that moment.
    Did I not say that people only care in the sense of a player meeting a certain threshold to join groups? It's literally in the reply you quoted from me.

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    It's a very basic answer: Loot is a reward for doing skilled content. If someone can just get lucky it invalidates the work put in that every skilled player puts in to EARN it.
    This is so very fucking precious

    Why not just say "You've got to work and earn your fun when you set down to your leisure activity! And you can't use the money you worked for and earned to do it! That would be unfair to me!"

    All you people wanting a moral engine for a game aren't looking for fun but for a system that weeds out the people you've decided are undeserving based on a leisure activity that you already know you're competent at. There is nothing, NOTHING, anyone does in this game that is morally superior to anything anyone else does because it's all a fucking game lol. No one DESERVES loot or anything else, no matter how many imaginary pixel dragons they conquer.

    Goddamn, do you people jump up and stomp around the house blowing a fuse every time someone puts a little cash on Free Parking and lands on it?
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    Its in blizz hands to figure out a reasonable solo path for casuals that dont partake in any of the 3 progression paths, but regarding your second point and speaking for myself (and maybe a few others), if this "new" path is too good that it forces mythic raiders like me and others to partake in it for being too good, then its a problem, hence why i said that this path needs to be worse on purpose, proper mythic raiders already pvp'd like crazy during progression cause of how good pvp gearing was on top of the weekly m+ for vault, adding yet another grind thanks to a 4th progression path would be a terrible design, so all in all the 4th "casual" progression path needs to be completely useless for high end but useful for casuals, a good middle ground that doesnt mess with the already existing gear progression.
    Given you can actually get to ilvl 200 (roughly m+10 ilvl) without setting foot in M+, whatever solo progress that doesn’t make you land at about 220 will be totally useless and not considered.

  10. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Given you can actually get to ilvl 200 (roughly m+10 ilvl) without setting foot in M+, whatever solo progress that doesn’t make you land at about 220 will be totally useless and not considered.
    Pretty much yeah, im not arrogant to just throw w/e ilvl i find reasonable, thats in blizz hands to figure out, but theres no harm in introducing that 4th progression path that gives casual further progression past 200 ilvl while at the same time not making any high end content activity useless, its up to them where they draw the line, wanna keep it under heroic so heroic raiding isnt useless? cap it at 210, wanna make it under valor so valor system isnt useless? keep it under 220 and so on.

    But honestly if you ask me they wont do this anytime soon, they recently introduced valor system and current blizz will improve that system instead of introducing this path so i wouldnt keep my hopes up for this if i was a casual.

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    Did I not say that people only care in the sense of a player meeting a certain threshold to join groups? It's literally in the reply you quoted from me.
    I was agreeing with you?
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  12. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    Folks in this thread, as well as the devs themselves, are trying to push me into m+, raiding and rated PvP, where you are forced to care about that sort of thing. I do not feel like I am allowed to play the way I want to anymore.

    Story isn't enough. I can look that up on YouTube and wowpedia. Game has to be enticing and welcoming too.
    Then don't play them?

    If you are asking for endless trivial content...well i'm sorry that can't ever be a thing. It isn't physically possible to turn out content at a pace that could keep you entertained unless you played at most an hour a week. People are pushing you towards content with replayablity because those players tend to stick around more.

