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  1. #21
    Warcraft needs a reboot, maybe the Jailer wins and he rewrites the Universe in his own image. We get a hard reboot, everyone loses their memories except for a small few who know the secret history of the world.

  2. #22
    Titan HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Warcraft needs a reboot, maybe the Jailer wins and he rewrites the Universe in his own image. We get a hard reboot, everyone loses their memories except for a small few who know the secret history of the world.
    We don't need a reboot at all...

    We have like...2 major villains left lol

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wigermo View Post
    What if time is different when you are in the realm of death. And when we are done looking for flutes in torghast and come back with azeroths "greatest" champions. only to see the world destroyed by the now headless scourge. Or why not just throw in the legion there again
    I'd love to see this, but I really doubt Blizzard can/wants to invest so much manpower in a WoW xpac anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  4. #24
    Pit Lord Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Danuser is about to take a steaming pile of shit all over you lol

    He did it to those who were waiting a decade+ for N'zoth, Azshara, Nyalotha, Kel'thuzad, Mueh'zala. He's going to do it again to those who are on the edge of their seats for his new stuff.

    Seriously, I don't mean to piss in your cheerios or something. Enjoy what you enjoy. I'm just telling you how it's going to go, unfortunately. I used to defend WoW's lore and paid into all the theories and what not, scour the wiki pages, etc.

    Then Danuser got put in as head of the writing department and destroyed everything, insulting not only the longtime fans, but the writers and their work before him as well.
    Indeed. Like seriously I was soo hyped to see Mueh'zala finally be put ingame. And when did I get?

    "Raawr! Me angry at Bwonsamdi! Me serve da Jailor! "

    Thanks Danuser...

    Nice.... Yeah I could care less what happens to the story now. But if they just do a Hard Reboot, then... maybe I'll think about it

    Oh, ans having Rastakhan be alive for a single patch was a real shit move

    Another day, another Deal....

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    They need ten more writers who want to nail different video game characters, to counter Danuser. That is all.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    Indeed. Like seriously I was soo hyped to see Mueh'zala finally be put ingame. And when did I get?

    "Raawr! Me angry at Bwonsamdi! Me serve da Jailor! "

    Thanks Danuser...

    Nice.... Yeah I could care less what happens to the story now. But if they just do a Hard Reboot, then... maybe I'll think about it

    Oh, ans having Rastakhan be alive for a single patch was a real shit move
    Agree with you all the way on that one. Mueh'zala could've been something real cool. And the return of Rastakhan was great. All two seconds of it.

    It's got me believing that this shit is deliberate. He's destroyed so many YEARS old ongoing cliffhangers, plots, breadcrumbs by just blowing them off with wet farts. "Here's Rastakhan, THE greatest living troll on Azeroth...! ...but now he's dead lol, here have his daughter"

    "Hey remember that random name on that random tablet amongst other tablets dedicated to Farakki gods? Yea he's just a fucking bag of farts that the Jailer used"

    "Hey remember Nazjatar, that place under the ocean where the nagas reside? The same place that's the heart of Azshara's former empire? Yea it's just a pile of rocks and seaweed lol"

    "Hey, yunno N'zoth and Nyalotha? Yea that place isn't even gonna get a zone and we're just gonna take his plot from point A, move it to point B, then move it back to point A again and use him again someday, maybe"

    "Kel'thuzad, am I right? Oops"

    There's just no way this isn't on purpose. Especially when he had that Twitter bio. Just sounds like he's salty at the past writers and is undoing everything, at the expense of the fans.

    He's problematic, and has got to go.
    Last edited by Stardrift; 2021-04-06 at 07:33 PM.

  7. #27
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Pfft...game needs to be taken offline for a year and the damn lore rewritten.
    ..which of course would automatically lead to something awesome coming out at the other end ^^ - I mean...people are already annoyed about retcons..so yeah..a complete re-write will surely go down well.

    InB4 "anything is better than what we have"

    Yeah? Is that why more ppl still play a 16 year old game than any contender that tried to do it better (not least by listening to fans)?
    Last edited by det; 2021-04-06 at 07:38 PM.

  8. #28
    The problem with the plot in WoW is that it simply is not a game equipped to handle complicated morality and such.

    It is nice to imagine a version of the game that really delved into the nitty gritty of morality in the face of injustice, but I think the game has shown that it is not able, or worse yet not willing to tackle it.

