Gearing - Whats wrong with Blizzard ???

[huth]

Right. And that cap didn't exist in BfA, Legion or even Wrath. It's a cap put into place exclusively for this expansion to screw over the casual playerbase.

Actually, it existed in all of those. People didn't notice it in Legion or BfA as much since most humans can't really grasp probabilities, but you were still stuck at the average ilvl of the content you did. Wrath worked pretty much the exact same as SL.

[Zantera]

Right. And that cap didn't exist in BfA, Legion or even Wrath. It's a cap put into place exclusively for this expansion to screw over the casual playerbase.

I mean BFA and Legion had terrible RNG with titanforge/warforge where bad and/or lazy players could be rewarded with better (or equal) gear to good and dedicated people. Not sure if that's a great system, sure it pleased the casuals but you didn't have that level of RNG with gear in the 'good old days'.

And back before TF/WF you had some welfare epics casuals could get in the form of valor gear (or 5-man dungeons) but if anyone wanted to aspire to higher levels than that they still had to join a guild or find players to team up with - nothing really new there.

Everyone has their own cap ceiling of skill/level of dedication they want to put in and it will differ for everyone but if you're struggling to do the next level higher keys than you currently are for gear, I don't think gear is the issue. Yeah if you're a 190 ilvl character who is looking to jump from doing +2s-+3s to +14 then it will be a smack in the face but if you are doing 7s-8s fine then doing 10s is not a gear issue.

[Temp name]

yeah, good idea. but running a m+10 in 202 item level seems not intended. so whats the intended way to improve when between 7 and 10 only drops 200 ???

Why wouldn't it be?
Blizzard always tunes content around you getting gear from doing it. So a +15 which drops 210 should be doable in ~200-205 gear.
Heroic raids which drop 213/220 are doable in ~200-210 gear, depending on what boss it is.

yeah you might not 1shot the content, but it'll be doable.

Either run your own keys, or make your own pug for heroic.
Or maybe make friends and join a guild

[Draknalor186]

yeah, good idea. but running a m+10 in 202 item level seems not intended. so whats the intended way to improve when between 7 and 10 only drops 200 ???

You can upgrade any ilvl 200 to 213 now, with valor.

I used it on 2 rings, 2 trinkets and 1 1h weapon for an alt.

[Soon-TM]

The difference was that WF/TF could happen anywhere. You could get mythic raiding gear from a catch 10 squirrels WQ, theoretically. Which incentivized doing all content, even the lowest, in the hopes of winning the lotto. The chest is one guaranteed TF per week. See the difference?

I see it, and it leads me to think that this extreme emphasis on World of Vaultcraft makes up for a very boring game.

[Ausr]

That easier said than done if you have social anxiety or can't play on a schedule. You could also already have reached your skill ceiling. If you can't get any better how are you supposed to "git gud"?

That's your problem. And yes, being ina guild can still help that.

If you've reached your skill ceiling, again, that's on you.

[kamuimac]

I mean BFA and Legion had terrible RNG with titanforge/warforge where bad and/or lazy players could be rewarded with better (or equal) gear to good and dedicated people. Not sure if that's a great system, sure it pleased the casuals but you didn't have that level of RNG with gear in the 'good old days'.

And back before TF/WF you had some welfare epics casuals could get in the form of valor gear (or 5-man dungeons) but if anyone wanted to aspire to higher levels than that they still had to join a guild or find players to team up with - nothing really new there.

Everyone has their own cap ceiling of skill/level of dedication they want to put in and it will differ for everyone but if you're struggling to do the next level higher keys than you currently are for gear, I don't think gear is the issue. Yeah if you're a 190 ilvl character who is looking to jump from doing +2s-+3s to +14 then it will be a smack in the face but if you are doing 7s-8s fine then doing 10s is not a gear issue.

TF gave people reason to do stuff in game

now what people did is they left game to play something else

if that was blizzard goal to lose majority of playerbase then i guess they succeded 100 % .

that said if i would loose my company 50% of customers i would be fired and unemployable in industry i work for

somehow blizzard is ok with Ion making such decisions.

i mean clearly that was their goal .

- - - Updated - - -

I see it, and it leads me to think that this extreme emphasis on World of Vaultcraft makes up for a very boring game.

tbh i find only way to enjoy this game is do 4 m+ 12-14 on 4 alt and then get 4 rewards at the end of the week. it gives me 10-12 hours of gameplay .

its getting really boring though runing the same dungeons over and over - and i get why some enjoy toxic.io - because pushing those scores is only thing that is happening atm in game. rest is meaningless unless i would mythic raid.

it is compeltly horrible game design .

[Ealyssa]

ofc i know: i can join a guild.... thats not the point here.

It actually kinda is.

It's a MMORPG, a genre that specifically expect some investment from its player. It's not Fortnite, you can't just log in and instantly queue with randoms for every single part of its content. And it never will.

You are totally free to not want that kind of investment, but that's what WoW asked since day one. They never lied about it, you expect something that never was in this game.

[clevin]

? +4 rewards 194 ilv at end of dungeon which becomes 207 in weekly vault, +8 rewards 200 ilv at end of dungeon but weekly jumps to ilv 216.

Vault rewards aren't the point though. First, they're one piece per week and second, they can easily be in a slot where you have good gear already. For example, if I get a 220 from next week's vault for the 10s I've timed, but they're chests... I have a 220 chest. Legs are 226. Etc.

Now you could say that end of dungeon rewards aren't much better but unlike say a raid, you can run M+ every day as long as you have keys to run. It's a near unlimited opportunity at loot compared to raids.

