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  1. #1001
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Lighter View Post
    Then the answer is to push them to unsub. To try an change the game to cater to that would just shatter it.
    How long do you think they would continue to have a job if they blatantly and expressly pushed players to unsubscribe from their game? I dont think you understand what the purpose of world of warcraft is... I mean to some degree I wish they would be more blatant because then they could be fired and people like you would be shit out of luck because whoever replaces the current crop of developers would have to do a 180...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #1002
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Same ilvl may be. 20 ilvl above (with the today metrics) I don’t think so. Today, given a roughly equivalent skill, a 220 PvE dude with zero res would beat a same class/spec 200 toon with resilience 8-9 times on 10, I have little doubts about this.
    Tbh @Tadkins was playing a decently geared rogue in BC PvP. It is entirely possible that fully PvE geared toons died during the initial stunlock. Add random stun from mace autoattacks (if talented), and GG.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Tbh @Tadkins was playing a decently geared rogue in BC PvP. It is entirely possible that fully PvE geared toons died during the initial stunlock. Add random stun from mace autoattacks (if talented), and GG.
    Yup. Orc rogue, Vengeful Gladiator armor + Merciless Gladiator maces, talented mostly in Combat with mace talents (forgot all the details, been a decade after all xD). Killed plenty of folks with that. PvE people would almost melt like butter. My gametime in BC was all basically random BGs, daily quests and ganking people in said daily quest areas.

    It wasn't the greatest time for me both in the game and in RL (lots of heavy stuff was going on there) but all things considered there were some good parts about it.

  4. #1004
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    Theres no strawman, you people legit think anyone on high end content cares about what you do or get xd you arent that important buddy, its just funny that you always use the same arguments when talking about "elitists" and the top% of the players, if you used your brain a bit you would try to get better and/or suggest blizz some solutions to your gear progression in the right places, since this one isnt, and if this wasnt clear enough, this means you can get all the 226 gear you want, you wont get anywhere with it, hence why the top% doesnt care.
    We know because it happens regularly here and in chat within game.

  5. #1005
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Shadowlands is doing a great job at pushing casual players to unsub. FFXIV has seen an increase in "WoW refugees" and that game is currently in the lull between the last patch and the next expansion. Servers are suddenly having queues where they didn't a few months ago.


    FFXIV subs have pretty much skyrocketed since SL launched
    Pretty irrelevant unless you provide infos about if there was a major content update or not.

  6. #1006
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    Pretty irrelevant unless you provide infos about if there was a major content update or not.
    I said that it was in a lull between expansions. Subs should be going down, not up.

  7. #1007
    This thread definitely went places

    Imagine if you will the world of Warcraft SL gearing as a new player with no experience outside of random grouping

    You could get over 200 ilvl doing the bare minimum currently and that’s without touching a mythic dungeon

    Once you are there you aim for higher rewards and you get told by the game itself that your choices are
    Rated pvp
    Heroic raid
    M+
    Until the next tier

    Well you are over 200ilvl so you figure according to the game that means you are suitable for a heroic raid so you go into shriekwing which you did on lfr and you keep hearing there is no big difference between lfr and normal and heroic
    Let’s say you don’t fail the rings when he turns but you do screw up a couple times to basic mechanics

    Now let’s go to a boss like destroyer
    You never had to deal with your expunge dropping balls and consume never mattered much so you die and get removed

    You then go for m+ but according to the game the main upgrades are from +7 and higher. Let’s say you get into a group that doesn’t use io and it’s something like DOS and like most new players you don’t focus the right adds or you miss interrupts or you don’t move when necessary and on bosses you screw up things like the pylons or the bomb or plagued blood and the key doesn’t make it in time and you and 4 others have a bad time. That isn’t taking into account affixes

    Is this the casual player’s fault?? No the game says that those areas are where they should be

    Are the players in the raid that kicked you at fault?? No because you should be able to handle the mechanics according to the game and there are 9-29 other people your mistakes are effecting.

    Are the players in the m+ group at fault? No because the game’s own systems say “this is enough” but they got punished because the game provides the gear equivalent to that level of play for doing something like collecting anima or playing flappy bird or doing torghast for a month.

    If blizzard wasn’t so focused on doing a step ladder system while also saying there are multiple paths that they try to make equal then there wouldn’t be an issue

    I remember ghost crawler telling a player that it wasn’t low lfr drop rates that kept his guild from killing 10 man Stone guards it was the fact they weren’t doing it right

  8. #1008
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Shadowlands is doing a great job at pushing casual players to unsub. FFXIV has seen an increase in "WoW refugees" and that game is currently in the lull between the last patch and the next expansion. Servers are suddenly having queues where they didn't a few months ago.


