Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Yeah I don't really believe you. Also, I'd love to know where you were getting this 203 gear because the only time I got high ilvl loot was from the timewalking weekly quests outside of raiding.

im not bad cuz youre bad bro i know its hard to belive but thats what all top 50 even 100 guilds did

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Some players just don't become better no matter how hard they try...

dont act like WoW is some Moba or FPS if you have 2 hards and no eye conditions you can clear mythic with a random wr 1000 guild its 100% lazyness

[TheRevenantHero]

im not bad cuz youre bad bro i know its hard to belive but thats what all top 50 even 100 guilds did

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dont act like WoW is some Moba or FPS if you have 2 hards and no eye conditions you can clear mythic with a random wr 1000 guild its 100% lazyness

The only time you will get higher ilvl is from the vault, normal raid and up, and in mythic+ dungeons. It has absolutely nothing to do with "being bad". The fact is that group drop rates are exceptionally low so it takes a long time to gear up. Also, no. You cannot easily clear mythic like that. If you're saying that in earnest then you have definitely never stepped foot in mythics.

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Not if said better gear was awarded for much easier content - you are completely ignoring this core aspect. Not a single person i know actually cares what gear someone else is getting SO LONG AS SAID GEAR MATCHES THE CHALLENGE OF THE CONTENT THAT REWARDED IT.

Let me slow it down a bit. I have no issue at all with pvp rewarding the same ilvl gear as mythic raids - no issue AT ALL. But if mythic raids are at such a high difficulty that only 5% of the playerbase are willing and able to beat it, then the same or similar needs to be said regarding pvp. So high rated pvp players, the top 5-8% (for example) being rewarded with gear of the same ilvl as mythic raids? Yup, totally cool.

The issue arises when spamming random bgs and "farming" honor (afking 50% of the time watching tv) with no expectation or demands on performance, is awarding the same gear as a mythic raid.

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For what? Not understanding the concept at all and contradicting themself?

Ok but it boils down to one simple fact that Keristrasza brought up. Getting mad about what OTHER people are getting in game is toxic and it's why the pve community gets worse and worse with every expansion. Mythic raids always have an exclusive mount and a version of the raid armor with extra art effects. Casuals can never get those rewards without paying for a carry or waiting until the next expansions comes out. But even then, the mount will become a 1% drop rate.

So there really is absolutely no reason to get upset. It doesn't impact your play time because those people will likely never be on a mythic raid team. Why does someone ELSE'S enjoyment of the game hurt/bother you?

[Feral Druid ist Op]

The only time you will get higher ilvl is from the vault, normal raid and up, and in mythic+ dungeons. It has absolutely nothing to do with "being bad". The fact is that group drop rates are exceptionally low so it takes a long time to gear up. Also, no. You cannot easily clear mythic like that. If you're saying that in earnest then you have definitely never stepped foot in mythics.

i won't respond to you troll anymore waste of O2 but for the colsure im a former TG Gaming Player (peaked in MOP WR9) and i play in Oblivion (EU Blackrock) atm you can look up if ihave stepped into mythic raiding

[Frozenbro]

The only time you will get higher ilvl is from the vault, normal raid and up, and in mythic+ dungeons. It has absolutely nothing to do with "being bad". The fact is that group drop rates are exceptionally low so it takes a long time to gear up. Also, no. You cannot easily clear mythic like that. If you're saying that in earnest then you have definitely never stepped foot in mythics.

Check the ilvl that any HoF guild had when they got their AOTC week 1 and the ilvl they had when they cleared the first 3-4 Mythic bosses before spouting more delusional stuff.

[SirBeef]

So the players that actually complete the content giving 0 fucks about anyone else since they just do their thing in their guild, have personal interviews with blizz so blizz keeps designing the game around them? people like u are actually so delusional xd you try to make it seem like the top 5% cares about you, sorry to burst your bubble but they dont, blame blizz for not implementing what you actually want, that is when you actually realize what you really want.

Holy strawman Batman!

[Frozenbro]

Holy strawman Batman!

