Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[Revamp Man]

that's also a lie. you either failed together as a group or became better as a group. There was no in between. WoW now is a solo game with optional multiplayer content.

you seem to misunderstand
yeah wow had the whole group content down but it was such a mess in the early days that was true about most of it
however compared to other MMOs it was seen as more casual than anything else and it truthfully was because you had no penalty for dying beyond repair bills and the bosses were simple enough that the biggest challenge was getting everyone to do the 1 thing right at the beginning

did it cater to the hardcore guys that liked taking trophies from the players they killed in games like neocron or rohan?? no
did it cater to the guy that kinda ignored people and did the bare minimum to get to the end of quests?? no
did it cater to the pvp gods that refused to do anything beyond world pvp?? definitely not after BGs were introduced

you act as though catering to everyone means everyone in a group but you fail to realize that even back in classic you had solo players

[Daffan]

You are trying to explain to locus that eating all the grain will kill everyone. I don't think the locus care.

lol truth. Their lack of self insight is astonishing.

[Raisei]

I think it's a person by person case. We are, as it's well known, in the generation of the entitled gamer. The people who want everything for nothing.

However, there are plenty of people who are not entitled and don't mind a slow progressions as long as their is a progression path for them. Nobody at all likes to reach a short wall and have nothing to work towards until the next content patch. Yes, people who play all day may get all that awesome gear and get it fast and be in that boat but that's their fault for not taking the game in moderation.

You do missunderstand something. You simply CANNOT get more then one piece of Vault gear per week, no matter if you play 24/7 or just 2-3 hours in the evening (as I do btw), it's specifically made this way so that casual players are not discriminated. You can easily fill your vault and gear up with just a few hours of play time. More hours will not help you at all.
Sure you can farm Stygia every day, but first of all the items you can give a socket too are limited (Rings, Belt, Bracers, Helm) and secondly the power gain from that is absolutely minimal.

So I think the term "casual" is missused in this thread. Maybe you could even say "missapropriated" by the people that demand free stuff because they are "casual" and supposedly the endgame is against them, when it is actually made specifically to their advantage.

By time played per week, I would say I am very much a casual player myself, I work full time, then play in the evening and on the weekened, yet I still fill my Vault and Raid every week. Yet, when I see how the term "casual" is used here I would never identify with that, because the mindset of the people using it, is completely alien to me. I just don't expect to be handed things, when I want something, I work for it.

And yes, if there is another progression path that requires the same effort and difficulty as Mythic Plus (like a 4th line in the Vault, next to Raid, M+ and PvP) I'd be fine with that, but as you state yourself, that will not satisfy the people in this thread.

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this thread really has become meaningless with the original argument lost in 110 pages of questionable comments although it has made me realize 1 thing: Nothing will ever change to make this game great for everyone again. Those that have the time and money to invest in this game are loathe to give those that don't any kind of equal footing to those that don't & the developers of World of Warcraft are completely fine with taking the money of the few than making a game for everyone to enjoy.

As I said above. Gear is capped each week. Unless you are a super good player and can clear the Mythic Raid you get one 226 item a week from the Vault. You can get this for doing ONE M+14. If you do 9 more you only open more choices and reduce the RNG, but after 10 M+ everyone hits the hard cap on gear for the week. This is doable with about 5 hours of play per week, depending on which dungeons, which affixes and so on.
There is NOTHING you can do to get more gear, no matter how many hours you sink into the game, it will not help you. So much for "having the time".

Now for "having the money". Uh... what? This is not some asian P2W MMO, you know that right? Are you actually playing Shadowlands?

I admit if you had limitless money you could trade it for gold with tokens and buy some high level crap from the AH, but apart from the World First raiders this is extremely rare, because the prices are insane. You would literally pay hundreds of dollars or euros for a single piece of loot. Needs a special kind of crazy to do that, so this is definately not a majority thing.

The point is, the game offers a lot, you and a vocal minority just don't happen to want any of that. You want a completely different game and instead of going and finding it, you complain how WoW is not catering to your wishes, because it does the same things it has done for 15 years with huge success.

[Necromantic]

You do missunderstand something. You simply CANNOT get more then one piece of Vault gear per week, no matter if you play 24/7 or just 2-3 hours in the evening (as I do btw), it's specifically made this way so that casual players are not discriminated. You can easily fill your vault and gear up with just a few hours of play time. More hours will not help you at all.
Sure you can farm Stygia every day, but first of all the items you can give a socket too are limited (Rings, Belt, Bracers, Helm) and secondly the power gain from that is absolutely minimal.

So I think the term "casual" is missused in this thread. Maybe you could even say "missapropriated" by the people that demand free stuff because they are "casual" and supposedly the endgame is against them, when it is actually made specifically to their advantage.

