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  1. #1

    How and when is the 'meta' decided?

    Season 4 of BFA, i decided to get KSM.
    I main a warlock, never play alts outside of needing them for acheivements.
    After several weeks of non stop declines and insta boots, I shelved my warlock and made a Demon Hunter, since that was what people wanted.

    I got into nearly every group, got decent people applying for my keys, got KSM.


    I tried again Season 1 SL, same result. No one wanted my lock, and relying on my own keys was just not pleasant.
    So I looked again, saw Mage and then Hunter, were the 2 big picks.
    Rolled a Hunter, got KSM.


    Ive been in groups run by warlocks, but never groups inviting warlocks. Funnily enough, every group I ran with a warlock lead, they were near top dps and performed fine as far as i could see.
    But, reality doesnt matter for everyone pre 15s. The groups that relied on metas mostly failed. The groups that checked IO or were 'premade' were what got the most success.


    I would love for Warlock to be a 'pick' for 'push' groups, but sadly its not a reality. I do however, enjoy 'mastering' a different class each season/xpac. it allows me to learn things I wouldnt, gives me another alt for the army for mount farming, and I join different guilds each time and find new friends.


    Anyway, my question is
    How are these metas decided and when?
    Is it something we know early into the PTR?
    Do people just run sims?
    Is it figured out over time by actual playing/testing?
    Is there any point speculating yet?

  2. #2
    Probably a combination of things.

    PTR/Beta commentary from youtubers/streamers
    RIO rankings
    and MDI of course.

  3. #3
    We will know meta few weeks before patch hits. Some specs might get completely fked during the last weeks of beta, but it is very likely that the strong specs in PTR will be strong on live.

    I got KSM in second week of m+ in SL with the class I chose during beta.

    Also the pro meta is different from every other meta, because only pros can do 30 mob pull and aoe them down with a mage. Pug meta is different, but sadly tards dont always get it.
    Last edited by facefist; 2021-04-04 at 07:40 AM.

  4. #4
    I thought this was an obvious answer, but most of my friends got a new perspective from this.

    A class/spec can do a few things like: interrupts, silence, knockback, lock gateway, various damage profiles, existent/non-existent ramp-up, synergies between talents, trinkets, borrowed power, etc-etc.

    Your chosen CONTENT decides how many of those tools are NEEDED for a bare minimum. A +15 needs a lot more tools to succeed than a +2, be it higher dps (for given ilvl/stats), longer stuns, slows, low-cd interrupts, you name it.

    When a meta is decided?
    When the community "adds up" these tools, we figured it out that the META specs have WAY MORE tools at their disposal than non-meta.
    Go look at warcraftlogs, there are only a handful of specs that dominate. And they DO have a lot more. Just go and look at their skills/talents/etc and you can easily find out WHY.

    I started this expansion as a warlock, a necrolord just for fun. I even tried Soul Fire because it simmed higher, and when I saw a 20k crit at the beginning of the expansion, I felt happy, looked on the meter and.. yeah.. a freakin starsurge crit more than that and it doesn't have a freakin 3.5 sec cast time.

    Tho I saw Kalamazi run a +18 with 3 warlocks and win.
    But this means only one thing: the instances were nerfed, tanks were buffed, and overgearing kicked in, NOT that warlock is meta!


    Another interpretation: META only forms for hard content. And M+ in SL were absolutely BRUTAL at the normal gearing curve.

    This is the FIRST tier when an m0 geared character does 1/4 the dps of a 226 geared. This ratio were never this extreme!
    The insane main stat/stamina scaling is killing this game.

  5. #5
    It's much more sinister than you think. Every season powerful people meet up, I'm talking youtubers, Blizzard suits, billionaires, philanthropists, in a high security chateau in the mountains of Europe, and they pick specs for the next meta, conspiring to produce videos and guides promulgating this meta and shutting down discussion of any counter-meta. They are so powerful they can have blizzard accounts DELETED just for talking about this. They are also behind raider IO which they pretend is about rating M+ performance but is actually a tool to make players gay. It gets even crazier though, what if I told you that the highest rio players don't even exist and they are just actors? This goes really deep and I can't share any more here but needless to say the meta isn't what you think it is.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by intenz View Post
    It's much more sinister than you think. Every season powerful people meet up, I'm talking youtubers, Blizzard suits, billionaires, philanthropists, in a high security chateau in the mountains of Europe, and they pick specs for the next meta, conspiring to produce videos and guides promulgating this meta and shutting down discussion of any counter-meta. They are so powerful they can have blizzard accounts DELETED just for talking about this. They are also behind raider IO which they pretend is about rating M+ performance but is actually a tool to make players gay. It gets even crazier though, what if I told you that the highest rio players don't even exist and they are just actors? This goes really deep and I can't share any more here but needless to say the meta isn't what you think it is.

