1. #1961
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Not said it’s fine but I was just curious on how you did manage to enjoy early-mid BfA IF the difference was roughly the same of today.
    It wasn't. A lot of people make this misconception that in previous (or even earlier) expansions you had minus 10 (or any other number actually) item levels compare to the other guy, then the difference in power is roughly the same. It's not. Thanks to both item level squish and level squish.

    Quick example is, MoP (assuming similar, medium skill): did you have a chance against 545 while having 535 gear? Yes.
    Do you have a chance against 210 wearing 200 ? Unlikely.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    Legendaries were such a great system I had them all before blizz lifted softcap

  2. #1962
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    It wasn't. A lot of people make this misconception that in previous (or even earlier) expansions you had minus 10 (or any other number actually) item levels compare to the other guy, then the difference in power is roughly the same. It's not. Thanks to both item level squish and level squish.

    Quick example is, MoP (assuming similar, medium skill): did you have a chance against 545 while having 535 gear? Yes.
    Do you have a chance against 210 wearing 200 ? Unlikely.
    That's very true. They squished the item levels but didn't bother to squish the iLvl increases.

    iLvl 1000 vs 1010 for example is quite managable.
    Let's divide that 1000 by 5 so we get to 200. Then add 10 and multiply it by 5 again and we arrive at iLvl 1050. That's quite a difference.

    After the squish the iLvl brackets should've increased by 2, not 10. The power creep is worse than ever now because of it.

  3. #1963
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    That's very true. They squished the item levels but didn't bother to squish the iLvl increases.

    iLvl 1000 vs 1010 for example is quite managable.
    Let's divide that 1000 by 5 so we get to 200. Then add 10 and multiply it by 5 again and we arrive at iLvl 1050. That's quite a difference.

    After the squish the iLvl brackets should've increased by 2, not 10. The power creep is worse than ever now because of it.
    I think somewhere they said that if the ilvl increase wasn't significant enough then it didn't feel worthwhile pursuing. Which is ironic because their quite capable of recognizing players motivations but evidently have zero desire to pony up to people outside of raiding and mythic+
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #1964
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I think somewhere they said that if the ilvl increase wasn't significant enough then it didn't feel worthwhile pursuing. Which is ironic because their quite capable of recognizing players motivations but evidently have zero desire to pony up to people outside of raiding and mythic+
    I wish they could've at least gone down to increments of 5 after the squish. The amount of power 10 iLvls results in is ridiculous, it only increases the divide between the lowest geared players and the highest geared.
    For example if heroic raids was iLvl 213 then normal could be 208 and mythic 218.

  5. #1965
    if you think 10 ilvl is holding you back then you should probably improve your gameplay first

    Hardest Content should reward the best loot, its simple as that.
    There would be no incentive to ever mythic raid when you can get a better geared character in lfr.

  6. #1966
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    Do you really think that MMO-champion and this thread is representative of the player-base? Numbers don't lie. M+ is a roaring success.
    The only ones "left in the dust" by this system are the entitled players.

    Entitled does not mean bad. Entitled means a player who feels he has the right to play with/being carried by more experienced/more skilled players. Not all entitled players are bad at the game. Many are because they don't make an effort.

    The vast majority of WoW's player-base is self-aware and plays with people of similar skill/experience/mentality and has a good time. And when such players reac their plateau for skill/effort they accept it and doesn't demand to be carried further onward.
    Yeah and we all know that particpation doesnt meany anything. If you have tons of players doing mythic+, but only reason why they do it is becouse its easyer to do 5 man dungeon than organized raids to get gear than obviously you have no idea you talking about. Path of least resitance is always taken over fun path. Always.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    I wish they could've at least gone down to increments of 5 after the squish. The amount of power 10 iLvls results in is ridiculous, it only increases the divide between the lowest geared players and the highest geared.
    For example if heroic raids was iLvl 213 then normal could be 208 and mythic 218.
    Thats way too low to justify doing any of higher difficulty levels. If you consider amounth of effort you have top put in order to get such small upgrades its clearly not worth of effort. There is only 1 way out of this and thats removing difficulty levels.