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    But honestly if you ask me they wont do this anytime soon, they recently introduced valor system and current blizz will improve that system instead of introducing this path so i wouldnt keep my hopes up for this if i was a casual.
    Yep, it's not changing any time soon, if ever. If you're a casual player who's looking more for fun and progression you're better served moving on to another game.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  14. #594
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    Whoa there champ, deep, calming breaths. Its a discussion and several other people brought up that point, so I asked them to elaborate. You might consider some of that therapy yourself
    What they're saying is we can't function as basic adults because we are hopeless addicts who can't help ourselves please daddy developer save us. They clearly have a fucking problem if they can't actually make this most basic of choices and frankly from a developer stand point it makes zero sense to placate them. Offering everybody else less because try hard addicts can't help themselves just means everybody else has less. Since these people will evidently do the content anyway (albeit begrudingly) why would you risk alienating everybody else by gutting rewards?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Because the loot is the rewards. Remove the rewards, everything crumbles, as can be seen in Shadowlands rn
    And WoD but here we are again same fucking shit over again. I mean these people tacitly acknowledge that incentive is key but in the very same breath want to deny others incentive. Its a fucking pyramid scam.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #595
    Honestly if casuals suddely get 226 gear with some easypeasy solo level way it would not much affect me immediatly as i get that gear too...

    But what it will do is, that it woll destroy the main progression of wow since the beginning totally in every way. So we only have leveling and that is it.

    At that point you can remove it and just drop transmog... and then the same people will complain, that mythic drops a more elaborate set (wod)
    It would just be stupid. I am 100% that wow would loose money as many people would have nothing to work towards to anymore with their character. Yes clearing a raid feels good. But that is same as leveling. You do it once and then it is just rince and repeat. Gearing on the other hand never really stops unless you are really lucky.

    I am 224 now. Not even half through Mythic. And i am allready annoyed as i won't get much upgrades anymore. And i did not even do PvP or much Mythic+.

    TLDR: Take away gearing and wow will losse a LOT of players very fast because the carrot on the stick is gone.

  16. #596
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    And WoD but here we are again same fucking shit over again. I mean these people tacitly acknowledge that incentive is key but in the very same breath want to deny others incentive. Its a fucking pyramid scam.
    How are they denied? the game throws you a gamebreaking error and closes itself whenever you try to pvp, m+ or raid? this is news to me.

  17. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Lighter View Post
    Then don't play them?

    If you are asking for endless trivial content...well i'm sorry that can't ever be a thing. It isn't physically possible to turn out content at a pace that could keep you entertained unless you played at most an hour a week. People are pushing you towards content with replayablity because those players tend to stick around more.
    I'm already not playing, and even when my computer gets fixed I don't think I want to come back. I know how "welcome" I'm going to be.

    There are plenty of options that we've already had in the game for casual solo progression content. All I wish we could have is to have those back. And that's ignoring the stuff that could be repurposed. I was excited for Torghast as a solo progression, just like i greatly enjoyed Horrific Visions in BfA. Sadly they dropped the ball there, but I'd be playing for that.

    At the moment though, as someone who isn't hyper-skilled and doesn't have many friends, I don't feel like I have a place here.

  18. #598
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    How are they denied? the game throws you a gamebreaking error and closes itself whenever you try to pvp, m+ or raid? this is news to me.
    Oh ok well now you know.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    What they're saying is we can't function as basic adults because we are hopeless addicts who can't help ourselves please daddy developer save us. They clearly have a fucking problem if they can't actually make this most basic of choices and frankly from a developer stand point it makes zero sense to placate them. Offering everybody else less because try hard addicts can't help themselves just means everybody else has less. Since these people will evidently do the content anyway (albeit begrudingly) why would you risk alienating everybody else by gutting rewards?

    - - - Updated - - -



    And WoD but here we are again same fucking shit over again. I mean these people tacitly acknowledge that incentive is key but in the very same breath want to deny others incentive. Its a fucking pyramid scam.
    I mean your demands are not sensible.. Everywhere else the loot matches up with the difficulty of the game but you want a weird exception made because...because of what?

    You want to be more powerful for no explainable reason beyond the desire for power? The real paradox is the people you are claiming are trying to keep you down usually play for cosmetic or to do the mythic race more then any power reward.

  20. #600
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Oh ok well now you know.
    Hopefully it gets fixed soon then so everyone can get 226 gear like the people that partake in pvp, m+ and raid
    Last edited by Frozenbro; 2021-03-31 at 10:10 PM.

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