Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[Tadkins]

OK, I have to admit I forgot about the small amount of conquest from random BG wins. I just always thought, "Wow, that's a really slow way to get things."

The other things, like Horrific Visions - more options are good. Especially if they were truly challenging solo options. And the gap between a 200 player and a 226 player in SL is quite large from what I've heard - maybe that should be fixed.

But I don't think you'll ever be able to get rid of the gear gap, or the time period where you are "paying your dues" to get geared. I remember grinding S2 Merc Glad gear on a newly 70 Fury(lol) Warrior in BC, and it was slow and painful, but at least it helped me learn how to play better.

But you don't seem to mind slow, so I don't see why, say, a solo player could do Twisting Corridors and another challenging solo piece of content and get to, say, 213 ilvl. That would give you a better chance against group players. And the group players could still have some bonus for the innate difficulty spike in managing more than just yourself. Herding 19 cats is hard for Mythic raiding.

I would certainly be more amenable to WoW if I could do difficult solo play content. Part of the problem is, though, if solo play content was as valid a gearing path as everything else, then things would need to be balanced around the solo play content. And they aren't even balanced from what I've heard, just trying to juggle M+, raiding and PVP. Classes like Mages would need to be buffed up in their solo capability to make things fairer.

Yup, I was always fine with earning things a little slower than the rated/organized folks. I just played that content because it guaranteed me entry at any time of the day without the reliance on having friends. I was always geared below a mythic raider, but not to the point where it felt hopeless.

If we had the conquest system before, as well as a Torghast gearing path that was similar to Horrific Visions that allowed a solo player to earn good gear through challenges, I would never have been in this thread. xD I'd also re-sub to to the game without a second thought once my computer is fixed.

[Gref]

I will say it again,
1 night raiding, 1 time +15, 1 run of torgast not 2, AOTC and managed to be arms warrior heroic DPS Oceania 1st with 222 ilvl. (getting 7 power infusions was supposed to be a joke but it is still there and embarrassing)
I am 34 and got full time job and a wife that is a curse upon me playing any game. I do not play wow more than 5-6 hours a week. Impossible.

If you are still behind ilvl at this point and want everything to you handed over "YOU SUCK". That is it.

I want higher ilvl because I want to be able to clear it faster and parse higher. I love the competition we have i the guild. It makes me feel good about myself seeing myself in the rankings. It is just a game but I just love being competitive. Same as the soccer I play every Sunday.
I could do it, so can you. Stop whining and put some effort into it.

Priotize what needs to be done. I would like to do pet battles. Try non-meta stuff. Do transmog runs. Farm gold and play auction. Play another class instead of the same warrior for the 16 years. I want a warlock so bad. or a rog geared to 222. But nope. I do not have time or the money to buy BOE from the auction.

Get your shit together and play effectively.

[Something Wicked]

I will say it again,
1 night raiding, 1 time +15, 1 run of torgast not 2, AOTC and managed to be arms warrior heroic DPS Oceania 1st with 222 ilvl. (getting 7 power infusions was supposed to be a joke but it is still there and embarrassing)
I am 34 and got full time job and a wife that is a curse upon me playing any game. I do not play wow more than 5-6 hours a week. Impossible.

If you are still behind ilvl at this point and want everything to you handed over "YOU SUCK". That is it.

I want higher ilvl because I want to be able to clear it faster and parse higher. I love the competition we have i the guild. It makes me feel good about myself seeing myself in the rankings. It is just a game but I just love being competitive. Same as the soccer I play every Sunday.
I could do it, so can you. Stop whining and put some effort into it.

Priotize what needs to be done. I would like to do pet battles. Try non-meta stuff. Do transmog runs. Farm gold and play auction. Play another class instead of the same warrior for the 16 years. I want a warlock so bad. or a rog geared to 222. But nope. I do not have time or the money to buy BOE from the auction.

Get your shit together and play effectively.