  7. #1967
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias1337 View Post
    There is only 1 way out of this and thats removing difficulty levels.
    What will that solve? What would be the new difficulty? You want classic setting back where you snore the boss down?

  8. #1968
    Quote Originally Posted by SugarPunch View Post
    What will that solve? What would be the new difficulty? You want classic setting back where you snore the boss down?
    No only difficulty will be mythic difficulty and players will have to simply accept fact that you wont get to see 100% wow content just like you couldnt back in vannila, tbc and WOTLK.

  9. #1969
    Quote Originally Posted by SugarPunch View Post
    What will that solve? What would be the new difficulty? You want classic setting back where you snore the boss down?
    That is basically it yes. They want LFR to be the only difficulty and it dropping the best loot in game. Screw people that want a challenge and like to improve their skill as well as their gear.
    They feel locked out from harder content because they refuse to do the work for it and improve their gear and skill like everyone of the so-called elitist they complain about. It's been going in circles for many sites now.

    "If you want gear, do the work."
    -"I want gear, but I cba with the work."
    "Then you can't have gear."
    -"Why can't i be rewarded for login in?"
    "Because that would be unfair to everyone that works for their gear."
    -"Yes, but I want it."
    "If you want gear, do the work."
    -"I want gear...

    It's an unbelievable stance and simply not the way this game or the world works or ever worked.

    If FF gives you free loot for your sub, I encourage you to go there and enjoy, just stop trying to force your nonesense on my game. I happen to enjoy working to get gear and improving my skills in WoW, if you don't, then leave and stop making up stories about being excluded from content because you choose not to do the things that would include you.

  10. #1970
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias1337 View Post
    No only difficulty will be mythic difficulty and players will have to simply accept fact that you wont get to see 100% wow content just like you couldnt back in vannila, tbc and WOTLK.
    Why would you do that.

  11. #1971
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    If FF gives you free loot for your sub, I encourage you to go there and enjoy, just stop trying to force your nonesense on my game.
    Your game? lol.

  12. #1972
    Quote Originally Posted by SugarPunch View Post
    Why would you do that.
    Becouse its better to have fun enagaging game where most dont get to see 100% of content then having 100% participation in 100% of wow content and having players bored.

  13. #1973
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias1337 View Post
    No only difficulty will be mythic difficulty and players will have to simply accept fact that you wont get to see 100% wow content just like you couldnt back in vannila, tbc and WOTLK.
    Furthest from the truth possible. vanilla/tbc/wotlk had pretty good difficulty bar, completely opposite of what we have now. And wotlk model is something i would love to see now.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    Legendaries were such a great system I had them all before blizz lifted softcap

  14. #1974
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Furthest from the truth possible. vanilla/tbc/wotlk had pretty good difficulty bar, completely opposite of what we have now. And wotlk model is something i would love to see now.
    God please no
    Unless you mean hard modes

  15. #1975
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    This is not a thread about Final Fantasy 14 and the "Game vs. Game" argument is derailing the thread. Please return to the actual topic of the thread.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." - Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  16. #1976
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Your game? lol.
    Sigh... obviously I meant the current state of the game as myself and hundreds of thousands of people enjoy it. Thus "my kind of game" = "my" game for short.

    I thought that was clear enough, but apparently when people have no actual arguments for their cause they need to hang on single words.

    It's actually quite amusing that a thread that flows over with selfishness and entitlement of the so-called casual playerbase, it is these two words you stumble upon.

  17. #1977
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Sigh... obviously I meant the current state of the game as myself and hundreds of thousands of people enjoy it. Thus "my kind of game" = "my" game for short.

    I thought that was clear enough, but apparently when people have no actual arguments for their cause they need to hang on single words.

