1. #2381
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Nope, I didn’t forget. Maybe you should have answered the first 12 times it was asked? Sure, explain your long term goals. Who pays taxes? Who owns the infrastructure? Who owns the government? How are these long term goals not corporatist? I’ll go on, but if you can’t answer these simple questions, you’ve shown a complete inability to do so, then there’s not much point.
    My long-term goals are the lowering of taxes, reducing of government spending, increase of individual liberty, and to justify how any government action is actually needed, before it's put into law. I understand that I will never have complete control of a government, and don't want complete control.

    If you're talking about some utopia, then I have stated I favor voluntary governance where people choose which government they want to be a part of, and it's not based on land. That way, it would be entirely up to the people within that government, so the responsibility and the outcome relies entirely on them.

  2. #2382
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    My long-term goals are the lowering of taxes, reducing of government spending, increase of individual liberty, and to justify how any government action is actually needed, before it's put into law. I understand that I will never have complete control of a government, and don't want complete control.

    If you're talking about some utopia, then I have stated I favor voluntary governance where people choose which government they want to be a part of, and it's not based on land. That way, it would be entirely up to the people within that government, so the responsibility and the outcome relies entirely on them.
    All while corporations have unlimited financial influence over every government as well as owning the infrastructure. There’s a word for that.

  3. #2383
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    All while corporations have unlimited financial influence over every government as well as owning the infrastructure. There’s a word for that.
    You could literally have your own socialistic government...

    There is a term for that, voluntary government.

  4. #2384
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You could literally have your own socialistic government...

    There is a term for that, voluntary government.
    There’s no such thing as voluntary government. If there were when you come to say I couldn’t murder that guy then I just shrug and say, “I live in a country where it’s legal, it’s called my house.”

  5. #2385
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    There’s no such thing as voluntary government. If there were when you come to say I couldn’t murder that guy then I just shrug and say, “I live in a country where it’s legal, it’s called my house.”
    You asked.

    And no, those governments would have means in which to deal with those who harmed their citizens.

  6. #2386
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You asked.

    And no, those governments would have means in which to deal with those who harmed their citizens.
    So it’s NOT voluntary then. Make up your mind.

  7. #2387
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, you agree that Trump is completely innocent of the things he's accused of doing, since he has been charged with no crimes? I want to be sure that your stance on such issues is consistent. Otherwise, you're being willfully ignorant.

    How is it misinformation to state that the mayor went on television to swear the water was safe, months after the EPA had tested higher levels of lead in the water?

    How is it misinformation to state that the local council voted to change the water supplier in the first place, because it was cheaper?

    How is it misinformation to state that no corrosion inhibitors were added to the new water?

    How is it misinformation to state that they voted to keep the cheaper water, even after two water boilings and GM sopped its usage?
    He has numerous investigations against him in process never mind the obstruction investigation which was squelched even though it said he did it.

    All other points are related to misinformation from Snyder, the Emergency Managers and State Agencies which is why many of them are being charged. If they were gonna charge local officials, it would've already happened.

  8. #2388
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    So it’s NOT voluntary then. Make up your mind.
    I did, and I answered your question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    He has numerous investigations against him in process never mind the obstruction investigation which was squelched even though it said he did it.

    All other points are related to misinformation from Snyder, the Emergency Managers and State Agencies which is why many of them are being charged. If they were gonna charge local officials, it would've already happened.
    That's your metric you used.

    If you are going to judge culpability based on indictment, then at least have the decency to be consistent.

    As of now, you are saying Trump is every bit as innocent as as the city leaders of Flint, correct?

  9. #2389
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I did, and I answered your question.
    With a contradiction. If these governments can use their means to punish me for something I don’t even consider harm then it’s not voluntary.

  10. #2390
    Machismo: The government is corrupt!!!!!
    Everyone Else: The government is corrupt because wealthy corporations pay for the politicians. Which is why we need to regulate the corporations more.
    Machismo: No there's too many rules!!!!!!!
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  11. #2391
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    With a contradiction. If these governments can use their means to punish me for something I don’t even consider harm then it’s not voluntary.
    Not really, wars and hostile actions can still be taken between governments. That hasn't changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Machismo: The government is corrupt!!!!!
    Everyone Else: The government is corrupt because wealthy corporations pay for the politicians. Which is why we need to regulate the corporations more.
    Machismo: No there's too many rules!!!!!!!
    And yet, I'm the only one who opposed when the corporation was trying to control government.