The point YOU people keep missing is MOST people don't want to do many of those things. It's not fun for them. They don't like having to deal with a bunch of elitist douchenozzles who whine and cry over every little thing ("whaa, I wanted that, why'd you give it to him?!" "whaa, you made a tiny mistake or your DPS isn't where I think it should be, this wipe is all your fault you fucking loser!!!!" "Whaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!") being the main reason, but there's plenty of other perfectly reasonable and sensible reasons for why they don't enjoy it.

You like it. Good on you. Absolutely no one gives a fuck. Just like you don't give a fuck what I like or anyone else likes. But you shouldn't get all the best gear in the game just because it's something oyu like (or worse, endure just because you want the gear; that's NOT a good thing).

The fact that you said "YOU SUCK" in all caps just because someone doesn't want to do what you do, and which you clearly hint is something you see as a chore more than a fun and entertaining aspect of the game, really says it all.

[Tadkins]

I will say it again,
1 night raiding, 1 time +15, 1 run of torgast not 2, AOTC and managed to be arms warrior heroic DPS Oceania 1st with 222 ilvl. (getting 7 power infusions was supposed to be a joke but it is still there and embarrassing)
I am 34 and got full time job and a wife that is a curse upon me playing any game. I do not play wow more than 5-6 hours a week. Impossible.

If you are still behind ilvl at this point and want everything to you handed over "YOU SUCK". That is it.

I want higher ilvl because I want to be able to clear it faster and parse higher. I love the competition we have i the guild. It makes me feel good about myself seeing myself in the rankings. It is just a game but I just love being competitive. Same as the soccer I play every Sunday.
I could do it, so can you. Stop whining and put some effort into it.

Priotize what needs to be done. I would like to do pet battles. Try non-meta stuff. Do transmog runs. Farm gold and play auction. Play another class instead of the same warrior for the 16 years. I want a warlock so bad. or a rog geared to 222. But nope. I do not have time or the money to buy BOE from the auction.

Get your shit together and play effectively.

Not everyone has friends that will take them to stuff. Not everyone is able to handle the pressure and the judgment of other people while they try to learn and inevitably screw up doing so. Why can't there be solo options too?

[Sialina]

Not everyone has friends that will take them to stuff. Not everyone is able to handle the pressure and the judgment of other people while they try to learn and inevitably screw up doing so. Why can't there be solo options too?

The really good solo options always come with the .3 patch, as blizzard can afford to make gearing somewhat easier. Once the content that dropped with the .3 patch has been out for a few months, 4-5 or so, restrictions start to ease up and the last 5-6 months of the expansion you will usually be able to get quite good gear, like the visions in 8.3

A couple of things of old I myself think could be brought back is the 2 mythic valor pieces, you earn currency every week and after 2 or 3 months you get 2 set slots of mythic gear.

[razorpax]

Not everyone has friends that will take them to stuff. Not everyone is able to handle the pressure and the judgment of other people while they try to learn and inevitably screw up doing so. Why can't there be solo options too?

Because of the second M in MMO
Why can’t I cook food in halo

[Tadkins]

The really good solo options always come with the .3 patch, as blizzard can afford to make gearing somewhat easier. Once the content that dropped with the .3 patch has been out for a few months, 4-5 or so, restrictions start to ease up and the last 5-6 months of the expansion you will usually be able to get quite good gear, like the visions in 8.3

A couple of things of old I myself think could be brought back is the 2 mythic valor pieces, you earn currency every week and after 2 or 3 months you get 2 set slots of mythic gear.

Should just be something available all expansion long. Blizz is essentially saying "you're only welcome in the game a few months out of the cycle". I'm going to have been beyond losing interest by the time 9.3 hits.

Because of the second M in MMO

MMORPG just means that you're playing in an online world filled with other players. There's no rule that says you need to be forced to play with everyone.

People convinently forget the RPG part too. Why aren't we adhering to that as well?

[cszsolt3]

Should just be something available all expansion long. Blizz is essentially saying "you're only welcome in the game a few months out of the cycle". I'm going to have been beyond losing interest by the time 9.3 hits.



