Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[Frozenbro]

So someone who plays 11 hours a day (thats close to 80 hours / week) is casual? What about 55h/w? What about 40h/w?

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So you are fine with WQ rewarding mythic raid loot? or no? Not challenging you, just not 100% sure what you are saying.

edit: re-read it with my brain on and you appear to be saying thats NOT ok?

If it interferes with high end content then yeah its not okay cause it messes with gear progression as a whole in the other 3 paths, they would be adding another problem on top of pvp gearing already being a problem on high end, 233 weapons during mythic progression wasnt something you just ignore sadly, on top of this you add the "wq gearing path" where you do X wqs to get another 226 weekly for example, then for optimal gearing you pvp to 2400, you do your mythic progression, you do your +14s weekly AND now you would have to do some wqs for another 226? this is kinda too much, so yeah thats what i mean with "blizz needs to draw the line".

[Hctaz]

I agree that it shouldn't matter but it does.

If a normal driver does the same route it takes away some of the "awe" from the professional driver. At least in the eyes of the general public. I guess it's just how we work. Even if I know it's unfair to judge a artisans work by how perfect a machine made piece can be but I still judge them. I see that something isn't perfectly straight, that a tiny detail isn't cymetrical with the other side etc. If I didn't know of the machine made piece then I would just be stunned by how good their work was because it would be best piece I had ever seen.

It's not that it takes away the "awe" of it really. I can't speak for anybody else, but I remember the days of Legion loot. My biggest complaint wasn't that some guy in LFR got a piece better than me because it rolled 40 item levels higher than it should, but rather it was the fact that I HAD TO ALSO GRIND LFR because I could get just as lucky. It felt like I couldn't take a break from grinding gear because there was always the chance to randomly get an upgrade.

There's also a HUGE difference between not getting an item to drop in a raid and not getting an item to roll special bonuses power on it completely randomly. If I am fully geared up in heroic gear, I shouldn't need to continue to do Heroic, normal, and LFR for an upgrade. If I kill the boss on Mythic and it doesn't drop that item I need well.. I'm done for the week! It didn't drop, but at least I don't need to do the same boss fight 3 more times to try to get lucky >.>

[Tadkins]

You can literally do that right now.

No but they still can.

From what I understand, the conquest is only usable if you're doing rated PvP.

[Frozenbro]

It's not that it takes away the "awe" of it really. I can't speak for anybody else, but I remember the days of Legion loot. My biggest complaint wasn't that some guy in LFR got a piece better than me because it rolled 40 item levels higher than it should, but rather it was the fact that I HAD TO ALSO GRIND LFR because I could get just as lucky.

I cant relate cause i didnt really touch LFR for those upgrades, but we did some heroic split runs for the sole reason of titanforging being a thing and yeah it kinda sucked, but the biggest offender wasnt this, it was getting the bis of Timmy but you cant trade it cause it warforged/titanforged/mcforged/burgerforged to w/e ilvl, this was absolute trash design for every organized guild.

[Tradu]

From what I understand, the conquest is only usable if you're doing rated PvP.

No. You're literally crying about something without even trying it. Or reading how it works. You can buy normal raid ilevel gear with 0 rating. Better than normal raid if you're 1400(in other words if you have hands).

[Tadkins]

No. You're literally crying about something without even trying it. Or reading how it works. You can buy normal raid ilevel gear with 0 rating. Better than normal raid if you're 1400(in other words if you have hands).

I did read a bit about it, but for posterity I will do so again.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/shado...upgrading-gear

PvP Conquest Gear
There will be a weekly cap of Conquest which can be used to buy "Unranked" Gladiator gear from Zo'sorg at a starting item level of 200. You can then upgrade this gear using Honor as you increase in PvP Rank.
Unranked (from vendor); Item level 200
Combatant (1400-1599): Item Level 207
Challenger (1600-1799) :Item Level 213
Rival (1800-2099): Item Level 220
Duelist (2100+): Item level 226
Elite (2400+): Item level 233 *Weapon, Shield, Offhand ONLY

So, if I am reading that correctly, the max a non-rated player can get is 200, which is barely anything and will only get a person crushed in random battlegrounds against all the higher level geared folks.

