1. #2481
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Everything, but mostly anything that’s not cops or politicians. Everything else should be privatized. Yes, those are his actual stated options. Oh, and government is voluntary, but they can force you to submit to another government’s laws.
    Oh, right. The privatization angle. I actually managed to totally forget that. Silly me. And if memory serves, cops would also be privatized. Because... consistency? Fuck it, if it even works. Crowbar an ideology in, regardless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  2. #2482
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Oh, right. The privatization angle. I actually managed to totally forget that. Silly me. And if memory serves, cops would also be privatized. Because... consistency? Fuck it, if it even works. Crowbar an ideology in, regardless.
    They’d have to be with all the tolls to get to your call.

    @Machismo I didn’t read it, but I assume it’s more lies. You want to expand corporatist influence while I want to remove it. You openly admit as much. You’d “oppose” them getting their way, but you’d support them having the ability to do so in the face of your opposition. You’ve gotten numerous chances to refute the claim and just keep trying to claim I’m a corporatist because I oppose restricting access to healthcare and believe our policing is systemically racist. At least one of which you support openly.
    Last edited by Vegas82; 2021-04-16 at 04:14 PM.

  3. #2483
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I have stated a simple freeze on spending increases, so that every department is able to receive the exact same as they did the previous year.
    Which ignores inflation and population growth.

    Meaning your proposal directly leads to those struggling in poverty facing increased hardship and suffering as the programs that they rely on get choked with effectively reduced funding, year after year.

    Which is why your proposal gets rejected. It is empty and willfully ignorant, relying on simplicity in place of actual understanding. It's not really any different than the nuts who propose a flat tax; same net result, same reliance on an overly-simplistic bit of rhetoric that simply does not produce the outcomes they suggest.

  4. #2484
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, you have no evidence for your claims, and you simply want to ignore the timeline...
    The timeline clearly shows the appointment of Snyder’s Emergency Managers.

    If I wanted to make a baseless claim it would be something like:
    Snyder and the Michigan Legislature would’ve just past legislation to override any of Flint’s actions. Like any GOP controlled state does to any municipality that passes a law they don’t like. I don’t have any proof that they had this planned but in my opinion it’s a much more reasonable assumption than anything you’ve said in the past 120 pages.

  5. #2485
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Which ignores inflation and population growth.

    Meaning your proposal directly leads to those struggling in poverty facing increased hardship and suffering as the programs that they rely on get choked with effectively reduced funding, year after year.

    Which is why your proposal gets rejected. It is empty and willfully ignorant, relying on simplicity in place of actual understanding. It's not really any different than the nuts who propose a flat tax; same net result, same reliance on an overly-simplistic bit of rhetoric that simply does not produce the outcomes they suggest.
    Yeah, but government would be voluntary. Wtf the means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The timeline clearly shows the appointment of Snyder’s Emergency Managers.

    If I wanted to make a baseless claim it would be something like:
    Snyder and the Michigan Legislature would’ve just past legislation to override any of Flint’s actions. Like any GOP controlled state does to any municipality that passes a law they don’t like. I don’t have any proof that they had this planned but in my opinion it’s a much more reasonable assumption than anything you’ve said in the past 120 pages.
    Those regulations are harming the ability of lead pipe companies to own infrastructure.

  6. #2486
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yeah, but government would be voluntary. Wtf the means.
    I mean, I just ignore that. It's a direct hypocrisy. There cannot be such a thing as a "voluntary government", because "government" necessitates a system of laws, and laws cannot exist if you can just opt out of them.

  7. #2487
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I mean, I just ignore that. It's a direct hypocrisy. There cannot be such a thing as a "voluntary government", because "government" necessitates a system of laws, and laws cannot exist if you can just opt out of them.
    Nope, he said it’d be voluntary even though they can just come kill me if I don’t comply. Yes, he literally brought up war if I don’t “voluntarily” submit to his “voluntary government’s” authority.