MMORPG just means that you're playing in an online world filled with other players. There's no rule that says you need to be forced to play with everyone.

People convinently forget the RPG part too. Why aren't we adhering to that as well?

There is no multiplayer if there is no interaction between players. People who want to play a game like WoW solo should look at other games whivh are actually tailored for that gameplay.

[Gref]

Mind you I live in Japan. Time difference is the biggest hurdle after my wife. To be able to find those "friends" (and they do not take me or carry me, everybody does their job) I have spent over a year. Looking for guild after guild. Searching hopelessly. I put my effort even before playing the game. Looked everywhere on the web. Pages after pages of guild listings.

you say pressure and the judgment of others. Then the game is not for you. It is MMO-RPG . Human interaction is inevitable. The game is designed around that. If you want to play solo, then it is not an mmo. Group content in this game is harder then any other content and rightly so. Organizing a group of people even for normal is a difficult task. Each is another personality. Of course dealing with that would reward something better in turn.

WHy is this even a discussion? any game with harder options will give you better rewards. That is it. It is only basic logic.
What is the most difficult level of solo play right now? torgast tier 8 run with that 18 floors? If we remove all that bullshit power from torgast, make it have rewards going up to 226, I am %100 sure people keep whining about it and eventually they will get nerfed. JUST LIKE horrific visions got nerfed.

There is no end to your demands. 1- It is MMO. 2-Higher Level activities = higher rewards.
It is clear this game is not for you.

You can play dark souls if you want? difficult and solo.

[Tadkins]

There is no multiplayer if there is no interaction between players. People who want to play a game like WoW solo should look at other games whivh are actually tailored for that gameplay.

You can still interact with players without being forced to group with them. I don't talk to anyone in the game but I'm still buying their stuff on the AH, they're still buying mine, we're still seeing each other out in the world.

I killed that mob for you a minute ago so you can hit that mining node uninterrupted. We have thus affected each other's time in the game world even if indirectly.

If there's going to be nothing for the solo player, then yeah we will go find other games. Many are doing just that. I ordered Fire Emblem: Three Houses a few hours ago and I am going to go pick it up tomorrow. How many subs have been lost in Shadowlands?

It's in Blizzard's best interest to provide content for everyone.

Again, people chastise solo players here all the time but no one bothers to ask why they are solo players. Maybe if the community was better to each other, we wouldn't have such a need for solo content.

[LilSaihah]

The loot cycle's designed to give you cool new toys for doing hard content. If you've been doing the hard content and then Blizzard releases the same new cool toy for easy content it cheapens the loot.

[Freedom]

I don't understand. I can certainly understand not wanting to go to new territory of solo play being equal to group play, such as WQs and Torghast giving 226 items, or even really hard solo options giving 226 items, but what exactly is so horrible about going back to older models that still kept a gap between what can be achieved with solo play and group play, while still giving solo players options to progress?

Does it really matter if Tadkins jumps through hoops in difficult single player content or waits for a long time to accrue Conquest through random BG wins and gets 213 ilvl 2 weeks before the next patch when most hardcore or group players had that ilvl months ago?

[Paperfox]

I think this whole "Skilled vs Casual" player is dividing the playerbase to the detriment of us all.

If you want to make money selling games, then you:
1. create a problem that you can sell the solution too, then
2. once that problem has been solved by a majority of the players, you reset that problem so you can create it again.

How did all that 207+ gear end up in the hands of all the "skilled" players? Did they use tokens? Or were they farming all that gold? Or selling runs?

[kaminaris]

I don't understand. I can certainly understand not wanting to go to new territory of solo play being equal to group play, such as WQs and Torghast giving 226 items, or even really hard solo options giving 226 items, but what exactly is so horrible about going back to older models that still kept a gap between what can be achieved with solo play and group play, while still giving solo players options to progress?

Does it really matter if Tadkins jumps through hoops in difficult single player content or waits for a long time to accrue Conquest through random BG wins and gets 213 ilvl 2 weeks before the next patch when most hardcore or group players had that ilvl months ago?