    Can confirm this. My sister's husband's twice-removed cousin's best friend who also works at the Chipotle next to Bobby Kotick's castle told me this and now he is missing.

  7. #7
    its all about which class can do the best with the combo of seasonal affix and dungeon design, thats simple burst classes for pride mage combust/boomkin convoke and hunter for aoe deleting packs on 2 mins cd, this changes on high keys you swap the hunter for a rogue @ 20+ and again all can change in 1 and half weeks after we see the new affix and balance changes on the ptr

    but all the thnigs i just wirted up should not mater to you or your awg +15 pug dogs you can 3 man time +15 keys

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    Anyway, my question is
    How are these metas decided and when?
    Is it something we know early into the PTR?
    Do people just run sims?
    Is it figured out over time by actual playing/testing?
    Is there any point speculating yet?
    There are indications from the latest PTR/Beta but nothing is accurate. Averagely by the second week when people experience the seasonal affix/scaling of Blizzard fuck up, then decisions are made.

    At SL Season 1 as example, a few mobs where completely untested scaling wise, no wonder they cant be tanked, who can kite while doing initial burst, and dot threat? DH, dh is the meta tank, combined with the DPS they provide which is always if not the number 1 factor, very close to number 1

    Look at BFA season 2, which tank just got its AoE damage scaled up, and this affix is literally bursting down mobs? Warrior, Warrior is the meta tank!

    DPS is pretty much the same, what is the affix this season, how can it be countered, etc etc, and some classes are always passively broken (Fire mage cough) so they are defaulted no matter what.

    All this is irrelevant either way, meta bullshit is for the 0.01% to reroll, anyone else doing that shizzle just needs to get friends, get their KSM and log out to play something else.
    Last edited by potis; 2021-04-04 at 04:36 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by intenz View Post
    It's much more sinister than you think. Every season powerful people meet up, I'm talking youtubers, Blizzard suits, billionaires, philanthropists, in a high security chateau in the mountains of Europe, and they pick specs for the next meta, conspiring to produce videos and guides promulgating this meta and shutting down discussion of any counter-meta. They are so powerful they can have blizzard accounts DELETED just for talking about this. They are also behind raider IO which they pretend is about rating M+ performance but is actually a tool to make players gay. It gets even crazier though, what if I told you that the highest rio players don't even exist and they are just actors? This goes really deep and I can't share any more here but needless to say the meta isn't what you think it is.
    Can confirm. Someone has figured out, that Nagura is actually doing +5 instead of +17 because she took less damage in the dungeon than a person who exposed her on the same level. I don't know how math works, but it's enough for me to believe it. Also that guy is missing now.
    Even more! - if you don't use store mounts on daily basis, you will get bad loot in vault - mostly cloaks or items you already have and all your groups which you make will only have AI who plays meta classes signing up with forged rio score who will stand in all shit and die on every boss.
    Every wow token actually fund China btw. Don't let them trick you!

  10. #10
    I play tank and got ksm in january, I now have 3 tanks capable of 15s

    Im not die hard meta, but some things are understandable. I usually join other people keys because thats quick and easy. Tank life.

    When I do make my own key I have a few criterias to make it as smooth as possible

    - moonkin with treants, if they dont bring treants they get booted. Dps is great and they gor cr
    - bloodlust somehow, no I dont want to use drums
    - a melee for kicks
    - cr (if i dont bring a moonkin, which is quite often)

    Noe what works here? For melee sure I can invite warriors and dhs, but dk got cr, amz and grip. Rogue bring shroud so I dont have to use those expencive pots

    Shaman healers are popular so that often gets an invite and it checks of the bloodlust, but then I need cr on the dps. Druid, lock or dk

    Mages and hunters make my life easier for kiting and both got bloodlust

    Healers both druid and shaman bring something else than heals, I dont mind healer monk, priest or pala as long as we have cr and bloodlust

    Now making a group while checking these boxes and picking the best that sign up, because of the shear numbers of players playing meta the group does end up looking quite similar when I pug

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by intenz View Post
    It's much more sinister than you think. Every season powerful people meet up, I'm talking youtubers, Blizzard suits, billionaires, philanthropists, in a high security chateau in the mountains of Europe, and they pick specs for the next meta, conspiring to produce videos and guides promulgating this meta and shutting down discussion of any counter-meta. They are so powerful they can have blizzard accounts DELETED just for talking about this. They are also behind raider IO which they pretend is about rating M+ performance but is actually a tool to make players gay. It gets even crazier though, what if I told you that the highest rio players don't even exist and they are just actors? This goes really deep and I can't share any more here but needless to say the meta isn't what you think it is.
    I accept this as the only reasonable explanation. Do you have any spare QAnon T-shirts by chance?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffmeister View Post
    snip
    Good explanation. You can also require a specific covenant to make some dungeons easier. And you might want to avoid taking too much melee on, well, a lot of weeks (quaking, sanguine, storming, spiteful).

