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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Here is hoping that in a year or so, Intel enters the market and is competitive enough if the drivers hold up.


    Going to be using my 1060GTX with 6Gb ram till prices are more normal again.
    I have serious doubts on the mythical Intel GPU being anything but a gimmick.
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  2. #182
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    I have serious doubts on the mythical Intel GPU being anything but a gimmick.
    They seem fairly serious about it and are branching out more, time will tell if it works or not but i do not get the impression it is just there for show.
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  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Here is hoping that in a year or so, Intel enters the market and is competitive enough if the drivers hold up.

    Going to be using my 1060GTX with 6Gb ram till prices are more normal again.
    The Intel DG2 is supposedly competitive with a 3070 - which is a good sweet spot, if prices are good and performance are actually the ones of a 3070.

    The ones reviewed around is a low tier "i cannot get anything better that works" kind of card. WHich actually is still a good market - given now both AMD and NVidia don't care about mid-to-low tier cards and only few people actually want to buy a 3070+ for their machines.
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  4. #184
    There's literally 1 RTX 3080 being sold in my whole country. the price? 2740 dollars, i fucking love living in Latam

  5. #185
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    The Intel DG2 is supposedly competitive with a 3070 - which is a good sweet spot, if prices are good and performance are actually the ones of a 3070.

    The ones reviewed around is a low tier "i cannot get anything better that works" kind of card. WHich actually is still a good market - given now both AMD and NVidia don't care about mid-to-low tier cards and only few people actually want to buy a 3070+ for their machines.
    Having the equivalent of a 3070 available from Intel if drivers are stable and solid would be a good segment to release a product in indeed as both AMD and Nvidia seems to be set on producing more and more higher end cards that simply cost too much for what they offer. I do not know what happened that some people consider paying over 1K euros and even more for a GFX for just gaming to be considered normal, even if you have money to spend it seems like a large waste for the minor gain you get out of it, especially considering at the frequency they are releasing cards nowadays.

    Using my 1060 GTX and Doom eternal runs fine and it looks good also, i think people greatly underestimate how well mid-range cards run games in general.

    Let us hope Intel can deliver, so that both team red and green have to face an extra competitor.
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  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    The Intel DG2 is supposedly competitive with a 3070...
    Looking at the DG1, wich has the performance of a GT1030, and isn't even compatable with all mobo's, i find this stament suspicious for the time being, we will see, but i'm afraid no one on the AMD plataform will actually be able to test the DG2.


  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    Looking at the DG1, wich has the performance of a GT1030, and isn't even compatable with all mobo's, i find this stament suspicious for the time being, we will see, but i'm afraid no one on the AMD plataform will actually be able to test the DG2.
    It's just what they're saying. Here's an image recapping the info.


    DG2 is a serie of cards, and the top tier should be around a 3070ti. DG1 is a model specifically made for OEMs and prebuilt systems to give them a discrete card that doesn't require additional power.

    I'm pretty sure first serie won't be good. Especially as you said due to compatibility/drivers. But if the performance proves to be good enough, Intel may have the chance to snatch the low and mid tier market that both AMD and NVidia are neglecting since they cards are more and more expensive every year.
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  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Chances are most people who would win this will just resell it at scalper prices
    Oh, probably.. But that beats the scalper bots buying up all of them

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    The Intel DG2 is supposedly competitive with a 3070 - which is a good sweet spot, if prices are good and performance are actually the ones of a 3070.

    The ones reviewed around is a low tier "i cannot get anything better that works" kind of card. WHich actually is still a good market - given now both AMD and NVidia don't care about mid-to-low tier cards and only few people actually want to buy a 3070+ for their machines.
    More specifically, its basically just the new Xe iGPU from the 11th gen chips on its own PCB and with its own RAM. Its meant for the same market that the GT 730 or GT 1030 are aimed at - people who need more monitors or who just need a GPU to make a rig work (like anyone who wants to build an AMD office rig right now given the dearth of good APUs currently).

    The DG2 is actually supposed to be a “real” GPU and if the leaks are correct and they can keep the price right, its a welcome addition to the market.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    The DG2 is actually supposed to be a “real” GPU and if the leaks are correct and they can keep the price right, its a welcome addition to the market.
    But judging by the current GPU they have out, they'll need to fix some driver problems before it's ready for prime time

  11. #191
    You could buy a decent early-mid 2000's BMW 318i for how much 3090 costs in my country. This is insane.

