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  1. #21
    people just find ways around current game build
    meta isn't decided, but controlled by developers, they make a change - balance shifts, people play available OP specs and combos
    Last edited by iosdeveloper; 2021-04-05 at 08:38 AM.
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  2. #22
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    The meta has nothing to do with anyone below 17’s and that includes me.

    I main an hpal, got ksm in jan, and stopped progressing because theirs no point beyond ksm.

    I literally get invited to almost every key I apply to and my io is total garbage (its 1335)

    Most people I see (75-90%) either have ksm at this point or have progressed past 16’s and are on 19/20+++

    If you’re having issues getting just 15s: it’s your issue. You need to gain io and ilvl like the rest of us.. or pay some dood from North Korea 250k a run to carry you.

    If people were complaining about 21+ I could say thats a meta issue: but this post has nothing to do with running 21s

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Still look like anecdote rather statistics.

    And it can happen with any nationalities.

    Once you hit decent rio, you won't have that kind of players (usually).
    We had a paladin yesterday who timed a +19 and died 7 times. Me and tank died zero times.
    Io matters right?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeEU View Post
    We had a paladin yesterday who timed a +19 and died 7 times. Me and tank died zero times.
    Io matters right?
    It does among others things and I added the word usually, reading issue much ?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    It does among others things and I added the word usually, reading issue much ?
    Anger management issues much?
    High io usually means high dps, but that's it, plays like your avg pleb the rest of the mechanics.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeEU View Post
    Anger management issues much?
    High io usually means high dps, but that's it, plays like your avg pleb the rest of the mechanics.
    Not my issue if you can't understand that you are wrong.

    Higher io means "USUALLY" better players.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Still look like anecdote rather statistics.

    And it can happen with any nationalities.

    Once you hit decent rio, you won't have that kind of players (usually).
    Of course it's anectodal evidence and it can happen with any nationalities. But when I see a repeated pattern over the course of a lot of M+ since Legion, I tend to be more cautious (the same way I tend to trust russian tanks because they are usually very solid).
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-04-05 at 11:08 AM.

  8. #28
    probably because since you are french, you are grouped more frequently with french, so you see more bad french players, but it doesn't mean frenchs are statistically worse.

    the only nationality i have a problem with are russians, not because they are worse of better or whatever because it's not the case, but because they tend to not speak enough english to communicate with the rest of europeans

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gourbaak View Post
    probably because since you are french, you are grouped more frequently with french, so you see more bad french players, but it doesn't mean frenchs are statistically worse.

    the only nationality i have a problem with are russians, not because they are worse of better or whatever because it's not the case, but because they tend to not speak enough english to communicate with the rest of europeans
    No. I only group up with english speaking groups, no matter their servers or their nationality. Close to zero issues with german, russian or scandinavian players for example.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-04-05 at 11:19 AM.

  10. #30
    People don't understand why meta is meta, don't understand the actual meaning of the word.

    For example: they see Fire Mage is meta, then wonder why Fire sucks in a regular 2-5 mob trash pulls in a dungeon if it's supposed to be "meta".
    But that's the thing, it means not regular play. So Fire is meta because it has uncapped very high aoe burst, therefore its value only comes into play if you pull 10 or so mobs around its cooldowns. Most other dps specs are otherwise better in regular group by group pull.

    This applies for any other portion of "meta". You can recognize bad players or at least players who do not know the principles of m+ progression, by those that seek "meta" at sub 20 keystones.

    For a group of competent players what matters is things like combat res, hero/BL/TW, stuns, magic/physical buffs, etc. A Warlock can aoe stun, cause a target to take more damage, combat res and brings very high damage. If we assume a good player skill there is no reason not to take Warlocks currently.

    As for this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    ... I join different guilds each time ...
    So you do actually chase the meta and hop guilds. You can't get a stable group of players that way, you can't progress keystones without pugging. So in fact you add to the problem you complain of.
    In my guild we've had the KSM months ago, didn't pug and didn't chase meta. The difference is that we play since Legion instead of rerolling and jumping all over the place.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeEU View Post
    We had a paladin yesterday who timed a +19 and died 7 times. Me and tank died zero times.
    Io matters right?
    It does. Statistically you will on average get better players than without raider.io

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffmeister View Post
    I play tank and got ksm in january, I now have 3 tanks capable of 15s

    Im not die hard meta, but some things are understandable. I usually join other people keys because thats quick and easy. Tank life.

    When I do make my own key I have a few criterias to make it as smooth as possible

    - moonkin with treants, if they dont bring treants they get booted. Dps is great and they gor cr
    - bloodlust somehow, no I dont want to use drums
    - a melee for kicks
    - cr (if i dont bring a moonkin, which is quite often)

    Noe what works here? For melee sure I can invite warriors and dhs, but dk got cr, amz and grip. Rogue bring shroud so I dont have to use those expencive pots

    Shaman healers are popular so that often gets an invite and it checks of the bloodlust, but then I need cr on the dps. Druid, lock or dk

    Mages and hunters make my life easier for kiting and both got bloodlust

    Healers both druid and shaman bring something else than heals, I dont mind healer monk, priest or pala as long as we have cr and bloodlust

    Now making a group while checking these boxes and picking the best that sign up, because of the shear numbers of players playing meta the group does end up looking quite similar when I pug
    What is "cr?" cause in the context I would assume you mean "battle res" except that would be "br" and you say "cr" four times.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    People don't understand why meta is meta, don't understand the actual meaning of the word.