Theres no strawman, you people legit think anyone on high end content cares about what you do or get xd you arent that important buddy, its just funny that you always use the same arguments when talking about "elitists" and the top% of the players, if you used your brain a bit you would try to get better and/or suggest blizz some solutions to your gear progression in the right places, since this one isnt, and if this wasnt clear enough, this means you can get all the 226 gear you want, you wont get anywhere with it, hence why the top% doesnt care.

[Gaidax]

I think that people who cry most about what others get are the likes of HC raider level who feel threatened by the alternative/easier ways to get better gear. Mythic raiders? Who cares, we get best shit as is 3 times faster anyway.

[Appelgren]

That's why pvp in a MMO is rubbish... Pure pvp is skill vs skill. Remove equip factor and see who is the better player XD
LOL even blizzard do that in arena championship!!!

At the highest ratings everyone have the best gear so it is in fact skill vs skill

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I've fully admitted in this thread that I am the direct opposite of that. I don't really see myself as a casual player, as when I did have my computer I would play up to 12 hours a day. I'm just not great at the game. I struggle with a lot of the rated competitive and organized group content, the finer aspects of my class as well as all the stuff about scoring and logs and all that. Things like M+ make me extremely nervous. I also not great with the social aspect of things. I don't have many friends at all and I genuinely struggle at making and maintaining relationships with people. For the most part I've always been happy just keeping to myself and trying to stay out of everyone's way.

I used to be able to have fun and progress in my own way despite that, at least until Shadowlands.

What exactly is stopping you doing exactly that in Shadowlands? If you don't like organised group content, then there's always been a limit to what you can accomplish. Disorganised group content is still around in the form of LFR and Heroic dungeons, and these together with world quests make up a decent level of progression. If you want to push yourself, then M+ exists at whatever level you feel you can manage. I've comfortably pugged M+ up to +5s on a 196 character with very little RIO score.

[arkanon]

Ok but it boils down to one simple fact that Keristrasza brought up. Getting mad about what OTHER people are getting in game is toxic and it's why the pve community gets worse and worse with every expansion. Mythic raids always have an exclusive mount and a version of the raid armor with extra art effects. Casuals can never get those rewards without paying for a carry or waiting until the next expansions comes out. But even then, the mount will become a 1% drop rate.

So there really is absolutely no reason to get upset. It doesn't impact your play time because those people will likely never be on a mythic raid team. Why does someone ELSE'S enjoyment of the game hurt/bother you?

Hey me and you tend to agree on a fair bit of shit, but this one we just like ships in the night. I no longer raid mythic - im one of those "boo-hoo my kids and business are more important than pixels bla bla" wankers. But i still firmly believe the best gear should be reserved for the highest performing players in that sector. Best pvper? Best gear. highest M+ keys? Best Gear. Highest raid difficulty? Best gear.

I have advocated for YEARS for solo players to have their own path, with their own rewards - and i couldnt give a shit on the ilvl, so long as it is lower than said top tier difficulties. What i have suggested, over and over again, is gear sets that match the content they were obtained in. For WQ, i am absolutely open to suggestions due to heavily limited involvement, but i picture a stronger version of the covenant set bonuses - Reduced hearth, a second hearth, much faster mount speed, increased damage against certain types of mobs, increased regen, both mana and hp etc etc etc - stuff that in my humble opinion will make them the gods of what THEY enjoy and partake in the most.

[ippollite]

What exactly is stopping you doing exactly that in Shadowlands? If you don't like organised group content, then there's always been a limit to what you can accomplish. Disorganised group content is still around in the form of LFR and Heroic dungeons, and these together with world quests make up a decent level of progression. If you want to push yourself, then M+ exists at whatever level you feel you can manage. I've comfortably pugged M+ up to +5s on a 196 character with very little RIO score.

Dude... just read his post again, only a little slower. They literally told you what's stopping them. And genuinely, they arent alone in this. I see so many posts here and on GD saying much the same thing: They want to play this game as an MMO but have literally no idea how to make that happen. Perhaps we could look at how the game incentivizes PUGging over guilds and identify there are core issues in bringing players together in game (LONGSTANDING core issues - to be fair to shadowlands; you could easily go back to wrath to start identifying them; the guild finder in cata didnt come out of nowhere after all).