    It's actually quite amusing that a thread that flows over with selfishness and entitlement of the so-called casual playerbase, it is these two words you stumble upon.
    Maybe because the game had periods that were quite different but your selfish and entitled kind complained so much that we have the current state of the game. So maybe look in the mirror sometimes.

  18. #1978
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Sigh... obviously I meant the current state of the game as myself and hundreds of thousands of people enjoy it. Thus "my kind of game" = "my" game for short.

    I thought that was clear enough, but apparently when people have no actual arguments for their cause they need to hang on single words.

    It's actually quite amusing that a thread that flows over with selfishness and entitlement of the so-called casual playerbase, it is these two words you stumble upon.
    Hey! Thats mean! I like that blizzard are taking a genuine risk this expansion with their solo/nonlfg playerbase. I think its super brave digging in on esports systems. 9.1 seems to be doubling down with rated torghast and the new mythic dungeon scoring system. I think its very courageous. No sarcasm. Wow is playing to its strengths and looking to clearly demarcate itself from its competition. That i kinda personally dislike it is neither here nor there.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-04-27 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Fat fingers

  19. #1979
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Maybe because the game had periods that were quite different
    When? I have been playing since the end of WoD and at no time since has there been a system that allowed people to skip dungeons and raids and still get the best loot in the game. I can't speak for the time before, but I very much doubt it since raids and dungeons are the core of the game since forever and even if, that would be 6-7 years ago, maybe time to let it go and find a game that gives you the free loot you so desperately crave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    but your selfish and entitled kind complained so much that we have the current state of the game. So maybe look in the mirror sometimes.
    Strange, I only see threads from the other side loudly complaining that WQs and LFR do not award them with Mythic Raid gear. I personally haven't been complaining about anything in the game (apart from the story at times) because it works as intended and does so ever since Legion.
    Mythic Plus offers an endlessly playable system to do with my guild mates, Raids have been good, class balance is much better then in any other game and the QoL of the game is incredibly superior to all other MMOs I played. Of course I wouldn't mind better graphics and transmog options, but they are steadily improving.

    So, I am not the one that feels the entire system of the game needs to be changed to accomodate my wishes. It just needs to remain as it is, rewarding those that engage in playing and not those that feel entitled to BiS loot for paying their sub.

  20. #1980
    Im going to challenge you again. They arent NECESSARILY complaining about loot. Theyre complaining about a lack of progression. It just so happens that wow, specifically modern wow, ties all its fun and rewards into loot.

    The other week i literally spent days doing the hildibrand arr quest. Why? Because it made me laugh. I should have been progressing to heavensward, but i was just enjoying the dumb stupidity of it. This is one example of intrinsic rewards that wow (particularly modern wow) currently lacks (before you ask).

    Loot is what people point to only because its the most simple, obvious, and basic progression system the game offers. Outside of that though... theres really not much else except recolors and transmog. Wow (modern wow in particular) has kinda narrowed the scope of fun in game. And i know and understand fun is nebulous. But really those players are screaming 'please blizzard, for the love of azeroth, give me a reason to subscribe, log in and play your game!'

    Im really obsessed with this point for some reason (probably because i love wow and want to play wow forever, but its currently really boring and i cant ignore the treadmill when its so obviously thrust in my face - at least have the courtesy to cover it for at least a few months!). For those players, the game lacks... something. Its not loot though. Think of it like a yoyo diet

    Even if you get the gear; even if you throw 220 gear at everyone, it wouldnt matter. They still play the same way, they will still be unsatisfied with their gameplay loop. Unless they step into end game, gear doesnt remotely impact them. And bfa PROVED they wont step into LFG. Thats why we're where we are now with hard caps. They (by which i mean, me), will still play exactly the same way we (i) have since pandaria. I'll just treat it like a crypto progression system. So their choice is either iterate this on system with all its development time on a disneyland progression system (you wanna ride the flume all day? Go ahead!), or cut us off, retain the hierarchy and force the issue. This expansion is an experiment in cutting those (my) players off and seeing how we react.
    Last edited by ippollite; 2021-04-27 at 11:30 AM.

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