    Checked AMD CPUs too, I mean... you have to be in the upper middle class of income or take out a loan to get yourself a decent rig that will last 4-5 years in to the future for big released and still crank it to mid-high settings. Insanity.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    But judging by the current GPU they have out, they'll need to fix some driver problems before it's ready for prime time
    Oh, no doubt. Its still early days. IIRC didnt their former AMD hardware guy basically say “hardwares all done, software team has a lot of work to do, best of luck”?

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    Oh, no doubt. Its still early days. IIRC didnt their former AMD hardware guy basically say “hardwares all done, software team has a lot of work to do, best of luck”?
    Sounds likely, but haven't heard the quote

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    They seem fairly serious about it and are branching out more, time will tell if it works or not but i do not get the impression it is just there for show.
    Super computers and computing in general is moving toward much more parallelism, intel is squarely behind in this department compared with AMD and Nvidia and I am pretty sure this is what the intel GPU division is about. I would not expect the intel GPU to ever disappear from here on out.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  15. #195
    So can only go by the UK PoV.

    prices are steadily going down and I am noticing for a number of retailers that list newly stocked products at a lower price.

    Take for example a retailer CCL listed earlier today a gigabyte 3070ti for £699, still way above the msrp of the card but bare in mind just last week these were going for just under £1000.

    There is a gainward card for £750 on there too (fun fact picked that up) its been in stock for a few hours now.

    The gpu that most people seem to be overlooking is the AMD 6700XT, looking at benchmarks, it actually goes toe to toe on average with the 3070, not the 3060 as people seem to think.

    That gpu is £700 and give or take, that gpu as a whole has been seeing drops constantly as the days go by.

    Now the GPUs that still command high prices way above the msrp, all AMD 6800 and above, these are so rare its stupid.

    Nvidia 3080 and 3090 too.

    There appears to be a number of 3060s now but still above its msrp.

    Its worth checking at the moment, I think the bitcoin crackdown in china has defo had an effect but really that effect would take weeks to feel it, scalpers are likely not been able to shift gpus at all recently I am guessing so they arent being bought as fast, just actual buyers trying to buy now but the high prices still put them off.

    TLDR - the hope seems to be coming sooner then we are led to believe right now.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Thoriangun View Post
    The gpu that most people seem to be overlooking is the AMD 6700XT, looking at benchmarks, it actually goes toe to toe on average with the 3070, not the 3060 as people seem to think.

    Its worth checking at the moment, I think the bitcoin crackdown in china has defo had an effect but really that effect would take weeks to feel it, scalpers are likely not been able to shift gpus at all recently I am guessing so they arent being bought as fast, just actual buyers trying to buy now but the high prices still put them off.
    1. It doesnt really matter what AMD GPUs do in pricing. NVIDIAs market share for GPUs is at all time high and above PASCAL levels. NVIDIA pushed DLSS quite hard this year, RTX games made a huge impact for consumer GPU choice and CUDA is the defacto standard for anything that would require CPU or GPU performance. NVENC, RTX voice, NVIDIA Omniverse, the weekly AI/CUDA free stuff like NVIDIA Canvas killing the alternative GPU choice even more.

    AMD RDNA couldnt get market share with ultra cheap price/performance winning GPUs and RDNA2 went face first with TSMC's issues and is now dropping even faster with the DLSS push of the last months.

    FSR or not, NVIDIA got this GPU generation, went beyond PASCAL's numbers and sadly we can expect a huge price jump with next generation.

    2. Bitcoin is not a GPU currency. GPU mining with Ethereum was the most profitable and a big hotspot for Ethereum was/is in US. Scalping and the extreme difficulty in getting GPUs is clearly impacted by mining demand and getting a GPU in US is much harder as basicly everywhere else. First world countries have high electricity cost (environmental reasons) and are not hit by the mining boom as much.

    You clearly did not watch news right now, if you think the GPU prices will ge down in the next weeks/months.
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  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    1. It doesnt really matter what AMD GPUs do in pricing. NVIDIAs market share for GPUs is at all time high and above PASCAL levels. NVIDIA pushed DLSS quite hard this year, RTX games made a huge impact for consumer GPU choice and CUDA is the defacto standard for anything that would require CPU or GPU performance. NVENC, RTX voice, NVIDIA Omniverse, the weekly AI/CUDA free stuff like NVIDIA Canvas killing the alternative GPU choice even more.