  8. #2488
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Nope, he said it’d be voluntary even though they can just come kill me if I don’t comply. Yes, he literally brought up war if I don’t “voluntarily” submit to his “voluntary government’s” authority.
    So, not "voluntary" at all, just regular government just like any other.

  9. #2489
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    No, he said all...
    Cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Giving people government jobs just for the sake of having government jobs... is pointless welfare. This is especially the case of productivity doesn't increase.
    I was not talking about government jobs. It's as if absolutely everything you're talking about is its very own bubble that has no influence on other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    As for regulation, you mean regulation like abortion restrictions?
    Are you saying regulation on abortion restrictions makes the government more efficient?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You asked.

    And no, those governments would have means in which to deal with those who harmed their citizens.
    They'd have jurisdiction over citizens from other governments?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  10. #2490
    Observer Floofi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Oh, right. The privatization angle. I actually managed to totally forget that. Silly me. And if memory serves, cops would also be privatized. Because... consistency? Fuck it, if it even works. Crowbar an ideology in, regardless.
    Man, think of all the freedom and liberty we can have with a completely deregulated and privatized DMV! Companies could sell licenses for like $20, so if little 8 year old Timmy wants to go the store and buy some Pokemon cards, he could take his dad's lifted Ford F-150 Super-duty out for a spin, perfectly legal. Who cares if he can't reach the pedals or barely see over the steering wheel, think of all the freedom he has!

    /s

  11. #2491
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floofi View Post
    Man, think of all the freedom and liberty we can have with a completely deregulated and privatized DMV! Companies could sell licenses for like $20, so if little 8 year old Timmy wants to go the store and buy some Pokemon cards, he could take his dad's lifted Ford F-150 Super-duty out for a spin, perfectly legal. Who cares if he can't reach the pedals or barely see over the steering wheel, think of all the freedom he has!
    Here is a song about it:

    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  12. #2492
    Herald of the Titans bladeXcrasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yeah, but government would be voluntary. Wtf the means.
    Wait, so he is an anarchist?

  13. #2493
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    They’d have to be with all the tolls to get to your call.

    @Machismo I didn’t read it, but I assume it’s more lies. You want to expand corporatist influence while I want to remove it. You openly admit as much. You’d “oppose” them getting their way, but you’d support them having the ability to do so in the face of your opposition. You’ve gotten numerous chances to refute the claim and just keep trying to claim I’m a corporatist because I oppose restricting access to healthcare and believe our policing is systemically racist. At least one of which you support openly.
    You want to take away BLM and Planned parenthood's freedom to lobby, I do not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Which ignores inflation and population growth.

    Meaning your proposal directly leads to those struggling in poverty facing increased hardship and suffering as the programs that they rely on get choked with effectively reduced funding, year after year.

    Which is why your proposal gets rejected. It is empty and willfully ignorant, relying on simplicity in place of actual understanding. It's not really any different than the nuts who propose a flat tax; same net result, same reliance on an overly-simplistic bit of rhetoric that simply does not produce the outcomes they suggest.
    It's not ignoring that at all, it's literally counting on it.

    Instead, people will just continue spending the money of people who aren't even alive to stop it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The timeline clearly shows the appointment of Snyder’s Emergency Managers.

    If I wanted to make a baseless claim it would be something like:
    Snyder and the Michigan Legislature would’ve just past legislation to override any of Flint’s actions. Like any GOP controlled state does to any municipality that passes a law they don’t like. I don’t have any proof that they had this planned but in my opinion it’s a much more reasonable assumption than anything you’ve said in the past 120 pages.
    Yep, but you made specific claims, and I have yet to see any evidence for your claims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Cool.



    I was not talking about government jobs. It's as if absolutely everything you're talking about is its very own bubble that has no influence on other things.



    Are you saying regulation on abortion restrictions makes the government more efficient?

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    They'd have jurisdiction over citizens from other governments?
    Nope, I'm not saying that.

    Welcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bladeXcrasher View Post
    Wait, so he is an anarchist?
    Nope, try again.

  14. #2494
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's not ignoring that at all, it's literally counting on it.

    Instead, people will just continue spending the money of people who aren't even alive to stop it.
    Counting on the reduction of support levels for those already struggling.

    Yes, I know you're counting on that. I'm rejecting it because it's inhumanely misanthropic for the sake of you personally saving a bit of money.

  15. #2495
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Counting on the reduction of support levels for those already struggling.

    Yes, I know you're counting on that. I'm rejecting it because it's inhumanely misanthropic for the sake of you personally saving a bit of money.
    Well, since the stated goal is to balance a budget, that's simply my solution.

    I have no doubt that you don't support it, because you don't give a shit about spending other people's money to pay for everything you want.

  16. #2496
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You want to take away BLM and Planned parenthood's freedom to lobby, I do not.
    Yes, you do... You full well know that neither Planned Parenthood nor BLM can compete with corporate lobbying. The reason lobbying exists, is because a lot of people will vote in support of BLM and Planned Parenthood, than corporate interest. You are supporting the fact that instead of a vote, planned parenthood and BLM are forced to compete via lobbying.

    I note your virtue signaling... though... I support BLM and planned parenthood not needing to waste their money on lobbying, to fight corporate interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I have no doubt that you don't support it, because you don't give a shit about spending other people's money to pay for everything you want.
    You only care about other people’s money, as a virtue signal. You don’t give a shit that an individual cannot compete with lobbying...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  17. #2497
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Yes, you do... You full well know that neither Planned Parenthood nor BLM can compete with corporate lobbying. The reason lobbying exists, is because a lot of people will vote in support of BLM and Planned Parenthood, than corporate interest. You are supporting the fact that instead of a vote, planned parenthood and BLM are forced to compete via lobbying.

    I note your virtue signaling... though... I support BLM and planned parenthood not needing to waste their money on lobbying, to fight corporate interest.

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    You only care about other people’s money, as a virtue signal. You don’t give a shit that an individual cannot compete with lobbying...
    Nope, I'm the one supporting their freedom to lobby, and I've made that very clear.

    They are not forced to do anything, they want a political agenda, and I support their First Amendment rights.

    Plenty of individuals compete with lobbyists... but I guess that doesn't really fit your narrative. Are you saying nobody can compete with BLM and their lobbying?

  18. #2498
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Well, since the stated goal is to balance a budget, that's simply my solution.
    Putting "balancing the budget" ahead of people's suffering is entirely the point I was making.

    I have no doubt that you don't support it, because you don't give a shit about spending other people's money to pay for everything you want.
    This is an empty falsehood.

    It isn't "other people's money". It's the government's money. I know it's convenient to try and rewrite simple facts when they don't fit your rhetoric, but that's not an honest argument.

    It flatly, objectively, is not "other people's money". That's just wrong on its face.

  19. #2499
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Putting "balancing the budget" ahead of people's suffering is entirely the point I was making.



    This is an empty falsehood.

    It isn't "other people's money". It's the government's money. I know it's convenient to try and rewrite simple facts when they don't fit your rhetoric, but that's not an honest argument.

    It flatly, objectively, is not "other people's money". That's just wrong on its face.
    You have no problem if people suffer, so long as it's the wealthy.

    "Your paycheck doesn't belong to you, it belongs to me!!!"

  20. #2500
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Plenty of individuals compete with lobbyists... but I guess that doesn't really fit your narrative. Are you saying nobody can compete with BLM and their lobbying?
    Name them... name the individuals lobbying...

    Yes, I am saying that vast majority of people cannot compete with organizations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You have no problem if people suffer, so long as it's the wealthy.

    "Your paycheck doesn't belong to you, it belongs to me!!!"
    I am sorry, that is exactly what you are doing. I am fine where my money is going, you have a problem with it.

    Keep virtue signaling... keep digging that empty hole...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

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