Blizz should have copied Hades for torghast design

[BrintoSFJ]

no one knew about hades before launch?
its not like its by a well known developer know for superb games
its not like its been in early access for quite a long time
its not like there was an actual noclip documentation showing the early access development process

just because it wasnt in your focus, doesnt mean it was in no one else's.

apart from that, you want a small part of wow to be as fleshed out as a huuuuuuge game that was in development for several years. thats just not feasable.

Indeed, I have known about Hades since 2019.

[FelPlague]

I mean, sure the game exploded in popularity after release, no doubt there. But it was by no means a super obscure title before hand, with major online publications covering it and it being the crown jewel of the Epic Game Store for quite a while. Being made by a group that had put out some very well known indie games and being pretty eagerly anticipated by a lot of players kind of makes this a case of being a product that was very well known by fans, but maybe not the public at large.

Considering that Blizzard is in the business of making PC games, there is no way that they weren't very well aware of Hades. Considering how much Torghast actually resembles Hades is structure, it's pretty obvious that they took a good deal of inspiration from the game.

It resembles hades because its a roguelite and hades is a roguelite.

and nah, why bother keeping an eye on every single game ever that will never be competition to the game.

[Wangming]

On second thought I think the emotionally repressed father angle is a better idea.

Varian as a villain. Oh my. XD

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Considering how much Torghast actually resembles Hades is structure, it's pretty obvious that they took a good deal of inspiration from the game.

In what ways do you think Torghast resembles hades?

The only real similarity’s I can think of just Come down to basic rouge like design and them both being able dead people.

[jellmoo]

It resembles hades because its a roguelite and hades is a roguelite.

and nah, why bother keeping an eye on every single game ever that will never be competition to the game.

There are Roguelikes that aren't *this* similar out there.

Because they are also gamers, and want to play fun games. And I would argue that any game that manages to get people to spend hundreds of hours playing is absolutely competition for WoW.

[Kumorii]

beyond the same sort of power acqusition, even the layout is the same. 4 biomes and repeating pieces. Very little variance. Hades have a more of a different feel to everything though...but the more I think about it the similar the two becomes.

I mean, before someone points it out, the gameplay is obviously different.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

It's a joke about how he was an irredeemable asshole and would just get chucked into the Maw, regardless of death being broken.

Well that joke falls flat when we already know he's not there and instead in Revendreth.

[jellmoo]

In what ways do you think Torghast resembles hades?

The only real similarity’s I can think of just Come down to basic rouge like design and them both being able dead people.

The theme I think definitely adds to it, but also if you look at the structure, it's pretty similar. Collecting the ideal set of powers as you go along, collecting a resources so you can buy upgrades, fighting mini bosses and bosses.

Yes, it absolutely is a side effect of both being roguelikes, but the overall effect of everything makes for a very similar experience.

[Jester Joe]

It resembles hades because its a roguelite and hades is a roguelite.

and nah, why bother keeping an eye on every single game ever that will never be competition to the game.

I wouldn't say Torghast resembles Dead Cells, yet it's also a roguelite.

There's some differences to them overall, especially power acquisition.

Some, like Enter the Gungeon, are based off finding your weapons along the way with things that affect your weapons. Dead Cells is kinda similar in that regard but rather than affecting your weapons themselves, you get to pick to increase one of three stats to increase the weapons damage and your health.

Hades meanwhile, has a set ability pool that you pick, and then the powers you gain along the way affect those abilities. Which is more in line with Torghast than other roguelites where your attacks/abilities are randomly found instead. There's more similarities than being given credit for, whether or not its intentional.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The theme I think definitely adds to it, but also if you look at the structure, it's pretty similar. Collecting the ideal set of powers as you go along, collecting a resources so you can buy upgrades, fighting mini bosses and bosses.

Yes, it absolutely is a side effect of both being roguelikes, but the overall effect of everything makes for a very similar experience.

You know this would describe say the binding of Isaac right? It’s so incredibly vague and wide to the point of being meaningless.

[Jester Joe]

You know this would describe say the binding of Isaac right? It’s so incredibly vague and wide to the point of being meaningless.

It wouldn't though. Binding of Isaac does have a completely different theme (twisted/horror more than anything), and as I said before, there's variations within roguelites.

Binding of Isaac starts you off with a single move, and then you just accept what you get along the way. There's not much choice besides "do I pick this up or no".

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Isn't the main problem with it built around how its reward structure is? They basically tied soul ash thus legendary items to it to force participation. I am sure at all their meetings it's like.. look.. torghast is awesome.. everyone is doing it! So what happens is everyone does it the one time a week for the lock out allotted soul ash and then forgets about it. More or less is its only value.

