1. #2541
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    None. Punk Rockers and Anarchist and Libertarians really don't have that different a politics. Ultimately they are defined by either a direct love of Markets or a commedified consumer choice and branding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  2. #2542
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Answering one question is not answering the other questions.
    Let me make it real simple...

    Corporate PACs receive funding from corporate profits.
    BLM and PP receive their funding from individual donations.

    The only reason why BLM or PP need a PAC or lobbying, because otherwise they won’t have a voice. Treating lobbying as bribe, removes the disadvantage none profit organization face, against companies that measure their lobbying versus the saving it would result in.

    On top of this, corporations already dissolve personal or individual liability, because they incorporated. That’s the whole point of being a corporation... to not take on the liability as an individual.

    Lobbying in no way, shape or form... helps BLM or PP... just compare how much corporate super PACs spend to create wedge issues like BLM or controversy over PP. There would be no controversy for BLM or PP to need to even lobby, if it were not for the corporate arm pushing said controversy, because they can’t win on corporate tax cuts alone.

    Look at Trump... His campaign was mostly attacking BLM and things like PP... who paid for that? Why does PP and BLM need a super PAC, for a manufactured battle, paid for by corporations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    None. Punk Rockers and Anarchist and Libertarians really don't have that different a politics. Ultimately they are defined by either a direct love of Markets or a commedified consumer choice and branding.
    Keep telling your self... sorry, I mean... keep listening to Tim Pool... this predates 9/11...

    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  3. #2543
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    None. Punk Rockers and Anarchist and Libertarians really don't have that different a politics. Ultimately they are defined by either a direct love of Markets or a commedified consumer choice and branding.
    Yeah, Punk and Anarchists who oppose any sort of strong hierarchic structure versus libertarians who think the free market solves everything and that the rich should own everything.


    Yeah, totally the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  4. #2544
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Answering one question is not answering the other questions.

    You try to keep it simple, but these things are not simple. We're talking about millions, hundreds of millions, maybe billions of dollars suddenly not going to corporations that built their basis or parts of it on them. They have to fulfill contracts themselves which leads to other corporations missing out because you came up with a simple proposal that starts a chain of events in the name of liberty and freedom just so wealthy people and corporations can keep their influence. Funny enough, influence you also criticize them for.
    I specifically chose simple things, because the entire point is compromise, and a willingness to not always get what you want. otherwise, you have no cause to complain when the other side does the same thing when they are in power.

    Even worse, for someone like me, the revenge-style governance means that liberty is attacked each and every time.

    I'm well aware that many rely on the government, which is exactly what I'm trying to stop.... to the tune of about 2-3% a year. That really isn't that much, when it comes down to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  5. #2545
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Yeah, Punk and Anarchists who oppose any sort of strong hierarchic structure versus libertarians who think the free market solves everything and that the rich should own everything.


    Yeah, totally the same.
    Punk is a genre of music that largely died in the 90s, what they are for or against doesn't matter. Like any music scene, most are for getting laid and listening to music and buying merch. Punk is just "People who various hair styles, patches on a jacket and buttons and tattoos." its a consume lifestyle brand. Anarchists could be anything, AnCaps, AnComs, you know various flavors of whatever. AnCaps for example believe the are the ultimate Libertarians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  6. #2546
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Punk is a genre of music that largely died in the 90s, what they are for or against doesn't matter. Like any music scene, most are for getting laid and listening to music and buying merch. Punk is just "People who various hair styles, patches on a jacket and buttons and tattoos." its a consume lifestyle brand. Anarchists could be anything, AnCaps, AnComs, you know various flavors of whatever. AnCaps for example believe the are the ultimate Libertarians.
    punk is still alive and kicking. and still dominated by leftists and anarchists. like it has always been.


    ancaps are also the polar opposite of what anarchism stands. it's cool that you have no idea what anarchism theory is even about, but don't start pretending you actually have any idea about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The election has passed and 58 million working class Americans stood up and proved that they are in fact your racist uncle and jerk co-workers.
    They really can't help but show disdain for the working class.

  7. #2547
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    punk is still alive and kicking. and still dominated by leftists and anarchists. like it has always been.


    ancaps are also the polar opposite of what anarchism stands. it's cool that you have no idea what anarchism theory is even about, but don't start pretending you actually have any idea about it.
    Ah, I can now guess what your genre of music is. I was a scene girl myself, emo, screamo, that was great.

    And, AnCaps are still a type of Anarchist. All Anarchists seem incorrect IMHO, be they AnCaps or AnComs, its all incorrect. But that is more of its own topic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  8. #2548
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    punk is still alive and kicking. and still dominated by leftists and anarchists. like it has always been.


    ancaps are also the polar opposite of what anarchism stands. it's cool that you have no idea what anarchism theory is even about, but don't start pretending you actually have any idea about it.
    There are a ton of forms of anarchism. AnCap is one of them. And it’s no more fanciful than any of the rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Ah, I can now guess what your genre of music is. I was a scene girl myself, emo, screamo, that was great.

    And, AnCaps are still a type of Anarchist. All Anarchists seem incorrect IMHO, be they AnCaps or AnComs, its all incorrect. But that is more of its own topic.
    Idk, it is a thread to discuss anarchism vs libertarianism. They’re actually super close in a number of areas, so it’d be interesting to discuss if our resident libertarians were willing to do so. Apparently they want to discuss what other posters support versus less spending and government.