    Anduin could be a fascinating character that has his wholehearted desire to do ultimate good in accordance with his beliefs as a priest be challenged by the realities of his position as not just king.
    Jaina could be an exploration of the psyche of someone who wanted peace all her life but had to come ot learn that her father who she thought was a fanatic rascist might have been the person to preemptively stop all this death despite his outward racism.
    Thrall could have been a study of how subconscious beliefs can have radically worse results than you ever thought possible. In his case how his beliefs in Garrosh as the "pure" orc would make him an ideal, not realizing that his idea of the ideal orc was wrong.
    Saurfang could have been a tragic tale of someone so used to war that he never even realized himself how monstrous he was capable of being, his redemption a true masterpiece as he grapples with his identity as the old ideal in a world that needs him to be something he never was.

    Instead we get:

    Anduin, who is always right, even when the story seems to directly oppose that viewpoint.
    Jaina, who swaps between naivete and insanity at the drop of a hat.
    Thrall, who similarly to Anduin is always right, even when the story is in direct conflict with that view.
    And Saurfang, who never had to grapple with his inner and outer demons beccause the game decided that there was none suddenly.

    The game already has everything it needs to create fantastic and compelling stories. The fact that we don't see them is in a sense proof that we might simply not get them ever.


    I wish the story could be more in-depth. I have often expressed my wish for a proper "resolution" to the Forsaken storyline, one where they have to choose what they want their place in the world to be. Whether they want to be the undead remnants, afflicted humans, or even if they want to sever their ties to their former lives completely.
    In this story Calia would absolutely be key, but I just don't think it will happen.

    Though that being said, I would love for the game to prove me wrong.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #29
    Pit Lord Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Agree with you all the way on that one. Mueh'zala could've been something real cool. And the return of Rastakhan was great. All two seconds of it.

    It's got me believing that this shit is deliberate. He's destroyed so many YEARS old ongoing cliffhangers, plots, breadcrumbs by just blowing them off with wet farts. "Here's Rastakhan, THE greatest living troll on Azeroth...! ...but now he's dead lol, here have his daughter"

    "Hey remember that random name on that random tablet amongst other tablets dedicated to Farakki gods? Yea he's just a fucking bag of farts that the Jailer used"

    "Hey remember Nazjatar, that place under the ocean where the nagas reside? The same place that's the heart of Azshara's former empire? Yea it's just a pile of rocks and seaweed lol"

    "Hey, yunno N'zoth and Nyalotha? Yea that place isn't even gonna get a zone and we're just gonna take his plot from point A, move it to point B, then move it back to point A again and use him again someday, maybe"

    "Kel'thuzad, am I right? Oops"

    There's just no way this isn't on purpose. Especially when he had that Twitter bio. Just sounds like he's salty at the past writers and is undoing everything, at the expense of the fans.

    He's problematic, and has got to go.
    It's all realy dissapointing. I remeber when BfA was announced and that the Horde got to go to Zandalar. I was SO excited to finally meet Rastakhan and see what he looked like! Too bad it wasen't for very long.

    Also, I think the parts where Bwonsamdi was pretty much sucking up to the Winter Queen were just disgusting. If anything, he should have a 'Fuck it, do it youself, I do what I want' kind of mood, yet still happy that the Player Character wants to help with with stuff. Eugh

    I nearly wanted to vomit the way he was talking to her. Like, I know he's had past romances in all but, that is just... No
    Last edited by Bwonsamdi the Dead; 2021-04-06 at 11:49 PM.

    Another day, another Deal....

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    It's all realy dissapointing. I remeber when BfA was announced and that the Horde got to go to Zandalar. I was SO excited to finally meet Rastakhan and see what he looked like! Too bad it wasen't for very long.

    Also, I think the parts where Bwonsamdi was pretty much sucking up to the Winter Queen were just disgusting. If anything, he should have a 'Fuck it, do it youself, I do what I want' kind of mood, yet still happy that the Player Character wants to help with with stuff. Eugh

    I nearly wanted to vomit the way he was talking to her. Like, I know he's had past romances in all but, that is just... No
    Does Blizz even write male characters who aren't total simps anymore, whether it would be in character for them or not?

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    It's all realy dissapointing. I remeber when BfA was announced and that the Horde got to go to Zandalar. I was SO excited to finally meet Rastakhan and see what he looked like! Too bad it wasen't for very long.

    Also, I think the parts where Bwonsamdi was pretty much sucking up to the Winter Queen were just disgusting. If anything, he should have a 'Fuck it, do it youself, I do what I want' kind of mood, yet still happy that the Player Character wants to help with with stuff. Eugh

    I nearly wanted to vomit the way he was talking to her. Like, I know he's had past romances in all but, that is just... No
    I remember reading up all about Rastakhan and Zandalari on the wiki. My imagination went wild trying to picture what a Zandalar, risen from the depths with the aid of Azshara, looked like.