    AMD RDNA couldnt get market share with ultra cheap price/performance winning GPUs and RDNA2 went face first with TSMC's issues and is now dropping even faster with the DLSS push of the last months.

    FSR or not, NVIDIA got this GPU generation, went beyond PASCAL's numbers and sadly we can expect a huge price jump with next generation.

    2. Bitcoin is not a GPU currency. GPU mining with Ethereum was the most profitable and a big hotspot for Ethereum was/is in US. Scalping and the extreme difficulty in getting GPUs is clearly impacted by mining demand and getting a GPU in US is much harder as basicly everywhere else. First world countries have high electricity cost (environmental reasons) and are not hit by the mining boom as much.

    You clearly did not watch news right now, if you think the GPU prices will ge down in the next weeks/months.
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  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    1. It doesnt really matter what AMD GPUs do in pricing. NVIDIAs market share for GPUs is at all time high and above PASCAL levels. NVIDIA pushed DLSS quite hard this year, RTX games made a huge impact for consumer GPU choice and CUDA is the defacto standard for anything that would require CPU or GPU performance. NVENC, RTX voice, NVIDIA Omniverse, the weekly AI/CUDA free stuff like NVIDIA Canvas killing the alternative GPU choice even more.

    AMD RDNA couldnt get market share with ultra cheap price/performance winning GPUs and RDNA2 went face first with TSMC's issues and is now dropping even faster with the DLSS push of the last months.

    FSR or not, NVIDIA got this GPU generation, went beyond PASCAL's numbers and sadly we can expect a huge price jump with next generation.

    2. Bitcoin is not a GPU currency. GPU mining with Ethereum was the most profitable and a big hotspot for Ethereum was/is in US. Scalping and the extreme difficulty in getting GPUs is clearly impacted by mining demand and getting a GPU in US is much harder as basicly everywhere else. First world countries have high electricity cost (environmental reasons) and are not hit by the mining boom as much.

    You clearly did not watch news right now, if you think the GPU prices will ge down in the next weeks/months.
    So let me get this straight, you are telling me that people need to ignore those AMD cards because of Nvenc, RTX voice, omniverse and cuda?

    You are saying people that want a performance upgrade foremost to ignore that because they want to stream?

    I will give Nvenc is great for streaming and RTX voice only works well if using headset microphones - useless if using a proper audio solution.

    Your average gamer is not gonna care for cuda acceleration, so stop smoking that joint if you think they do.

    DLSS is only in a few games and quite frankly and true with FSR, still slow uptake, I don't care for either solution since I know how to set up my games in the options menu, but for those that don't want to spend time in the menu, well more options the better no?

    AMD technically has the crown for market domination if you take consoles into account, desktop yes Nvidia has the current win but you are really gonna say to someone, don't get this AMD GPU that is an obvious upgrade to your system to get it from 40 FPS to 90 or whatever because Nvidia has 80% market share?

    What people are mostly looking for is more performance and to be able to turn up the common eye candy settings since thats still most games coming out, even a lot of new titles coming out still don't have ray tracing or resolution scaling technology.

    I think you need to take a look at current news and window shop at retailers at the moment, I have and got a 3070ti cheaper then it was 2 weeks ago by a few hundred £$€s at retail.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Thoriangun View Post
    So let me get this straight, you are telling me that people need to ignore those AMD cards because of Nvenc, RTX voice, omniverse and cuda?

    You are saying people that want a performance upgrade foremost to ignore that because they want to stream?

    I will give Nvenc is great for streaming and RTX voice only works well if using headset microphones - useless if using a proper audio solution.
    The number of people using what you call a "proper audio solution" is microscopic compared to people using headset mics. So this is a compelling feature.

    Your average gamer is not gonna care for cuda acceleration, so stop smoking that joint if you think they do.

    DLSS is only in a few games and quite frankly and true with FSR, still slow uptake,
    Uhh... whut? Its now available as a simple drop in in any Unreal engine game, the same is coming for Unity, and its about to be added to idTECH (or already was when i wrote this IIRC).