    FFXIV subs have pretty much skyrocketed since SL launched
    plot twist - Ion is applying for job in Square thats why hes destroying wow ^^

    but wait - werent mmorpgs supposed to be season and only loosing subs after game launch ? not get 2 mln of them in content lul ? this must be conspiracy theory against blizz .

    maybe people in Suare "dont have phones " ^^

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    Pretty irrelevant unless you provide infos about if there was a major content update or not.
    there is content lul and delayed expansion

    yet that game is gaining people

    mostly wow refugees

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker1 View Post
    Im about to become a elder scrolls online one myself soon if blizzard doesn't give a better patch for 9.2 yep you heard me i have zero interest in 9.1 one mega dungeon won't cut it i seen only one thing i like about it the rest sucks ass.
    there wont be any 9.2 . accept sad truth .

    they are most likely already fully focusing on 10.0 .

  9. #1009
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker1 View Post
    Im about to become a elder scrolls online one myself soon if blizzard doesn't give a better patch for 9.2 yep you heard me i have zero interest in 9.1 one mega dungeon won't cut it i seen only one thing i like about it the rest sucks ass.
    I'm trying ESO atm, and it's definitely a great game. What I like the most is that it's much more RPG-ish than WoW, which is ultimately just another lobby game.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I'm trying ESO atm, and it's definitely a great game. What I like the most is that it's much more RPG-ish than WoW, which is ultimately just another lobby game.
    That's its greatest strength no doubt. It feels like a proper RPG.

  11. #1011
    I just remembered, last expansion we had Horrific Visions and in its most challenging form (5 masks) a solo player could earn a piece of gear every week that was just a tiny notch below mythic raiding or +15 mythic plus keys.

    What on earth was wrong with that and why can't we have something similar with Torghast?

  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    I've always loved the story of WoW, since Warcraft 1. Played every game and I own multiple books.

    So it is a bit depressing being driven out of this game.
    Felt like I finally left an abusive relationship when I deleted my old WoW account to make a new one that I could let go more easily.

    Certainly didn't think "thank god" would first come to mind after deleting it. I mostly farm gold now to pay for my sub, clear normal raids once just to say I've been there (would do heroic but what the hell is the point lol), and then unsub. Totally skipping out on 9.1, as there is nothing there for me, or anyone really.

    The one thing that's left me the most heartbroken was the story partway through BFA. I could get over Sylvanas' moustache twirling, trees burning, azerite nonsense, but I absolutely could not get over what Danuser did to N'zoth, Azshara, Nyalotha and Nazjatar. That, for the first time, felt like an actual slap in the face. It was at that point I just turned around and said fuck it, the main thing I've stuck around for has been ruined.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I'm trying ESO atm, and it's definitely a great game. What I like the most is that it's much more RPG-ish than WoW, which is ultimately just another lobby game.
    I love ESO as well, but I play it as a single player game mostly. There isn't much for endgame, as there's like nothing for progression.

    New dungeons and raids are cool and all but there's nothing that'll get you out of your "build".

  13. #1013
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Felt like I finally left an abusive relationship when I deleted my old WoW account to make a new one that I could let go more easily.

    Certainly didn't think "thank god" would first come to mind after deleting it. I mostly farm gold now to pay for my sub, clear normal raids once just to say I've been there (would do heroic but what the hell is the point lol), and then unsub. Totally skipping out on 9.1, as there is nothing there for me, or anyone really.

    The one thing that's left me the most heartbroken was the story partway through BFA. I could get over Sylvanas' moustache twirling, trees burning, azerite nonsense, but I absolutely could not get over what Danuser did to N'zoth, Azshara, Nyalotha and Nazjatar. That, for the first time, felt like an actual slap in the face. It was at that point I just turned around and said fuck it, the main thing I've stuck around for has been ruined.
    That is a good point. It's just depressing, lol. Everything is just...blegh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    I love ESO as well, but I play it as a single player game mostly. There isn't much for endgame, as there's like nothing for progression.

    New dungeons and raids are cool and all but there's nothing that'll get you out of your "build".
    Confession time, I've never actually played Skyrim. ESO seems appealing but I should probably play that first.

    Thinking I might finally look into that once my computer situation is handled.

  14. #1014
    Because everyone want better gear as it is a primary reason to play any mmo after the story is over and done with (if you even care about the story). Why are people even asking this? When you stop gearing up you stop playing. Not that i bother with harder content myself, but any player who plays hard content will rightfully want better rewards for their efforts. This is just common sense.

  15. #1015
    Quote Originally Posted by Something Wicked View Post
    BZZZT! Sorry, wrong again.