It really doesnt but some wannabees want to gatekeep as much as possible not realizing the game becoming more and more toxic, content being stretched thin is direct result of that.

Preach did this video (don't really wanna link it, if you really wanna see it, find "rewarding or unrewarding") that talked about:

"what can you do outside of raid or M+? well you can pvp but you're not going to get good stuff [...] there is this argument that the absolute most difficult and highest skilled content in rpg should reward the best stuff [...] but that doesn't meant the difference between that and everyone else should be astronomical"

The irony here is that he is partially responsible for this state of things as he literally complained about everything that gave casual players better rewards.

[Echocho]

The really good solo options always come with the .3 patch, as blizzard can afford to make gearing somewhat easier. Once the content that dropped with the .3 patch has been out for a few months, 4-5 or so, restrictions start to ease up and the last 5-6 months of the expansion you will usually be able to get quite good gear, like the visions in 8.3.

I think the solo/casual options will come in 9.2. Blizzard are probably panicking right now, casuals are leaving left and right to their main competitor. They won't have time to put a bandaid in place for 9.1 so they'll continue to bleed.

Blizzard treated their casual playerbase like shit, WoW has lost more than half of their active players and FFXIV has more than doubled theirs.

- - - Updated - - -

There is no multiplayer if there is no interaction between players. People who want to play a game like WoW solo should look at other games whivh are actually tailored for that gameplay.

Multiplayer doesn't mean coopative instanced PVE. PUBG is a multiplayer game and it has none of that.

- - - Updated - - -

Does it really matter if Tadkins jumps through hoops in difficult single player content or waits for a long time to accrue Conquest through random BG wins and gets 213 ilvl 2 weeks before the next patch when most hardcore or group players had that ilvl months ago?

Apparently yes. It's form manual groups or gtfo, so people are understandably getting the fuck out.

[Tadkins]

Multiplayer doesn't mean coopative instanced PVE. PUBG is a multiplayer game and it has none of that.

I still say, if we're going to have to adhere to that interpretation of the "MMO" definition, we should have to recognize and require the "RPG" part of it too.

"C'mere, I'll bash yer skull in wih me hammer, foul orc!"

Anyone not RPing their characters properly should face consequences. xD

Apparently yes. It's form manual groups or gtfo, so people are understandably getting the fuck out.

That is the impression I'm honestly getting. "Submit to the Raiderio machine or die."

[ellieg]

I still say, if we're going to have to adhere to that interpretation of the "MMO" definition, we should have to recognize and require the "RPG" part of it too.

"C'mere, I'll bash yer skull in wih me hammer, foul orc!"

Anyone not RPing their characters properly should face consequences. xD

That is the impression I'm honestly getting. "Submit to the Raiderio machine or die."

Wouldn't need to get an impression if you actually played the game. Could've fixed your computer yourself and bought shadowlands to try it with all the hours you spent posting about it on here instead.

[Tyrilion]

I'm not sure this is as common as people make it out to be, within my guild we don't really even comment on external peoples gear, casual or not. We are currently pushing Sludgefist Mythic and I don't think any one of my members has even so much as mentioned the catch up mechanisms let alone moaned about them.

I think you're mistaking a "Skilled Player" for an Elitist, some one who thinks just because they got to purple gear first despite not stepping foot in a mythic raid they deserve to have that over everyone else. The only ones who moan are those who are taking a blow to their ego, the average skilled player isn't affected as such.

[Echocho]

We are currently pushing Sludgefist Mythic and I don't think any one of my members has even so much as mentioned the catch up mechanisms let alone moaned about them
.

That's because there aren't any. Casuals have gotten the short end of the stick this expansion. It's premade instanced content or gtfo.

[ellieg]

That's because there aren't any. Casuals have gotten the short end of the stick this expansion. It's premade instanced content or gtfo.

When else have you been able to get a full set of gear near equal to normal raid difficulty within a few hours of hitting 60?