    As a personal requirement: I make sure to dodge any group with a French leader, or refuse to invite any French player if I run my key. And I'm French.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-04-04 at 10:21 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by intenz View Post
    It's much more sinister than you think. Every season powerful people meet up, I'm talking youtubers, Blizzard suits, billionaires, philanthropists, in a high security chateau in the mountains of Europe, and they pick specs for the next meta, conspiring to produce videos and guides promulgating this meta and shutting down discussion of any counter-meta. They are so powerful they can have blizzard accounts DELETED just for talking about this. They are also behind raider IO which they pretend is about rating M+ performance but is actually a tool to make players gay. It gets even crazier though, what if I told you that the highest rio players don't even exist and they are just actors? This goes really deep and I can't share any more here but needless to say the meta isn't what you think it is.
    Suddenly this all makes sense!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    Good explanation. You can also require a specific covenant to make some dungeons easier. And you might want to avoid taking too much melee on, well, a lot of weeks (quaking, sanguine, storming, spiteful).

    As a personal requirement: I make sure to dodge any group with a French leader, or refuse to invite any French player if I run my key. And I'm French.
    And Why is that ? You refuse to let your countrymen see how bad you are ? That is very selfless from you.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    And Why is that ? You refuse to let your countrymen see how bad you are ? That is very selfless from you.
    Totally the reason yes

    More precisely: the vast majority of the French puggers are terrible at the game (really terrible) and have a dogshit attitude. My three last keys have been ruined by a french player, and those are the most recent examples only. Every time I think "oh, it can't be that bad", it fails inevitably. One said "fuck you guys" and instaleft when a dps said to the tank "pull big, I have cds", pulled two more mobs than what the tank planned at the start of HoA. Another one died on the very first pull on HoA even though I used every healing cd to sustain him, typed "wtf no soothe" (we didn't have an enrage dispel in the group) and left. The third one used Hex to skip the third pack on Mists although we had a DH in the group, forgot to reapply it, made us wipe. Then he proceeded to die twice on the second boss on Fortified.

  16. #16
    When the “I CBA”ers get ahold of something that works exceedingly well and is reliable.

  17. #17
    I see plenty of warlocks and even warriors.
    It's just not the first pick for most groups.

    To me there is no meta.
    You want bl. You want 2 ranges.
    You want some decurse, dispels for some dungeons.

    Oh and you want a repair bot for SD. I had like 10 runs where people had to repair at the end. Teleported out and we had to wait 10 min!

    Unless you run 20+ it doesn't matter who you bring.

    Gear is inflated now. Everyone has 220+ now. Why should groups pick you?

    Even my 219 hunter gets declined alot for the weekly.
    Probably because higher hunters are applying with higher io and gear.
    Last edited by GnomeEU; 2021-04-05 at 07:51 AM.

  18. #18
    The "meta" is not something that is set in stone, as you could see in the current mdi the tyranical meta switched from disc to holy paladin/shadow for the insane healer damage mid tournament - one group started it and then the others (had to) adept.
    So meta is just what is considered best for the current situation with the available knowledge, and it can change in the blink of an eye.

  19. #19
    The meta is nonsense anyway.
    A healer that is specced full dps will fail in most random runs.
    The avg group takes more dmg in a +10 than in a +20.

    A healer can't just go dps when the tank requires 90% of all globals and the hunter in the fire the rest. For the rogue there were no globals left so he died.

    My group will be happy when I stop healing and throw 20k hammers instead lol. You'll be booted with, omg heal afk? Quicker than you can say, you should have interrupted that.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    Totally the reason yes

    More precisely: the vast majority of the French puggers are terrible at the game (really terrible) and have a dogshit attitude. My three last keys have been ruined by a french player, and those are the most recent examples only. Every time I think "oh, it can't be that bad", it fails inevitably. One said "fuck you guys" and instaleft when a dps said to the tank "pull big, I have cds", pulled two more mobs than what the tank planned at the start of HoA. Another one died on the very first pull on HoA even though I used every healing cd to sustain him, typed "wtf no soothe" (we didn't have an enrage dispel in the group) and left. The third one used Hex to skip the third pack on Mists although we had a DH in the group, forgot to reapply it, made us wipe. Then he proceeded to die twice on the second boss on Fortified.
    Still look like anecdote rather statistics.

    And it can happen with any nationalities.

    Once you hit decent rio, you won't have that kind of players (usually).

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