Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[Lolites]

i started to play in march 2005, ive played probably on all possible "levels" of play, begining as scrub, slowly rising through heroic and later myhtic riding, reached into realm top5 of my class in M+ for few seasons and now slowly fading into playing just casualy (too little time for some hard progres)

and tbh, i never cared where or how other people got the gear, i cared about MY gear but other than that i couldnt care less... probably bcs i never was guild/raid leader, and im M+ i rather check how much runs people finished

[Mardux]

Effort should reflect reward... otherwise what incentive is there to do harder content?

And don't give me the typical bullshit response of doing it for the 'fun' of it.

Who gets to determine what "effort" means? If that low-skilled player spends 2 months longer putting in the effort to kill that mythic boss, should they get better rewards than the high-skilled player that didn't need much effort to kill it?

[Marrilaife]

”Prestige” ”Challange” ” accomplishment

All these terms needs to die.

Just put the heroic gear chest in the store so we can buy gear through IRL money without having to go through boosters

Just put a medal "I completed the game" in the store too. So you can pay for the game then pay to not play it. Modern gaming design logic. Games are so unfun people want to pay to not play them. They just want to show off "look I completed this".

[Jujudrood]

It has nothing to do with the haves and have nots. No one in wow can stop someone from doing any end game activity.

No one is saying anyone is stopping anyone.
Think of it this way:
Guy A makes 200k a year, buys a 75k luxury vehicle that year.
Guy B makes 100k a year, buys the same 75k luxury vehicle, but a year later because he first had to save up.
Does Guy A get mad that Guy B has the same car? He shouldn't. ultimately Guy B having that car has no effect on Guy A.

It's the same thing for gear, which is what the OP was going on about.
If Raider A gets to ilvl 226 in the first 2 months, then Non-Raider B doesn't get there until 4+ months in, who cares?
Raider A has completed higher levels of content earlier and has enjoyed the luxury for longer than Non-Raider B.
That's the point.
In WoW, everyone seems to be all up in arms about what everyone else is getting instead of just focusing on themselves and their group and enjoying themselves.

[Bee76]

and tbh, i never cared where or how other people got the gear, i cared about MY gear

thx, that sums my point view perfectly up

[Garymorilix]

This is exactly the opposite.
I could deck you out in full 226 ilevel gear and you still wouldn't be able to do Mythic raid bosses at all, let alone Stone Legion or Sire.

iLvl becomes more and more irrelevant the lower you go because content is balanced around people being shit there.
It's that simple.
There is no reason to shower these people with loot tiers above whatever content they do.

Nobody needs 213 items to clear LFR raids. Nobody needs 226 items to do M0-M5.

Can we stop pretending that this is an actual discussion?

[Samuraijake]

yeah why should anyone get paid more for doing more work or going to college to have a higher education and skillset than me.

[LedZeppelin]

No one is saying anyone is stopping anyone.
Think of it this way:
Guy A makes 200k a year, buys a 75k luxury vehicle that year.
Guy B makes 100k a year, buys the same 75k luxury vehicle, but a year later because he first had to save up.
Does Guy A get mad that Guy B has the same car? He shouldn't. ultimately Guy B having that car has no effect on Guy A.

It's the same thing for gear, which is what the OP was going on about.
If Raider A gets to ilvl 226 in the first 2 months, then Non-Raider B doesn't get there until 4+ months in, who cares?
Raider A has completed higher levels of content earlier and has enjoyed the luxury for longer than Non-Raider B.
That's the point.
In WoW, everyone seems to be all up in arms about what everyone else is getting instead of just focusing on themselves and their group and enjoying themselves.

Wow gear isnt a free market. non raider b should have to complete the same objectives that raider a did (or a different form of end game)

[Frolk]

Giving casuals good loot without em earning it is why we have Raider.io, to sort out the shitters from the good ones with same ilvl.

The reward should ALWAYS reflect the effort u put into getting the reward.

[Garymorilix]

Giving casuals good loot without em earning it is why we have Raider.io, to sort out the shitters from the good ones with same ilvl.

The reward should ALWAYS reflect the effort u put into getting the reward.

The next thing these people complain about is exactly that.

They realize their phat lootsies are worth jack-shit the moment someone asks for their score.

[Jujudrood]

Wow gear isnt a free market. non raider b should have to complete the same objectives that raider a did (or a different form of end game)

And my point is it shouldn't matter if it is or not.
The precious gear will be outdated when the next raid tier drops anyway, so who cares if someone slow crawls up to it.
Gear is a progression metric, and the same end goal should be reachable by everyone.
It's the paths that dictate the speed at which the end goal is reached.
Mythic Raiders clearing top 50 will get there, on average, faster than those outside of the top 100.
Top 100 will get there faster, on average, than those below within the top 500, and so on.

The gear itself shouldn't be capped arbitrarily because it ends up not mattering anyway.
Granted, SL is a bad example because next tier is probably further down the road than anyone wants, but it also highlights the issue even more.
If 226s could *eventually* be earned through non-Mythic/non-high key/non-higher rating, but at a snail's pace, would that not keep the more casual base going longer?
Content draughts are a perfect reason to have that slow crawl to gear, so while the raiders unsub for a few months due to boredom, Joe WQ and crew can keep going and get that 226 ilvl at a much slower pace, thus being better overall for the game.
Joe WQ still won't have CE (though, at this pace, people will be selling that en masse as well if the next tier is 3-4 months or more away... diff topic though ugh), so you know Joe WQ isn't what you want for your team.