They probably should have just stuffed a bunch of cosmetics, toys, mounts, and pets in there and make it an unlimited floor structure. Not to mention adding more powers. I mean every run I get basically the same exact build. Sure it still has its natural end but each season you can stuff more junk like that in. So it gives a lot of people an endless grind for things that are cool but not required. Things are fresher because you have different powers and builds that happen as you go though it. Every season more stuff gets stuffed in probably as the level of achievable floors goes up.

But since everything in this game has to be tied within systems upon systems we are stuck with do it for the week because you kind of got to (at least to a certain point) and then forget about it.

[jellmoo]

You know this would describe say the binding of Isaac right? It’s so incredibly vague and wide to the point of being meaningless.

How else can I describe the similarities though? Venturing through a prison in the realm of the damned, collecting an esoteric group of ideal powers, purchasing just the right buffs, learning how to defeat mini bosses and bosses are the crux of both games. Are the absolutely identical? Of course not, the difference in gametype and camera obviously attribute some key differences.

Are there a ton of similarities to them? Absolutely. Similarities that go deeper than both just being a roguelike? Yeah, I certainly think so.

[Biggles Worth]

Roguelikes/roguelites don't work as well for mmo-style gameplay compared to hack-n-slash and platformers

What other MMOs have tried this?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It wouldn't though. Binding of Isaac does have a completely different theme (twisted/horror more than anything), and as I said before, there's variations within roguelites.

Binding of Isaac starts you off with a single move, and then you just accept what you get along the way. There's not much choice besides "do I pick this up or no".

Binding of isaac’s theme has about as much over lap as hades and torghast does, all three are about death and past that vary greatly.

It also had shops with multiple items devil deals challenge rooms where you can pick one of multiple choices item rerolls and likely more I’m forgetting, it’s not just a binary pick it up or don’t.

[darklogrus]

Its a mix of FFXIV Endless Dungeon, D3 Greater Rifts and Hades Power system. Only problem is Blizzard puts the bare minimal effort into anything that isn't its Big 2..

[Jester Joe]

Binding of isaac’s theme has about as much over lap as hades and torghast does, all three are about death and past that vary greatly.

It also had shops with multiple items devil deals challenge rooms where you can pick one of multiple choices item rerolls and likely more I’m forgetting, it’s not just a binary pick it up or don’t.

I wouldn't say Isaac is about death at all.

And what Hades/Torghast has isn't death, but afterlife.


Also the "Pick it up or don't" is about the powers themselves. There is no actual choice when it comes to the power you're getting, you're not picking up an item to get multiple choices of how it will affect you.

[Soon-TM]

What other MMOs have tried this?

None afaik. And fortunately so.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

How else can I describe the similarities though? Venturing through a prison in the realm of the damned, collecting an esoteric group of ideal powers, purchasing just the right buffs, learning how to defeat mini bosses and bosses are the crux of both games. Are the absolutely identical? Of course not, the difference in gametype and camera obviously attribute some key differences.

Are there a ton of similarities to them? Absolutely. Similarities that go deeper than both just being a roguelike? Yeah, I certainly think so.

See if hades was limited to Tartarus Id agree with you but it’s more then that.

Neither Asphodel nor Elysium are filled with the damned nor are they prisons and the saytr caves aren’t even in the under world. hades encompasses the whole of the under world both good and bad where torghast is just the damned.

As far as theme goes it’d be like putting bastion, Erebtweld and the under mines into torghast.

Past that powers, mini and normal based ect that’s just standard rouge like features.

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I wouldn't say Isaac is about death at all.

And what Hades/Torghast has isn't death, but afterlife.


Also the "Pick it up or don't" is about the powers themselves. There is no actual choice when it comes to the power you're getting, you're not picking up an item to get multiple choices of how it will affect you.

I mean Isaac has heaven, hell, ghost of your pets, you can be a ghost/demon your self depending on what character you take and can go beat up the devil. How is it any less about death and the after life?

And is there really any functional difference between picking a power from a group and picking up an item and then making the choice? Seems like splitting hairs they work the same way functionally.

[Belloc]

It would be cool, yes, but it presents at least a few issues:

• Pacing: The more dialog an average player has to wait for, the less interested they will be in the content. This becomes even worse in group situations.
• Lore: Do we really want to see these beloved characters trapped in Torghast?
• Consistency: WoW isn't particularly known for incredible lore. Why invest the time in a one-off mode that most players lose interest in quickly?