Suggestions to keep the Story on Track!

[Super Dickmann]

Zul's introduction and first questline where you help him with his apprentice was by far the best. To turn him into a cultist was a massive waste of resources. To turn him into a Horde antagonist at all instead of having him join up with the Horde is an even bigger one. His hands-on take on prophecy, goals and much else would both liven up the faction and be a much better use of all his build up than being the goon to a giant maggot, even if overall I think the G'huun story was handled decently enough.

[Stardrift]

She was not "enchanted heavily" by Nzoth. She was transformed into a Naga. I'd also like some confirmation of the Sargeras part on precisely what he gave her. She was intrigued by him(which is honestly out of the character that she became over time), but I never saw any specific empowerment that I recall, but could be wrong. I already told you about the well. Literally every single character with much lesser versions of addiction and then withdrawal became some sort of wretched. The lady literally SWAM in the well and lived beside it. She should be shaking like a crackhead. The well doesn't offer permanent enhancement short of on a species level over time. Individuals who are using it/living near it are merely borrowing power from it.

I'd also like citation on Nzoth being the one "behind" the nightmare and Malygos. Nothing was changed there. Hell the name Nzoth wasn't even uttered for a very long time in lore, 2010 Blizzcon at that. Might want to separate speculation and head canon from reality as there was never direct indication he had anything to do with what you're saying. Hell I'll even go a step further to correct that I'm fairly certain it wasn't Chronicle the cemented him being the weakest, but rather Legion. Furthermore, most of what people claimed wasn't even cemented into being until Chronicle 3 where it actually IS the point that actually made him seem like a valid threat, but then in reality if you consider things, he still wasn't as he used his gambit in Cataclysm. So in reality Nzoth wasn't even validated until somewhat recently and even then still not.

- - - Updated - - -



I mean one thing entirely changed by all of this Nathrezim thing is: They're not creatures of fel but can clearly come back to Azeroth....did they go to Shadowlands and return? And on that note, while one could have argued due to how they keep changing the "must die in the nether" to include "well fel saturated areas count too" that several of them actually died and I think some might have been killed in the nether like Balnazar, but clearly the nether doesn't matter as they aren't true demons....or it seems like that might be the case.

Can you provide links and citations for your claims? Or are you just going to continue strawmanning?

- - - Updated - - -

I think that having Zul be the main 'villlian' for 8.1 or just... Still be kept around? Maybe he could've exposed himself in he Dazar'alor raid and everyone wanted to kill him instead of Rastakhan. Heck, even have the Alliance kill Talanji, and make Rastakhan lose his shit at them and end up joing the Horde after all.

Also, I think that since Bwonsamdi is now Talanji's "Loa", if she ever becomes a Warmonger, he'll just 'hold her back' and sternly tell her what happened to her father when he demanded his aid. She'll probably demand for him to help her as well, this is why i'm saying this lol



I think if the Winter Queen ever dies/gets her ass kicked, he should just be like 'Aww... What's da matta? Ya need my help?' mockingly. And just... leaves, but not before telling her that this is what it feels like to be needing help from someone, because you're hurt. Have her be humbled lol

And, what could be done to "fix" his writing? Get a new person who's good at writing men to write for him? Just leave him be until trolls are relevant again?

And I hope Mueh'zala comes back again


Yeah, Orcs tend to be the most... well, manly. Trolls too, but Blizzard loves to use them as a punching bag

- - - Updated - - -

And give use zombie Rastakhan Blizzard

Can you imagine if Bwon held Talanji's soul over Rasta's head? lol What a missed opportunity. Kul'tiras and Zandalar could've been two seperate expansions of their own.

- - - Updated - - -

Zul's introduction and first questline where you help him with his apprentice was by far the best. To turn him into a cultist was a massive waste of resources. To turn him into a Horde antagonist at all instead of having him join up with the Horde is an even bigger one. His hands-on take on prophecy, goals and much else would both liven up the faction and be a much better use of all his build up than being the goon to a giant maggot, even if overall I think the G'huun story was handled decently enough.

It was decent, but they used the wrong character as the Gul'dan architype. Zul definitely could've brought a lot to the table for the Horde. Especially alongside the Zandalari.

I just fucking hate this plastic "inclusivity" vibe they're going for with the Horde. All the leaders are women save for the Blood Elves and Tauren. Nothing would be wrong with that if it weren't for them just killing off all the strong male cast and replacing with characters that just don't have any sort of legitimacy to their thrones. Yet, Baine is a yes man to Anduin, and Lor'themar is just.. beating his meat to Thalyssra. The Horde just isn't the Horde anymore lol.

[Super Dickmann]

It was decent, but they used the wrong character as the Gul'dan architype. Zul definitely could've brought a lot to the table for the Horde. Especially alongside the Zandalari.

I just fucking hate this plastic "inclusivity" vibe they're going for with the Horde. All the leaders are women save for the Blood Elves and Tauren. Nothing would be wrong with that if it weren't for them just killing off all the strong male cast and replacing with characters that just don't have any sort of legitimacy to their thrones. Yet, Baine is a yes man to Anduin, and Lor'themar is just.. beating his meat to Thalyssra. The Horde just isn't the Horde anymore lol.