    You're not more skilled than anyone (unless you count basic compentency of "getting out of the way of shit" and "learning the boss's mechanics" as skilled -- but hint, it's not). More willing to deal with asshole raiders? Sure, no argument. More ambition to do boring, repetetive content just because of the rewards? Sure, no argument. Running around with a ton of other players carrying each other? Again, sure, no argument.

    But that's not skill.
    Scrrrriiittttccchhh.
    You just described gaining a skill. People that can do this are skilled. People who can't do this are not skilled. This is just embarrassing. Look up David Tua Wheel of Fortune. It's that level of embarrassing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Scrrrriiittttccchhh.
    You just described gaining a skill. People that can do this are skilled. People who can't do this are not skilled.
    BZZT! Sorry, wrong again, Einstein.

    Yes, basic compentency in the game is a "skill" (notice the sarcastic quotation marks). Which I stated. Several times. But it's not a skill, as in something that elevates you above the majority of people. Anymore than learning how to use the potty or putting on a pair of pants. "DUDE, I am SO elite! Only people with my ELITE SKILL LEVEL should be allowed to use a toilet! Especially a fancy one like this, you losers don't deserve it!" That's how stupid it sounds when you people talk about gear in this thread, particularly in regards to someone's bathroom on the other side of the planet that you'll never, in a million years, ever fucking step foot in.

    You really do.

    And yes, I completely understand you don't realize it. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still what you sound like.

  17. #1017
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbro View Post
    This is pretty much the big offender, plenty of casuals are hardstuck 200 ilvl cause thats all they can get without stepping into raid, pvp or m+, then they have 0 progression, i thought valor would solve this but then valor was m+ exclusive but at the same time you can get valor with callings (?), so i dont really get why they cant upgrade wq gear or covenant armor to 210 at least xd at this point in the patch it doesnt hurt anyone and would make their entry to the other content easier.
    Considering you only need an ilvl of 175ish to enter into M+ and be relevant there is no need to make world items 210. To contribute to a normal raid you only need to be 185ish. Heck the pug scene will let you do Heroic if you're 200 ilvl. World content is only there to help you into endgame. It's not an alternative progression path. It hurts everyone if gear is 210 out in the world.

    Normals become obsolete and heroic raids don't matter that much. M+ could collapse because you only need to do 1 a week. Why put yourself through that pain when WQ gives you the same gear as a 14?

    If casuals are "stuck" at 200 then their progression is over just like a mythic raider who is 226 ilvl. Roll another toon or quit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  18. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by Something Wicked View Post
    BZZT! Sorry, wrong again, Einstein.

    Yes, basic compentency in the game is a "skill" (notice the sarcastic quotation marks). Which I stated. Several times. But it's not a skill, as in something that elevates you above the majority of people. Anymore than learning how to use the potty or putting on a pair of pants. "DUDE, I am SO elite! Only people with my ELITE SKILL LEVEL should be allowed to use a toilet! Especially a fancy one like this, you losers don't deserve it!" That's how stupid it sounds when you people talk about gear in this thread, particularly in regards to someone's bathroom on the other side of the planet that you'll never, in a million years, ever fucking step foot in.

    You really do.

    And yes, I completely understand you don't realize it. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still what you sound like.
    BRRRNFGGHHJJJHRRFJJHH! Link your character so we can see your skilled accomplishments. But im guessing you "dont feel like doing the content " so you haven't actually done anything.

    Its pretty easy to talk about how the game doesn't require skill when you can hide. I think there's definitely skilled areas of the game but I await your response.

    BRRRFFGHHHHGFFGHKKK

  19. #1019
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    This thread needs to settle down. Make your points without all the snarky asides and insulting sarcasm.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    BC and WotLK gave me the opportunity to earn resilience gear so I had the opportunity to fight back. Even late Vanilla had very good honor gear. I didn't feel as hopeless then as I do now.
    How did you get the resilience gear though? Did you hit max level and go and buy it automatically? Or did you have to run BGs and arena to get them? You don't even play WoW so you probably don't know, but to get gear to do PvP you have to do BGs and arenas. Like you do in TBC and WotLK.

    Nothing has changed. What you want is gear handed to you without having to do anything for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tadkins View Post
    I killed a bunch of folks wearing their PvE stuff running to Sunwell, but you don't have to believe me. I know my own experiences though.
    Hahahaha. I few raid nights I would rotate out of SW to give another guy a chance at loot cause I had it all and rock the whole fucking island for 3 hours. Pure raid gear. 0 resilience. I saw plenty of RGB heroes around and they just melted. Of course you ganked some randoms trying to get to the raid. They were trying to get to the raid. But anyone in SW gear who wanted to spend the time would've obliterated you. You might as well have been in dungeon blues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

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