    Turns out it never did sink, it was really Wakanda in disguise, and Zul got reduced to a moustache twirling Gul'dan architype that got offed in a raid. Zul could've been his own final boss FFS.

    Yea the grovelling from Bwonsamdi was whack lol. What an odd 180 they did with his character. He started off smug, assertive, sly, and one step ahead. This time around he's just an idiot with a cool voice actor. Still funny though, with a lot of charisma. They just wrote him so poorly this time around. But still glad we got to hang with him.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmalak View Post
    Does Blizz even write male characters who aren't total simps anymore, whether it would be in character for them or not?
    There was Saurfang. But then he fucking died lmao

    Seriously, all of the male characters are so.. effeminate. It's not a bad thing at all for male characters to be different from being big strong decision making men, but for all of them to be effeminate? Kinda smells like someone gets their ideas of how genders are supposed to typically act from Twitter.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Number seven and possibly most important - more amberstill ranch please. Possibly my favourite location in warcraft universe, i really believe it deserve more spotlight. Nothing makes me more excited than thought of those young, buff and tough, wild dwarven cowboys wearing nothing but a cowboy hats and their blue jeans. I think it would make for a great story to have anduin and wrathion to spent some time among them and learn from them.
    Number eight, easily the most important: More zombie dragons.



    The one added to the new starting zone was good, really showing what WoW has to offer, but then what? Hardly any in Shadowlands
    Last edited by Aucald; 2021-04-07 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Removed Duplicated Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Danuser is about to take a steaming pile of shit all over you lol

    He did it to those who were waiting a decade+ for N'zoth, Azshara, Nyalotha, Kel'thuzad, Mueh'zala. He's going to do it again to those who are on the edge of their seats for his new stuff.

    Seriously, I don't mean to piss in your cheerios or something. Enjoy what you enjoy. I'm just telling you how it's going to go, unfortunately. I used to defend WoW's lore and paid into all the theories and what not, scour the wiki pages, etc.

    Then Danuser got put in as head of the writing department and destroyed everything, insulting not only the longtime fans, but the writers and their work before him as well.
    Was Danuser in charge of writing Chronicle and Legion lore? I mean that's where it became damn obvious that Nzoth was barely deserving a patch. Azshara actually got more than she deserved as she had every bit of business being like a wretched or something with the degree of withdrawal she would have had from what she was doing with the well and magic in general. Once she lost the well she should have been immediately on par with Jaina, but as time wore on she would have weakened more.

    KT isn't done so we don't know where that's going. Mueh'zala isn't done either as I can see him escaping.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Was Danuser in charge of writing Chronicle and Legion lore? I mean that's where it became damn obvious that Nzoth was barely deserving a patch. Azshara actually got more than she deserved as she had every bit of business being like a wretched or something with the degree of withdrawal she would have had from what she was doing with the well and magic in general. Once she lost the well she should have been immediately on par with Jaina, but as time wore on she would have weakened more.

    KT isn't done so we don't know where that's going. Mueh'zala isn't done either as I can see him escaping.
    Chronicles set N'zoth up as an underdog compared to his colleagues. Before hand, he was set up as the puppeteer behind Deathwing, the Naga and Azshara, the creator of the Emerald Nightmare, and the one who drove Malygos mad. Through Chronicles, it stated he was the weakest, and controlled the least territory, despite his accomplishments which far outdoes what any other old God had done. I mean, he almost ended the world with Deathwing lmao

    Speaking of Azshara. Where do you get that from that she'd be some wretched? She was already enchanted heavily by Sargeras and the Well of Eternity, and then N'zoth to boot. She, like N'zoth, had build up in the story which added on expectations. They had fans. Blizz had every reason to create something larger for them to feature in.

    Instead, they got blown off. To deny this is just silly lol. And let's be honest, just like everyone else, KT will be finished in 9.1, and MZ is already finished. Where could his story possibly go? He escapes and we get a De Other Side 2.0? Taking the plot from point A, to point B, back to point A again? Nvm, that's already happened with N'zoth, I can see it happening with MZ lmao
    Last edited by Stardrift; 2021-04-07 at 05:44 AM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    We don't need a reboot at all...

    We have like...2 major villains left lol
    Well, three. The Void Lords, Azshara, and Sargeras. Also somewhat dependent on what they do with the Nathrezim and if that thread gets wrapped up in SL.

  16. #36
    Titan HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Well, three. The Void Lords, Azshara, and Sargeras. Also somewhat dependent on what they do with the Nathrezim and if that thread gets wrapped up in SL.
    I mean 2 MAJOR Villains. Azshara and Sargeras will likely return in the Light/Void expac. Sargeras will likely be a fightable boss sometime soon. Idfk.