All true, but more than that, the entire story feels disjointed. Zul is set up as this prophet who scares Jaina off, sets Stormwind on fire and then walks you through all of his tricks in dealing with his apprentice. Someone conspiring and in the shadows and competent. He achieves most of his goals throughout. His goal to raise Dazar (with his mind intact or as a puppet) does fit with wanting to restore the Zandalari golden age and rule of the world by trolls. Him and Rastakhan have a great beef going. And then it completely shits the bed by making him an insane cultist, relegating his Dazar plan to a non-entity where he instead dies speaking entirely in generic villain lines and comes back as a personality-less drone. Admittedly the story goes back to some of the interesting bits, like how the Zandalari really have nothing in common with a Horde full of elves and undead who's fought them before and with Talanji's attitude after her father's death, but like most stories it's tied in too neat a bow. Even something as basic as having his plan with Dazar fail first and have him go into the bit with G'huun out of despair would improve the story, though it'd still be a waste as compared to having him be a long-lasting villain unassociated with G'huun or a shifty ally like Magatha and Sylvanas were.

As for the Horde Council, the less said about them the better. BFA is the culmination of what was started with Mists in terms of watering down what the Horde entailed, but whereas Mists contented itself with just wrecking the main race and turning Baine into an eternal punchline, BFA ran the whole gamut. I don't mind Talanji as much as a lot of people do, but Rastakhan was a more compelling character with not just build-up but an interesting arc with him. The overall softening of Bwonsamdi also fucked up this storyline, since he goes from macabre and obviously with incompatible wants given his nabbing of souls to a mostly unambiguous good guy. This damages him and makes big and well made moments like Rastakhan's deal with Bwon or Talanji's refusal to take his terms at the end of the recruitment questline fall completely flat.

[VladlTutushkin]

What I want - After the events of Shadowlands, Anduin is truly forever changed, but has learned enough through his experiences to truly be a king. The factions have learned to move past their hatreds to some extent and agree to a true peace treaty (though not one where Humans are living in Orgrimmar or the like). The remaining barriers to true peace (e.g. Talan'ji and her anger over Rastakhan's death) find a true resolution by the end of Shadowlands (e.g. Rastakhan visiting her from the Shadowlands). With this peace in place, each faction is able to spend an expansion rebuilding for their people, concluding open stories, and gearing for the future.

What I'll think I'll get - Anduin is redeemed and the Jailer is stopped through the help of Sylvanas. Everyone is ready to go back to normal, but Turalyon won't give the throne back due to Anduin's darkness. Yrel and her army invades Azeroth. The Light & Void invade and take out the Exodar & Silvermoon City, leaving yet more races crashing on couches in Stormwind/Orgrimmar. The story moves forward without threads like Gilneas being resolved.

I dont think Talanji’s gripe with Alliance is the biggest one. If anything she would have to kill her Dad to become a Troll Queen one day (if history of like, every second other Zandalari King or Queen is anything to go by).

Tyrande’s desire for justice and entire night elves race gripe with the Horde thats what a real issue is.

And by issue i dont mean “they are the issue” i mean “horde causing that issue is the issue”.

[LemonDemonGirl]

As for the Horde Council, the less said about them the better. BFA is the culmination of what was started with Mists in terms of watering down what the Horde entailed, but whereas Mists contented itself with just wrecking the main race and turning Baine into an eternal punchline, BFA ran the whole gamut. I don't mind Talanji as much as a lot of people do, but Rastakhan was a more compelling character with not just build-up but an interesting arc with him. The overall softening of Bwonsamdi also fucked up this storyline, since he goes from macabre and obviously with incompatible wants given his nabbing of souls to a mostly unambiguous good guy. This damages him and makes big and well made moments like Rastakhan's deal with Bwon or Talanji's refusal to take his terms at the end of the recruitment questline fall completely flat.

Yeah, he's this goofy guy who appears to be shady at first, but he never does anything bad and serves basically the Troll version of the Devil. And now he's even softer smh

[Kyphael]

Danuser is about to take a steaming pile of shit all over you lol

He did it to those who were waiting a decade+ for N'zoth, Azshara, Nyalotha, Kel'thuzad, Mueh'zala. He's going to do it again to those who are on the edge of their seats for his new stuff.

Seriously, I don't mean to piss in your cheerios or something. Enjoy what you enjoy. I'm just telling you how it's going to go, unfortunately. I used to defend WoW's lore and paid into all the theories and what not, scour the wiki pages, etc.

Then Danuser got put in as head of the writing department and destroyed everything, insulting not only the longtime fans, but the writers and their work before him as well.

This. My enthusiasm for WoW has been slowly dying over the years since Legion. Legion brought me back, but I saw Argus turned into a tiny little daily zone, and then we fight... Argus instead of Sargeras. Then there was N'yalotha, Azshara, and... excess of Sylvanas everywhere, yeah... there is no more excitement for lore in general.

[Stardrift]

This. My enthusiasm for WoW has been slowly dying over the years since Legion. Legion brought me back, but I saw Argus turned into a tiny little daily zone, and then we fight... Argus instead of Sargeras. Then there was N'yalotha, Azshara, and... excess of Sylvanas everywhere, yeah... there is no more excitement for lore in general.

It's just in a really bad place and I've no idea how they're going to recover from it. I see people mentioning a time skip, but that would require a lot of new stuff, and a lot of new history to be put between now and the future present.

Luckily, Azshara and N'zoth have gone from point A, to point B, and immediately put back to point A again. Hopefully someday, under a real writer who can respect their fans, they can be revisited and done properly.

But as for Argus, KT, Mueh'zala, Bolvar.. They're done for.