Their issues: 1. They arent mechanically gifted at the game. 2. They are nervous about messing up. (this is EXPECTED in guild runs, this is NOT expected in PUG runs, just for an example). 3. The anxiety of messing up makes them less inclined to put themselves forward for this content. 4. So they dont. And likely havent for several expansions. 5. Making it far more psychologically difficult to make that leap.

Its such a weird thing. An absolutely brand new player with no preconceptions has more chance progressing in the game right now than an established veteran of the game who spent an expansion or two playing it like a single player game.

Now i dont want you to get me twisted here. Im absolutely fine with blizzard using the stick over the carrot this time out. Players do need a bit of a nudge into the core end game experience (since the benefits are absolutely enormous - more gear paths, more access to deeper and difficult content raising individual player skill ceilings, and maybe most of all, access to organised raiding/pvp through guilds - guilds being, as i said, more tolerant of mistakes than the pug world).

The issue here though is that for the mainstream playerbase, from tier 5 casuals to perhaps your tier 3 average player, this is a crypto solo player game. And as such, has an incredibly high wall to overcome. And if you happen to be someone who gets in their own head (and forgets that YOU WILL LITERALLY NEVER SEE THESE PLAYERS EVER AGAIN IN GAME), it can be pretty terrifying playing this game as an mmo. It really SHOULDNT be terrifying playing this game as an mmo, so there's a clear issue at the heart of this game that needs to be addressed.

[Ragedaug]

But then Im not arguing with you. If you are doing mythic raiding then you will have the best gear in the game...and you deserve it because you are doing the hardest content in the game.

Not that I'm arguing with your point, but it reminded me of an ironic argument I've heard. I often hear folks ask why casuals need raiding gear if they are just questing. Seems to be the same argument as to why a raider would need gear from an end boss that they just killed. If you already killed the boss without the gear he drops, then you don't need the gear the boss drops to defeat that boss.

Of course the answer is that we aren't just progressing through a raid, we are progressing our characters. The quester is still looking to progress their character and get stronger the same way a raider is...regardless of the level of "need" for the gear.

[Electric Lighter]

Not that I'm arguing with your point, but it reminded me of an ironic argument I've heard. I often hear folks ask why casuals need raiding gear if they are just questing. Seems to be the same argument as to why a raider would need gear from an end boss that they just killed. If you already killed the boss without the gear he drops, then you don't need the gear the boss drops to defeat that boss.

Of course the answer is that we aren't just progressing through a raid, we are progressing our characters. The quester is still looking to progress their character and get stronger the same way a raider is...regardless of the level of "need" for the gear.

No its usually because the next boss has harder checks then the previous one. Its why more people kill shriekwing then sire.

A lot of people who kick and scream for better gear can't really cope that its just envy. They want something that they can't obtain and it irks them.

[dafuq]

my guild clears 2x myhtic in 3hrs x2 a week thats less time spend in a week than 90% of you "Casuals" and we dont even do M+ cuz we all in full bis gear (unless we push some keys on a push week)

thats what im saying. just because you play less then it doesnt mean youre automaticly worse than those who put more time into the game

[darklogrus]

thats what im saying. just because you play less then it doesnt mean youre automaticly worse than those who put more time into the game

Eeh, but he left out the part where it took him hundreds of hours of raiding to even get to that point..

[potis]

A lot of people who kick and scream for better gear can't really cope that its just envy. They want something that they can't obtain and it irks them.

I dont think its envy, its more like, complete lack of knowledge of how things work in the specific genre WoW is in, because they havent played similar games, cause its a thing of the previous generation.

Its a long discussion that basically boils down to, the younger generation is more accustomated to faster more reward game structures even in their single player games, so when a game tells them "Lol nop, you need to do harder stuff to get the gear", while they are used to passive linear scaling, most RPGs have the last years, it scares them, makes them whine, makes them demand stuff.

They cant comprehend the concept of "Have people to play with and finish the content".