So, this makes sense but it penalizes the players who DON'T run M+ obsessively to protect against those who do. I get the reasoning, but if you just run a few M+ a week you're unlikely to get gear and the gear you do get is lower than or the same level as your campaign gear. So it's useless. THAt'S THE POINT and a lot of you seem to miss it. Right now you have a very fast curve up from 150 or so to 200. Then it's effectively flat until you start doing 10s, really. For what they should have done:

1) cap covenant and honor gear at 184. That would make M0 through M7 or so useful as well as LFR.
2) compress the M+ range so that 15 was 10. 10s would reward what 15s do now. Treat 11+ as you do 16+ now.
3) Eliminate the flat spots in the M+ loot curve. Ever higher key gives a (slight) boost to item level.

There. Fixed. As long as they do the M+ curve correctly, you still keep the same relation between it and raiding. PVP is no longer the best way to max out your gear. And M0 through 4 and LFR has relevance for people who are casual and fine with that gear range.

[cuafpr]

agree with OP mostly.. gearing SL is horrid, maybe it's better now? I play maybe 1-2 times a month now so not sure. I was all in at launch thinking of even getting back into raiding but the gear wall was apparent after countless HCs with no upgrades I lost interest. why they can't use badges as they did in WotLK is beyond me.....

[Ohvul]

ITT: why can't I gear up more easily, the current methods are too slow and I'm unwilling to do content that requires me to pay attention and play at a level where my gear doesn't carry me

You should have no problem healing 12s and 13s at 200ilvl if you're having problems putting 7-10s you're picking crap groups or you're crap.

Like give me a break you're talking about 1400 pvp being too difficult, heroic raids an impossibility and to add ontop at >200ilvl you are too scared/incompetent to make up for the damage 210ilvl health pool dps take in 9+

You dont deserve better cause all you are competent enough to ever do are <10s and normal mode

[MiiiMiii]

I, for one, am happy M+ is not mandatory this expansion and raiders get to raid without doing it, from what I have heard.

[Teucer]

That's your problem. And yes, being ina guild can still help that.

If you've reached your skill ceiling, again, that's on you.

Exactly, you shouldn't be expecting to get a bunch of 226 drops if you can't do +10s. Plus the great vault systems protects against this, you're getting gear slower but still upgrades. Also, 1400 rating is not nearly as hard as people make it out to be to get - especially if you do RBGs and are skill capped yourself. Then there are the Timewalking and Mythic dungeon events which can give you 200+ ilvl loot.

[Shaetha]

ofc i know: i can join a guild.... thats not the point here.

so you acknowledge the solution to your problem and wish to do nothing about it.

[ellieg]

Have you ever gave a single thought about implication of this? Yes it is bad, its really really bad.
Being permanently behind a curve means having hard time to find any group at this point. For M+ there are already "better geared" people. For raiding guilds/pugs it's the same.

Especially with this scaling where 10 ilvls is massive difference. It's not "progressing at your own pace", its essentially being excluded from content as there are better geared people out there.

So according to you, someone who started this week should be able to catch up to me who started this week? Progress in an mmorpg shouldn't mean anything? Thats why we have seasons

[Aleksej89]

seems blizz wants to force you to join a guild (or have several friends) that are willing to do some ineffective raiding/mythics to get you gear.

Or spend tons of gold to buy boosts or BOE.

[Holyshnikies]

I agree 100% OP. However, I like to provide a solution rather than a complaint or a snarky remark. So my method was actually quite simple. Once I hit 208 ilvl, back in January and I hit that same wall, I simple unsubscribed and started playing another game. Then, when Blizzard announced BC and I knew the only thing they could really mess up with it was introducing paid mounts, I thought, BC is where it's at! So my classic character is now 52 and I'm still having fun with it.

[Zantera]

TF gave people reason to do stuff in game

now what people did is they left game to play something else

if that was blizzard goal to lose majority of playerbase then i guess they succeded 100 % .

that said if i would loose my company 50% of customers i would be fired and unemployable in industry i work for

somehow blizzard is ok with Ion making such decisions.

i mean clearly that was their goal .

- - - Updated - - -



tbh i find only way to enjoy this game is do 4 m+ 12-14 on 4 alt and then get 4 rewards at the end of the week. it gives me 10-12 hours of gameplay .

its getting really boring though runing the same dungeons over and over - and i get why some enjoy toxic.io - because pushing those scores is only thing that is happening atm in game. rest is meaningless unless i would mythic raid.

it is compeltly horrible game design .

You talk about TF like it was this great thing they took away from us. In reality, when people talk about their favorite expansion or the 'golden days' they very rarely are talking about the TF era, they are talking about Wotlk, TBC, Classic, or even MoP. Way before the days of LFR items rolling up to mythic items. So you can clearly have a system that works without casino RNG.

[huth]

You talk about TF like it was this great thing they took away from us. In reality, when people talk about their favorite expansion or the 'golden days' they very rarely are talking about the TF era, they are talking about Wotlk, TBC, Classic, or even MoP. Way before the days of LFR items rolling up to mythic items. So you can clearly have a system that works without casino RNG.

That's more to do with them generally talking about expansions so far in the past that their recollection of them isn't... perfectly accurate anymore. Which Legion and BfA are simply to recent for. Wait a few years, and you'll see it about Legion, too.

[archelos91]

Just curious, does anyone else just see gear as a means to an end? I tend to clear heroic raid then quit till next raid release, I really dont care which items I do or dont get during the process. I understand that gear makes progression easier but lets be honest the average player over gears the content they are doing essentially invalidating the drops they do get, vault doesnt really help this issue by giving out random high ilvl gear compared to the content you are able to complete.