[NineSpine]

All raids should drop the same ilvl regardless of difficulty setting.

[Daedius]

Jesus Christ, and I thought I was a cynic.



I have quite literally never once cared about the "prestige" of pixels in this videogame, just the fun of them.

And I find the usage of the word "prestige" to be obnoxious.

I couldn't give a damn what others think, I don't want attention nor respect in reflection of... but if I'm doing hard content I expect better gear from it... it's the same in single player RPGs doing the hard (often secret) bosses would net you a good item off it.

[ellieg]

And my point is it shouldn't matter if it is or not.
The precious gear will be outdated when the next raid tier drops anyway, so who cares if someone slow crawls up to it.
Gear is a progression metric, and the same end goal should be reachable by everyone.
It's the paths that dictate the speed at which the end goal is reached.
Mythic Raiders clearing top 50 will get there, on average, faster than those outside of the top 100.
Top 100 will get there faster, on average, than those below within the top 500, and so on.

The gear itself shouldn't be capped arbitrarily because it ends up not mattering anyway.
Granted, SL is a bad example because next tier is probably further down the road than anyone wants, but it also highlights the issue even more.
If 226s could *eventually* be earned through non-Mythic/non-high key/non-higher rating, but at a snail's pace, would that not keep the more casual base going longer?
Content draughts are a perfect reason to have that slow crawl to gear, so while the raiders unsub for a few months due to boredom, Joe WQ and crew can keep going and get that 226 ilvl at a much slower pace, thus being better overall for the game.
Joe WQ still won't have CE (though, at this pace, people will be selling that en masse as well if the next tier is 3-4 months or more away... diff topic though ugh), so you know Joe WQ isn't what you want for your team.

Still no for me. Ppl should acquire loot at same rate but at dif ilvls. I think ppl should take about 80% of the patch length to get damn near full set of gear from their content. Mythic raiders and high m+ and high pvp should be working towards 226+. Heroic raiders working towards like 218. M+ers at whatever gv reward is of key their skill is capped at. Same for lower ranked pvpers.

"Casuals" can get their 226 next patch when it's the new baseline equivalent to 200now

[NineSpine]

Still no for me. Ppl should acquire loot at same rate but at dif ilvls. I think ppl should take about 80% of the patch length to get damn near full set of gear from their content. Mythic raiders and high m+ and high pvp should be working towards 226+. Heroic raiders working towards like 218. M+ers at whatever gv reward is of key their skill is capped at. Same for lower ranked pvpers.

"Casuals" can get their 226 next patch when it's the new baseline equivalent to 200now

You gave a whole lot of "should" but not a lot of explanation of "why".

[Ohmmega]

idiots play for gear
smart people play for transmog
very smart people don't play wow

[ellieg]

You gave a whole lot of "should" but not a lot of explanation of "why".

Same as every other poster in the thread with their opinions.

Dumb analogy time.
If I do 135 lb squats, I can expect to be in ok shape after a few months of doing them. If I move up to 2 plate, I'll be stronger and look better faster.. Get up to 4 plate and expect to have better stronger legs than 95% of the population. Compare that to the dude doing 135 lb squats forever. He didn't want to bother getting even stronger and progressing. He stays with ok not good not bad legs.

Ppl have every opportunity to keep progressing but just decide to stop. Whether out of laziness or their skill cap or whatever. The gear they are acquiring at their level is good for the content they decided to stop at. No one gave a good reason why they "should" get gear from harder content that they aren't doing.

[NineSpine]

Same as every other poster in the thread woth their opinions.

Dumb analogy time.
If I do 135 lb squats, I can expect to be in ok shape after a few months of doing them. If I move up to 2 plate, I'll be stronger and look better. Get up to 4 plate and expect to have better stronger legs than 95% of the population. Compare that to the dude doing 135 lb squats forever. He didn't want to bother getting even stronger and progressing. He stays with ok not good not bad legs.

Ppl have every opportunity to progressing bit jiwt decide to stop. Whether out of laziness or their skill cap or whatever. The gear they are acquiring at their level is good for the content they decided to stop at. No one gave a good reason why they "should" get gear from harder content that they aren't doing.

Nothing you said explains why this is bad from a game design standpoint.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I remember I got into a bad mythic + group, we were wiping every pull literally then at the end of the dungeon they all got loot you know and I got the damn anima along with the repair bill. I didn't leave of course in the first place because I needed the gear from that key. I was so damn pissed because they played terribly and it completely frustrated me. The funny thing is when group especially tank plays so well, that I am able to do so much more. This is actually unbelievable.

[Ausr]

Giving casuals good loot without em earning it is why we have Raider.io, to sort out the shitters from the good ones with same ilvl.

The reward should ALWAYS reflect the effort u put into getting the reward.

I'm guessing that a lot of the people arguing against this are the actual shit tier players that no guild wants to drag along except on alt night or "hey, you're perfect for mythic +2 and we need a warm body."

Doing harder content should reward you with better gear/toys/cosmetic items for putting forth the effort. If you can't do the harder content, then you obvious shouldn't be rewarded any of those items and have to stick with the difficulty of the game you can handle.

I don't reward my worst skilled workers the same pay as the best skilled workers and tell the best skilled workers that regardless of pay, they should work just as hard with no carrot on the stick for them. They'll just quit and go to another job.