    I do enjoy the irony.

    I simply accept that fact that people are just as capable of pushing corrupt government, as corporations are. How would keeping corporations out of government stop all the abortion restrictions that have been pushed, and are going to continue being pushed?

  12. #2392
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Not really, wars and hostile actions can still be taken between governments. That hasn't changed.

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    And yet, I'm the only one who opposed when the corporation was trying to control government.

    I do enjoy the irony.

    I simply accept that fact that people are just as capable of pushing corrupt government, as corporations are. How would keeping corporations out of government stop all the abortion restrictions that have been pushed, and are going to continue being pushed?
    So you are advocating for the total devolution of society. Brilliant. Who decides property rights?

  13. #2393
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    So you are advocating for the total devolution of society. Brilliant. Who decides property rights?
    Nope, try again.

  14. #2394
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Nope, try again.
    You just said you want a bunch of tiny voluntary countries that go to war every time one of their citizens is harmed.

  15. #2395
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    And yet, I'm the only one who opposed when the corporation was trying to control government.

    I do enjoy the irony.

    I simply accept that fact that people are just as capable of pushing corrupt government, as corporations are. How would keeping corporations out of government stop all the abortion restrictions that have been pushed, and are going to continue being pushed?
    What’s the difference between people and a corporation? In particular, when talking about voice?

    Also, can you explain the liability of people when incorporating and just people? Is there a way, I can dissolve my liability, while remaining an individual?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  16. #2396
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    You just said you want a bunch of tiny voluntary countries that go to war every time one of their citizens is harmed.
    You do realize that we solve issues like this all the time, right?

    Now, since you seem to be stuck in a loop, I'll move on.

    Do you care to address all the other solutions I offered for short-term issues, or are you going to keep ignoring them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    What’s the difference between people and a corporation? In particular, when talking about voice?

    Also, can you explain the liability of people when incorporating and just people? Is there a way, I can dissolve my liability, while remaining an individual?
    Ask them, they are the ones trying to make the distinction.

  17. #2397
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    So you are advocating for the total devolution of society. Brilliant. Who decides property rights?
    Corporations are people, my friend. It’s a long standing libertarian slogan, initiated by the hallmark of libertarians, Mitt Romney...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Ask them, they are the ones trying to make the distinction.
    The reason I used bold, is because you distinguished between the two... but, can I take this answer as “none”? Nothing you have said has explained an individual’s ability to dissolve liability.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  18. #2398
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    And yet, I'm the only one who opposed when the corporation was trying to control government.

    I do enjoy the irony.

    I simply accept that fact that people are just as capable of pushing corrupt government, as corporations are. How would keeping corporations out of government stop all the abortion restrictions that have been pushed, and are going to continue being pushed?
    No you aren't. You want them too. That's why you called a government run by the people, facist, authoritarian and socialist. You literally just said you were against a corporate run government then turn around and defend it two sentences later.

    Our government is set up to prevent power grabs by people. It is not however, set up to prevent power grabs by the wealthy corporations. Also, abortion is still legal. Trying to get laws enacted and then those laws not being enacted, like abortion banning, means the system is working as intended, and yet you bitch.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  19. #2399
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Corporations are people, my friend. It’s a long standing libertarian slogan, initiated by the hallmark of libertarians, Mitt Romney...

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    The reason I used bold, is because you distinguished between the two... but, can I take this answer as “none”? Nothing you have said has explained an individual’s ability to dissolve liability.
    Nope, I'm simply going to ignore your leading questions., If you want to push a narrative, then just push it with a statement.

  20. #2400
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You do realize that we solve issues like this all the time, right?

    Now, since you seem to be stuck in a loop, I'll move on.

    Do you care to address all the other solutions I offered for short-term issues, or are you going to keep ignoring them?

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    Ask them, they are the ones trying to make the distinction.
    Already did long ago. Care to answer who decides property rights?

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