[Yarathir]

It's usually midcores who concern themselves most with this stuff. Not skilled players.

[Edward Wu]

Unfortunately this sentence does not apply in games where your results are mainly determined by the people you play with.

You can put all the effort that you want but past a certain point it won’t be enough to progress if you don’t find the “right” people.

And what determines who you play with? Luck? Sure, a certain element of it comes into play, but its mainly through your own effort in finding the right people to group with in order to succeed. It's not simply mechanical skill from playing your class/spec but your determination and willingness to climb the ladder of WoW endgame that comes into play.

And frankly, I don't think this is something that is of any concern to most "hardcore" players because they have no reason to fear this kind of a scenario in which I originally talked about, because the designers themselves see the logic in reward scaling properly with effort.

[Elias1337]

cause it impacts their ego.. people should be able to progress their characters to max ilvl via multiple paths, sure raiding could(should) be the fastest but the casual the logs on for dailies every day and that's it should be able to hit those same levels eventually (but before the next raid patch).

You cant do that if those paths have all completly different difficulty and effort level to complete them. Do you know what will happen? Entire playerbase will flock to easyest option and play only that. Which in this case will be solo progression. So you just killed group content and invalidate everything what makes mmo mmo. And yes players will always ruin their fun for efficiency and no it isnt their fault its game developers fault.

[arkanon]

So, if I am reading that correctly, the max a non-rated player can get is 200, which is barely anything and will only get a person crushed in random battlegrounds against all the higher level geared folks.

You will only be getting "crushed" by those who have been competing in rated pvp - why SHOULDNT they be beating you?

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cause it impacts their ego.. people should be able to progress their characters to max ilvl via multiple paths, sure raiding could(should) be the fastest but the casual the logs on for dailies every day and that's it should be able to hit those same levels eventually (but before the next raid patch).

Why? Give one reason why they should be able to do that - what have they done that has earned them the same gear as a mythic raider? Who, btw, is mostly logging in daily and doing WQ as well.

[Gaidax]

You cant do that if those paths have all completly different difficulty and effort level to complete them. Do you know what will happen? Entire playerbase will flock to easyest option and play only that. Which in this case will be solo progression. So you just killed group content and invalidate everything what makes mmo mmo. And yes players will always ruin their fun for efficiency and no it isnt their fault its game developers fault.

The keyword is eventually.

For example, I totally don't mind that by end of the tier I'd see casual players approaching ilvl 220 via frikken' WQs for all I care. Because at that point I was 227+ for months anyway and next tier is coming in a month, so whatever.

If you ask me, WQs totally should be dropping ilvl 210 already and once 9.1 PTR was up for a good month, bump that to 220 for all I care - by that time I'd be logging once a week for quick mythic farm/boost, if that.

Heck, I'd say blizz should have added another 10 covenant levels with 9.0.5 release, offering various trash bonuses culminating with WQs bump to 210 ilvl and maybe non-mythic raids +5 ilvls.

[Tadkins]

And what determines who you play with? Luck? Sure, a certain element of it comes into play, but its mainly through your own effort in finding the right people to group with in order to succeed. It's not simply mechanical skill from playing your class/spec but your determination and willingness to climb the ladder of WoW endgame that comes into play.

Not everyone has the same luck in stumbling across people they can play with and click with.

Many people have found their groups. Not everyone has. Some are still looking.

You will only be getting "crushed" by those who have been competing in rated pvp - why SHOULDNT they be beating you?

They probably would, I just want a fighting chance, to be able to do damage to them and at least live long enough to learn something from the fight and possibly beat them next time.

I used to have that.

If all I have to look forward to is getting crushed, with no hope of ever climbing over that, what's the point in staying subbed?

[Tradu]

I did read a bit about it, but for posterity I will do so again.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/shado...upgrading-gear


So, if I am reading that correctly, the max a non-rated player can get is 200, which is barely anything and will only get a person crushed in random battlegrounds against all the higher level geared folks.