I noticed this in BFA, the comparison of "Skyrim" came up in every WoW related discussion 23432423 times, because thats their "original" RPG, and how Legion, had solo content (Where exactly? :S i am still searching for that solo content).

On the usual LFR hero that has been playing for 10 years and still hasnt gotten anywhere while always blaming something else, its just envy ye, but i dont think many of those are around, some eventually progress, most unsub at content drought.

[Ragedaug]

No its usually because the next boss has harder checks then the previous one. Its why more people kill shriekwing then sire.

A lot of people who kick and scream for better gear can't really cope that its just envy. They want something that they can't obtain and it irks them.

There's no next boss after the end boss, it's kinda implicit in the modifier "end" ...which is why I said the "end boss"...sooooo? /shrug

If you want to say they are preparing for the next tier, that's fine, but the first boss of the next tier is never as difficult as the end boss of the previous tier. And even if you still wanted to persist in that argument, there's literally no boss after the final boss of the expansion, so you are literally getting gear from that boss for the purpose of farming and questing, which goes back to the point of why does the casual quest player need raid gear? Ask the mythic raider who gets the most powerful raid gear of the expansion from the final raid boss of the expansion. The reason will be the same.

[Electric Lighter]

I dont think its envy, its more like, complete lack of knowledge of how things work in the specific genre WoW is in, because they havent played similar games, cause its a thing of the previous generation.

Its a long discussion that basically boils down to, the younger generation is more accustomated to faster more reward game structures even in their single player games, so when a game tells them "Lol nop, you need to do harder stuff to get the gear", while they are used to passive linear scaling, most RPGs have the last years, it scares them, makes them whine, makes them demand stuff.

They cant comprehend the concept of "Have people to play with and finish the content".

I noticed this in BFA, the comparison of "Skyrim" came up in every WoW related discussion 23432423 times, because thats their "original" RPG, and how Legion, had solo content (Where exactly? :S i am still searching for that solo content).

On the usual LFR hero that has been playing for 10 years and still hasnt gotten anywhere while always blaming something else, its just envy ye, but i dont think many of those are around, some eventually progress, most unsub at content drought.

I suppose it could be this though I admit I am skeptical how many new players wow honestly brings in at this point. Out of any other massively multiplayer game it has a ton of barriers for new players. It costs money to buy, it has a subscription and it has a cash shop like a free to play game.

It could be a new generation but I suspect its just the usual suspects.

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There's no next boss after the end boss, it's kinda implicit in the modifier "end" ...which is why I said the "end boss"...sooooo? /shrug

If you want to say they are preparing for the next tier, that's fine, but the first boss of the next tier is never as difficult as the end boss of the previous tier. And even if you still wanted to persist in that argument, there's literally no boss after the final boss of the expansion, so you are literally getting gear from that boss for the purpose of farming and questing, which goes back to the point of why does the casual quest player need raid gear? Ask the mythic raider who gets the most powerful raid gear of the expansion from the final raid boss of the expansion. The reason will be the same.

So... your entire argument boils down to... that last boss drops loot instead of just vanity items? To be frank most raiders wouldn't care if the last boss just drops vanity items all it would is accelerate sales to get gold for the next tier.

There just seems to be this massive disconnect where people somehow think they should break the entire progression system of a game to pander to people who genuinely dislike the genre. There isn't a game I know of that works the way people want wow to turn into. I've seen people try to compare it to moba, dungeon crawlers and over head rpgs only to stutter when its pointed out that those games work on a similar progression system.

[qwerty123456]

It's not skilled players that get mad its players that need to use their higher gearscore as a crutch for their low skill.

[Depakote]

I agree that it shouldn't matter but it does.

If a normal driver does the same route it takes away some of the "awe" from the professional driver. At least in the eyes of the general public. I guess it's just how we work. Even if I know it's unfair to judge a artisans work by how perfect a machine made piece can be but I still judge them. I see that something isn't perfectly straight, that a tiny detail isn't cymetrical with the other side etc. If I didn't know of the machine made piece then I would just be stunned by how good their work was because it would be best piece I had ever seen.

That doesn't make any sense.