By time played per week, I would say I am very much a casual player myself, I work full time, then play in the evening and on the weekened, yet I still fill my Vault and Raid every week. Yet, when I see how the term "casual" is used here I would never identify with that, because the mindset of the people using it, is completely alien to me. I just don't expect to be handed things, when I want something, I work for it.

And yes, if there is another progression path that requires the same effort and difficulty as Mythic Plus (like a 4th line in the Vault, next to Raid, M+ and PvP) I'd be fine with that, but as you state yourself, that will not satisfy the people in this thread.

I never said anything about vault gear. How did you conclude that I did?

The term "casual" is a subjective term, no doubt. It's used by those who live in the game to describe anyone not up to their personal standards, which can be a small or large range. Some who play an hour or two a day or every other day describe themselves as casual. Even people who live in the game will try claiming they're casual, however, only do so to make others who truly are casual feel inept from comments like "I did this, this, this, this, this and capped out that in 1 casual day, why can't you? lol"

As far as some of the people in this thread, I take many of them with a huge grain of salt. People who live in the game tend to be against casual progression. They'll type out some statement to give the impression that they're on board but they'll attempt to poke at any idea anyone comes up with, even if what they say is frivolous, as you can see in previous pages.

[Depakote]

you seem to misunderstand
yeah wow had the whole group content down but it was such a mess in the early days that was true about most of it
however compared to other MMOs it was seen as more casual than anything else and it truthfully was because you had no penalty for dying beyond repair bills and the bosses were simple enough that the biggest challenge was getting everyone to do the 1 thing right at the beginning

did it cater to the hardcore guys that liked taking trophies from the players they killed in games like neocron or rohan?? no
did it cater to the guy that kinda ignored people and did the bare minimum to get to the end of quests?? no
did it cater to the pvp gods that refused to do anything beyond world pvp?? definitely not after BGs were introduced

you act as though catering to everyone means everyone in a group but you fail to realize that even back in classic you had solo players

It's hard to take you seriously when you lie so much.
Hardcore people had World Firsts
PvP people had titles
Casuals had a way to gear up and participate with those who did raids and high level pvp
Nowadays Casuals have nothing because of the steep item level imbalance between those who play this game like it's their job and them. Is that the casual's fault? No. Is that the hardcore's fault? No but their attitude towards casual players sure doesn't help alleviate the problem any.

[Frozenbro]

Nowadays Casuals have nothing because of the steep item level imbalance between those who play this game like it's their job and them.

You are also lying tho, "hardcore players" dont play WoW like its their job unless playing 3 hours for 2-4 days counts as one, cause i've never raided anywhere close to the hours i spend on my job on a daily basis and i get CE just fine, its amazing how much time you can save by knowing how to play the game

[Revamp Man]

It's hard to take you seriously when you lie so much.
Hardcore people had World Firsts
PvP people had titles
Casuals had a way to gear up and participate with those who did raids and high level pvp
Nowadays Casuals have nothing because of the steep item level imbalance between those who play this game like it's their job and them. Is that the casual's fault? No. Is that the hardcore's fault? No but their attitude towards casual players sure doesn't help alleviate the problem any.

The ilvl imbalance that keeps them from doing a +5 and getting 210 gear every week
The ilvl imbalance the prevents them from doing the weekly events that reward 200ilvl and the one that gives 213
The ilvl imbalance that prevents them from doing the dungeons at +5 and unlocking the ability to upgrade their gear to 207
Well there’s the legendary imbalance that only raiders get the really good ones....oh wait lfr has a 100% drop rate

Yeah it’s so stacked against casual players because only hardcore guys get over the 197ilvl

As for attitude just go over this thread and you’ll see “elitists” get blamed for the covenant system and pretty much every bad design choice made by blizzard this expansion all the while the same people complaining think they are entitled to difficult content to the point they want random group finder for the content they themselves admit they can’t do and if anyone disagrees we get told we are lying or it gets overlooked

All you had to say was “no you’re wrong” and you dodged and proceeded to pretty much lie yourself

Everything you posted there doesn’t change the fact that WoW at launch was considered the casual mmo and nothing about that has changed. Timmy can still go into raids and go into BGs and the process is even easier. Your main thing is loot though well good thing you can get loot from all of that too.

Tell me what has the casual player lost??

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You are also lying tho, "hardcore players" dont play WoW like its their job unless playing 3 hours for 2-4 days counts as one, cause i've never raided anywhere close to the hours i spend on my job on a daily basis and i get CE just fine, its amazing how much time you can save by knowing how to play the game

The best part is the average time spent in lfr is longer than most guilds farm clears