200 is the same as normal raid. You don't deserve to outgear normal raid from doing the PvP equivalent of random heroics, that'd be absurd.

[cuafpr]

Definitely not. If you want the best gear, do the hardest content. Effort only gets you so far, at some point you need to also show you can play the game and play with others.

outside of your opinion why? so what if takes someone a week(s) to get one 235ilvl gear so they can feel progression playing the game their way and having fun. It has zero impact on you as a mythic raider who would likely have more gear faster anyways.

[Edward Wu]

Not everyone has the same luck in stumbling across people they can play with and click with.

Many people have found their groups. Not everyone has. Some are still looking.



They probably would, I just want a fighting chance, to be able to do damage to them and at least live long enough to learn something from the fight and possibly beat them next time.

I used to have that.

If all I have to look forward to is getting crushed, with no hope of ever climbing over that, what's the point in staying subbed?

Do you mind adding some salience to your complaints? Not to be rude, but usually these types of complaints happen to be vague.

Not asking you to link your character, but a couple questions like: What's your current item level? What portion of the game is currently making you frustrated? What change do you have in mind to make it actually enjoyable?

I know most people like you aren't looking to gear up to 230 ilvl or something through world quests or something absurd, but maybe you're 210 and you're having difficulty pushing to 220 because pugging M+ and raids is admittedly a bit of a nightmare. If that's the case, an actual productive discussion can be had because I tend to agree that gearing up through M+ and raiding right now is not rewarding enough.

[Tradu]

Not everyone has the same luck in stumbling across people they can play with and click with.

Many people have found their groups. Not everyone has. Some are still looking.



They probably would, I just want a fighting chance, to be able to do damage to them and at least live long enough to learn something from the fight and possibly beat them next time.

I used to have that.

If all I have to look forward to is getting crushed, with no hope of ever climbing over that, what's the point in staying subbed?

You're the one creating that arbitrary barrier. You have the exact same opportunity to get better gear as other people.

[arkanon]

They probably would, I just want a fighting chance, to be able to do damage to them and at least live long enough to learn something from the fight and possibly beat them next time.

I used to have that.

If all I have to look forward to is getting crushed, with no hope of ever climbing over that, what's the point in staying subbed?

You have that chance - just as much now as ever. What makes you think that is no longer the case?

[Tadkins]

200 is the same as normal raid. You don't deserve to outgear normal raid from doing the PvP equivalent of random heroics, that'd be absurd.

Random heroic bosses don't suddenly transform into their +15 tyrannical key counterparts either. That is the difference between PvE and PvP.

If not accessible gear, then they should bring back templates or ilvl brackets. Otherwise, what's the point of queuing for a random BG if you're not super geared?

[Tradu]

outside of your opinion why? so what if takes someone a week(s) to get one 235ilvl gear so they can feel progression playing the game their way and having fun. It has zero impact on you as a mythic raider who would likely have more gear faster anyways.

Because then I'd have to do it too. And they can have fun without getting rewards equivalent to content that they didn't beat. If it's only 235 ilevel in world content, no problem at all, just don't make me do (even more) content that's completely trivial to me and poses no challenge other than staying awake.

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Random heroic bosses don't suddenly transform into their +15 tyrannical key counterparts either. That is the difference between PvE and PvP.

If not accessible gear, then they should bring back templates or ilvl brackets. Otherwise, what's the point of queuing for a random BG if you're not super geared?

No clue. I've never understood why people like random BGs in the first place. If you want good gear, do harder content.

[cuafpr]

Because then I'd have to do it too. And they can have fun without getting rewards equivalent to content that they didn't beat. If it's only 235 ilevel in world content, no problem at all, just don't make me do (even more) content that's completely trivial to me and poses no challenge other than staying awake.

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No clue. I've never understood why people like random BGs in the first place. If you want good gear, do harder content.

but no one is forcing you to do it, you have your raids you enjoy to do them....