    And more to point - while the "number" of games is "limited" - its the ones that people want to play. CoD, Battlefield, Cyberpunk, Outriders. (And in the case of CoD and Battlefield, its now engine-wide as older titles got it same day).

    I don't care for either solution since I know how to set up my games in the options menu, but for those that don't want to spend time in the menu, well more options the better no?
    Except that no amount of tinkering will get you the performance that DLSS gets you. None. Zero. Zilch. Nadda.

    AMD technically has the crown for market domination if you take consoles into account,
    So if you twist the stats to say what i want them to say, then they say what i want them to say. Lulz.

    desktop yes Nvidia has the current win but you are really gonna say to someone, don't get this AMD GPU that is an obvious upgrade to your system to get it from 40 FPS to 90 or whatever because Nvidia has 80% market share?
    No, im going to tell them that because the nVidia card has features that the AMD card does not, that are compelling features that AMD has no answer to. FSR is NOT DLSS. Its lossy AF. They have no RT cores or Tensor cores.

    nVidia makes a better product.

    Thats why id recommend nVidia.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    The number of people using what you call a "proper audio solution" is microscopic compared to people using headset mics. So this is a compelling feature.



    Uhh... whut? Its now available as a simple drop in in any Unreal engine game, the same is coming for Unity, and its about to be added to idTECH (or already was when i wrote this IIRC).

    And more to point - while the "number" of games is "limited" - its the ones that people want to play. CoD, Battlefield, Cyberpunk, Outriders. (And in the case of CoD and Battlefield, its now engine-wide as older titles got it same day).



    Except that no amount of tinkering will get you the performance that DLSS gets you. None. Zero. Zilch. Nadda.



    So if you twist the stats to say what i want them to say, then they say what i want them to say. Lulz.



    No, im going to tell them that because the nVidia card has features that the AMD card does not, that are compelling features that AMD has no answer to. FSR is NOT DLSS. Its lossy AF. They have no RT cores or Tensor cores.

    nVidia makes a better product.

    Thats why id recommend nVidia.

    First point we are in agreement then, exactly what I said, only useful for headset users, those with proper audio solutions its useless for, it needs to be specified that RTX voice simply makes the garbage mess that is headsets sound less garbage, it doesn't actually make them sound nice.

    2nd point I still stand by, games are still limited in number and still limited in release schedule for both, though I would argue FSR has better uptake looking at all of the studios taking part, so IMO since both vendors offer a solution to this, its moot really.

    You can tinker with many settings to get boosts, imo most people are terrible with what a lot of settings actually do, consider how many people in the WoW forums stuck render scale to max and wonder why they have low FPS, most people are idiots, lets not overlook this, but I am not against with the inclusions of these settings.

    Its not a twist now is it, saying Nvidia is dominating the market only applies to DIY desktop PCs, that makes it sound like AMD is non existent when its everywhere, more so now then ever with Samsung and Google soon to use them in their smartphones soon.

    Features vs Features is exactly how it should work, but only price to price but also what people actually use, if people will never stream then many of its features are not selling points, but I would actually recommend Nvidia for people that want to stream unless you want to buy a 5900X then its well push it.

    What I was saying, on average the performance of the 6700XT actually matches the 3070 or close enough too, its a bit cheaper and is way more available for those that really want to upgrade and just want more performance in their games only, which is most people and their wallets.

    AMD has its own features too to be fair, its settings to actually inject from a driver level more detail such as RIS is actually pretty good since it actually works, I am more of a fan of features that inject fidelity into an image then reduce it and only grant performance, I am a pixel peeper so I will notice.

    Enhance sync is way better then Nvidias alternative granted thats still good of adaptive sync.

    This one I am unsure if Nvidia has at a driver level, last I checked it doesn't but colour blind adjustment at a driver levels to affect all games you play is solid to me - personal preference, I am well aware a number of games provide these but still a number don't, something AMD now provides.

    Looking at benchmarks though, which is what people go by, really go with what ever you can afford, the 6000 series from AMD is pretty good just the 6800 series and above is far more rare to get hold of here.

    I don't think DLSS/FSR are selling points when people should just learn how to adjust their settings.

    Ray tracing is nice looking for sure but both solutions provide it, Nvidia currently does it better but still not at acceptable performance so point is moot.

    I honestly think most people in these forums bring up points that are useless to most people as selling points and do a terrible job at giving advice to the average user.

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