    The Dreadlords will remain side villains, and that's it. The main guys remaining are the Void Lords (The Light and the Titans are just catalysts to the Void Lords), and the First Ones. Hell, we don't even know if we're fighting the First Ones at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Chronicles set N'zoth up as an underdog compared to his colleagues. Before hand, he was set up as the puppeteer behind Deathwing, the Naga and Azshara, the creator of the Emerald Nightmare, and the one who drove Malygos mad. Through Chronicles, it stated he was the weakest, and controlled the least territory, despite his accomplishments which far outdoes what any other old God had done. I mean, he almost ended the world with Deathwing lmao

    Speaking of Azshara. Where do you get that from that she'd be some wretched? She was already enchanted heavily by Sargeras and the Well of Eternity, and then N'zoth to boot. She, like N'zoth, had build up in the story which added on expectations. They had fans. Blizz had every reason to create something larger for them to feature in.

    Instead, they got blown off. To deny this is just silly lol. And let's be honest, just like everyone else, KT will be finished in 9.1, and MZ is already finished. Where could his story possibly go? He escapes and we get a De Other Side 2.0? Taking the plot from point A, to point B, back to point A again? Nvm, that's already happened with N'zoth, I can see it happening with MZ lmao
    I never got that whole "weakest Old God" argument. That shit got negated once he took command of the Black Empire in 8.3.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmalak View Post
    Does Blizz even write male characters who aren't total simps anymore, whether it would be in character for them or not?
    Uhm...

    There are a lot of them, actually. Velen, Khadgar, Bolvar, Anduin isn't a simp...

    - - - Updated - - -

    "Anduin, who is always right, even when the story seems to directly oppose that viewpoint."
    @Sondrelk

    ...He's getting fucked in the ass this expac.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    I mean 2 MAJOR Villains. Azshara and Sargeras will likely return in the Light/Void expac. Sargeras will likely be a fightable boss sometime soon. Idfk.

    The Dreadlords will remain side villains, and that's it. The main guys remaining are the Void Lords (The Light and the Titans are just catalysts to the Void Lords), and the First Ones. Hell, we don't even know if we're fighting the First Ones at all.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I never got that whole "weakest Old God" argument. That shit got negated once he took command of the Black Empire in 8.3.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Uhm...

    There are a lot of them, actually. Velen, Khadgar, Bolvar, Anduin isn't a simp...

    - - - Updated - - -

    "Anduin, who is always right, even when the story seems to directly oppose that viewpoint."
    @Sondrelk

    ...He's getting fucked in the ass this expac.
    Velen is still around? Are he and Khadgar hiding in the same place? Last I saw Bolvar was saying something along the lines of "I can't look into the Maw lest the Jailer notice." only to immediately change his mind when daughter dearest pleaded "Oh, but Daddy you have to look!" The Lich King being bossed around by his daughter, who only just recently appeared in BfA. And the world was afraid of this guy? Anduin is the biggest culprit of it. He even laid down and let himself get hijacked as the Jailer's weapon for the sake of saving Sylvanas' soul.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    I mean 2 MAJOR Villains. Azshara and Sargeras will likely return in the Light/Void expac. Sargeras will likely be a fightable boss sometime soon. Idfk.

    The Dreadlords will remain side villains, and that's it. The main guys remaining are the Void Lords (The Light and the Titans are just catalysts to the Void Lords), and the First Ones. Hell, we don't even know if we're fighting the First Ones at all.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I never got that whole "weakest Old God" argument. That shit got negated once he took command of the Black Empire in 8.3.
    This is likely one of the biggest issues with wow, the dragonball z power level mentality that every future boss needs to be 'stronger' than the last. So every xpac is peaking over peaking over peaking till its just ludicrously laughable.

    Because power is reduced to a single stat in peoples mind (the power level) and interaction with others is binary (if mypowerlevel > yourpowerlevel i win) there is little nuance around that.
    Nzoth very well could have been the weakest old god, that doesnt necessarily mean the least dangerous. Nzoth corrupted other powerful entities to do his bidding, its like 'whose stronger, the mafia boss or a body builder', its a stupid question, the real question is 'whose more dangerous', which is always the mafia boss.

    This also extends alot to 'importance' where important characters by necessity must be powerful, such as anduin who hasnt done anything to earn powers that can halt the jailer yet somehow does, while also doing backflips cutting tanks in half with his dads sword...

    Illidan wasnt particularly strong on current wow power levels, but he was hella dangerous because of what he was willing to do. he had a planet destroyed to spite the legion, he didnt do it himself with his eye lazers, he concocted a master plan and executed it.