    For example: they see Fire Mage is meta, then wonder why Fire sucks in a regular 2-5 mob trash pulls in a dungeon if it's supposed to be "meta".
    But that's the thing, it means not regular play. So Fire is meta because it has uncapped very high aoe burst, therefore its value only comes into play if you pull 10 or so mobs around its cooldowns. Most other dps specs are otherwise better in regular group by group pull.

    This applies for any other portion of "meta". You can recognize bad players or at least players who do not know the principles of m+ progression, by those that seek "meta" at sub 20 keystones.

    For a group of competent players what matters is things like combat res, hero/BL/TW, stuns, magic/physical buffs, etc. A Warlock can aoe stun, cause a target to take more damage, combat res and brings very high damage. If we assume a good player skill there is no reason not to take Warlocks currently.
    You aren't really up-to-date in the game are you?
    Fire sucks in regular 2-5 mobs xD yeah, in your dreams. I mean, if Fire sucks at that, what other specs are above in your situation?

    1 min combustion man! Nothing beats that, not on ST, not on Cleave, not on sustained aoe.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    Good explanation. You can also require a specific covenant to make some dungeons easier. And you might want to avoid taking too much melee on, well, a lot of weeks (quaking, sanguine, storming, spiteful).

    As a personal requirement: I make sure to dodge any group with a French leader, or refuse to invite any French player if I run my key. And I'm French.
    As a French player,I have to say....

    Yeah you're right,there's a reason why I fled from FR servers to EU servers

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    What is "cr?" cause in the context I would assume you mean "battle res" except that would be "br" and you say "cr" four times.
    Combat res I'd assume

  15. #35
    How something is made meta is easy... math. You can’t argue with numbers

  16. #36
    Honestly I think it's a lot simpler than most people think these days..

    People just watch streams or listen to those that do.. see or hear about people doing 20s and what characters they are using.. and the just copy it. Sure, these streams doing high end content did extensive testing and probably have some community connections combined with years of playing at a top level but no one much below them cares. These copy cats just get a couple bullet points, see what people are using, and fall in line. Then it ripples through the community and suddenly people trying to do between 1-15s think you have to have a DH tank, resto shaman, fire mage, balance druid, and outlaw rogue (you can mix in a couple dps classes as well). Which is totally not the case. A MW monk can heal all of them fine. A paladin tank can tank that easily enough. Any DPS that is competent works. But sadly morons don't think so. They are so worried about what is 1% better here or .5% better there that they miss the they are doing 40% worse themselves at what they are doing that will make the whole thing 20-30-40% easier than what class you are bringing. Silly but true. Sure, if you are pushing 20-25+ type keys suddenly that 1% really starts me matter because everyone is doing peak. But 15s and below.. just a laugh how much people worry about the micro when the macro is letting them down.
    Last edited by Low Hanging Fruit; 2021-04-05 at 12:55 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Still look like anecdote rather statistics.

    And it can happen with any nationalities.

    Once you hit decent rio, you won't have that kind of players (usually).
    dude everyone who plays on EU knows to avoid russian,french and those portuguese players all the notorious EU Servers are french and portuguese (Ragnaros, sanguini, hyjal with a mix of russian servers icant read the names of) and as some one who did 4k+ keys in a range of 500 io to 3.2k io i can confirm to dodge frenchs
    Last edited by Feral Druid ist Op; 2021-04-05 at 01:10 PM.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    What is "cr?" cause in the context I would assume you mean "battle res" except that would be "br" and you say "cr" four times.
    Combat rez aka Battle rez

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    You aren't really up-to-date in the game are you?
    Fire sucks in regular 2-5 mobs xD yeah, in your dreams. I mean, if Fire sucks at that, what other specs are above in your situation?

    1 min combustion man! Nothing beats that, not on ST, not on Cleave, not on sustained aoe.
    I usually destroy fire mage in raid or m+ and I am an Arcane mage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    dude everyone who plays on EU knows to avoid russian,french and those portuguese players all the notorious EU Servers are are frenchs and portuguese (Ragnaros, sanguini, hyjal with a mix of russian servers icant read the names of) and as some one who did 4k+ keys in a range of 500 io to 3.2k io i can confirm to dodge frenchs
    Not so sure about French people since I am one myself and I have 1k7 rio. But I guess I would try to dodge you, that's for sure.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    I usually destroy fire mage in raid or m+ and I am an Arcane mage.

    Not so sure about French people since I am one myself and I have 1k7 rio. But I guess I would try to dodge you, that's for sure.
    dont worrie with that io you would not even make it into my grps not even for no leaver 15s on my 200 ilvl alts ^^

    and for your arcane mage comment on your dog IO tabks dont know shit and puling 1-2 packs with a "dantos" route and a fire mage cant do dmg. I want to see a arcane mage to top my overall firemage dps in a 23+ key with my premade tank who knows pulls
    Last edited by Feral Druid ist Op; 2021-04-05 at 01:18 PM.
    I.O BFA Season 3


  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    dude everyone who plays on EU knows to avoid russian,french and those portuguese players all the notorious EU Servers are french and portuguese (Ragnaros, sanguini, hyjal with a mix of russian servers icant read the names of) and as some one who did 4k+ keys in a range of 500 io to 3.2k io i can confirm to dodge frenchs
    In the US we dodge rag and quelthalas lol.

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