    I want less powerful characters and more dangerous ones. I think garrosh was a good example of that, though poorly implemented imo.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    I mean 2 MAJOR Villains. Azshara and Sargeras will likely return in the Light/Void expac. Sargeras will likely be a fightable boss sometime soon. Idfk.

    The Dreadlords will remain side villains, and that's it. The main guys remaining are the Void Lords (The Light and the Titans are just catalysts to the Void Lords), and the First Ones. Hell, we don't even know if we're fighting the First Ones at all.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I never got that whole "weakest Old God" argument. That shit got negated once he took command of the Black Empire in 8.3.
    It's a strawman argument made by those who (fairly) dislike the old gods stuff. Like I get they dislike it, but to go out there and pretend N'zoth and Azshara aren't names on the playing field is just straight denial lol

    But in the end, it doesn't really matter because both were disposed of like nothing. Azshara melee'd in her bossfight for fuck's sake. Jaina put up much more of a fight than that and she's significantly weaker than her.

    It's the severe mismanagement of these characters that's leading people in the playerbase to believe these characters are just cannon fodder.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Chronicles set N'zoth up as an underdog compared to his colleagues. Before hand, he was set up as the puppeteer behind Deathwing, the Naga and Azshara, the creator of the Emerald Nightmare, and the one who drove Malygos mad. Through Chronicles, it stated he was the weakest, and controlled the least territory, despite his accomplishments which far outdoes what any other old God had done. I mean, he almost ended the world with Deathwing lmao

    Speaking of Azshara. Where do you get that from that she'd be some wretched? She was already enchanted heavily by Sargeras and the Well of Eternity, and then N'zoth to boot. She, like N'zoth, had build up in the story which added on expectations. They had fans. Blizz had every reason to create something larger for them to feature in.

    Instead, they got blown off. To deny this is just silly lol. And let's be honest, just like everyone else, KT will be finished in 9.1, and MZ is already finished. Where could his story possibly go? He escapes and we get a De Other Side 2.0? Taking the plot from point A, to point B, back to point A again? Nvm, that's already happened with N'zoth, I can see it happening with MZ lmao
    She was not "enchanted heavily" by Nzoth. She was transformed into a Naga. I'd also like some confirmation of the Sargeras part on precisely what he gave her. She was intrigued by him(which is honestly out of the character that she became over time), but I never saw any specific empowerment that I recall, but could be wrong. I already told you about the well. Literally every single character with much lesser versions of addiction and then withdrawal became some sort of wretched. The lady literally SWAM in the well and lived beside it. She should be shaking like a crackhead. The well doesn't offer permanent enhancement short of on a species level over time. Individuals who are using it/living near it are merely borrowing power from it.

    I'd also like citation on Nzoth being the one "behind" the nightmare and Malygos. Nothing was changed there. Hell the name Nzoth wasn't even uttered for a very long time in lore, 2010 Blizzcon at that. Might want to separate speculation and head canon from reality as there was never direct indication he had anything to do with what you're saying. Hell I'll even go a step further to correct that I'm fairly certain it wasn't Chronicle the cemented him being the weakest, but rather Legion. Furthermore, most of what people claimed wasn't even cemented into being until Chronicle 3 where it actually IS the point that actually made him seem like a valid threat, but then in reality if you consider things, he still wasn't as he used his gambit in Cataclysm. So in reality Nzoth wasn't even validated until somewhat recently and even then still not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    I mean 2 MAJOR Villains. Azshara and Sargeras will likely return in the Light/Void expac. Sargeras will likely be a fightable boss sometime soon. Idfk.

    The Dreadlords will remain side villains, and that's it. The main guys remaining are the Void Lords (The Light and the Titans are just catalysts to the Void Lords), and the First Ones. Hell, we don't even know if we're fighting the First Ones at all.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I never got that whole "weakest Old God" argument. That shit got negated once he took command of the Black Empire in 8.3.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Uhm...

    There are a lot of them, actually. Velen, Khadgar, Bolvar, Anduin isn't a simp...

    - - - Updated - - -

    "Anduin, who is always right, even when the story seems to directly oppose that viewpoint."
    @Sondrelk

    ...He's getting fucked in the ass this expac.
    I mean one thing entirely changed by all of this Nathrezim thing is: They're not creatures of fel but can clearly come back to Azeroth....did they go to Shadowlands and return? And on that note, while one could have argued due to how they keep changing the "must die in the nether" to include "well fel saturated areas count too" that several of them actually died and I think some might have been killed in the nether like Balnazar, but clearly the nether doesn't matter as they aren't true demons....or it seems like that might be the case.

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