  9. #2549
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Ah, I can now guess what your genre of music is. I was a scene girl myself, emo, screamo, that was great.
    No shit... there is a big difference between punk and scene... Kinda how there is a difference between wearing baggy pants, because you are broke and shopping at a thrift shop... and buying the 200$ version from hot topic...



    And, AnCaps are still a type of Anarchist. All Anarchists seem incorrect IMHO, be they AnCaps or AnComs, its all incorrect. But that is more of its own topic.
    From a perspective of a NeoCon... no shit...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  10. #2550
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Ah, I can now guess what your genre of music is. I was a scene girl myself, emo, screamo, that was great.

    And, AnCaps are still a type of Anarchist. All Anarchists seem incorrect IMHO, be they AnCaps or AnComs, its all incorrect. But that is more of its own topic.
    Ancaps are not anarchists. You would have to have no clue what anarchism actually stood for to consider them a part of the anarchist movement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    There are a ton of forms of anarchism. AnCap is one of them. And it’s no more fanciful than any of the rest.
    .
    Anarchism as a political movement stands opposed to hierarchy domination and exploitation. Capitalism can't exist without these.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #2551
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Ancaps are not anarchists. You would have to have no clue what anarchism actually stood for to consider them a part of the anarchist movement.

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    Anarchism as a political movement stands opposed to hierarchy domination and exploitation. Capitalism can't exist without these.
    Depends on which flavor of anarchy the individual espouses. Just like with Libertarians. It’s a weird hodgepodge of contradictions and you just have to deal with it. See this thread for evidence of the Libertarian side.

  12. #2552
    Herald of the Titans bladeXcrasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Let me make it real simple...

    Corporate PACs receive funding from corporate profits.
    BLM and PP receive their funding from individual donations.

    The only reason why BLM or PP need a PAC or lobbying, because otherwise they won’t have a voice. Treating lobbying as bribe, removes the disadvantage none profit organization face, against companies that measure their lobbying versus the saving it would result in.

    On top of this, corporations already dissolve personal or individual liability, because they incorporated. That’s the whole point of being a corporation... to not take on the liability as an individual.

    Lobbying in no way, shape or form... helps BLM or PP... just compare how much corporate super PACs spend to create wedge issues like BLM or controversy over PP. There would be no controversy for BLM or PP to need to even lobby, if it were not for the corporate arm pushing said controversy, because they can’t win on corporate tax cuts alone.

    Look at Trump... His campaign was mostly attacking BLM and things like PP... who paid for that? Why does PP and BLM need a super PAC, for a manufactured battle, paid for by corporations?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Keep telling your self... sorry, I mean... keep listening to Tim Pool... this predates 9/11...

    Vandals good Hitler bad.

  13. #2553
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I specifically chose simple things, because the entire point is compromise, and a willingness to not always get what you want. otherwise, you have no cause to complain when the other side does the same thing when they are in power.

    Even worse, for someone like me, the revenge-style governance means that liberty is attacked each and every time.

    I'm well aware that many rely on the government, which is exactly what I'm trying to stop.... to the tune of about 2-3% a year. That really isn't that much, when it comes down to it.
    You can't ask or even hope for compromise if you are unwilling to explain what your simple solution would mean for a million people.

    Well, that and you ever ambiguity about everything. You want 2-3% fewer to rely on the government per year? How many is that? How many people are directly or indirectly relying on the government paying them? And why do you think is it ok to attack their liberty and freedom?

    Why not increase taxes and use that surplus exclusively to pay off debt? It would hit those who profited the most of the borrowed future money more which makes it fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Depends on which flavor of anarchy the individual espouses. Just like with Libertarians. It’s a weird hodgepodge of contradictions and you just have to deal with it. See this thread for evidence of the Libertarian side.
    The guy that came up with the idea of anarcho-capitalism said himself it has nothing to do with anarchism.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  14. #2554
    Banned Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    I created a monster...

  15. #2555
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    You can't ask or even hope for compromise if you are unwilling to explain what your simple solution would mean for a million people.

    Well, that and you ever ambiguity about everything. You want 2-3% fewer to rely on the government per year? How many is that? How many people are directly or indirectly relying on the government paying them? And why do you think is it ok to attack their liberty and freedom?

    Why not increase taxes and use that surplus exclusively to pay off debt? It would hit those who profited the most of the borrowed future money more which makes it fair.

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    The guy that came up with the idea of anarcho-capitalism said himself it has nothing to do with anarchism.
    Care to link that? As far as I’m aware he started as a regular anarchist and evolved into what he described as ancap. Never heard him say his politics had nothing to do with anarchism.

  16. #2556
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    You can't ask or even hope for compromise if you are unwilling to explain what your simple solution would mean for a million people.

    Well, that and you ever ambiguity about everything. You want 2-3% fewer to rely on the government per year? How many is that? How many people are directly or indirectly relying on the government paying them? And why do you think is it ok to attack their liberty and freedom?

    Why not increase taxes and use that surplus exclusively to pay off debt? It would hit those who profited the most of the borrowed future money more which makes it fair.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The guy that came up with the idea of anarcho-capitalism said himself it has nothing to do with anarchism.
    I want the government to be able to become more efficient, and less all-encompassing, at a rate of 2-3% a year. The USDA owns more than 30 buildings in the DC area alone. The NSA has up to 40k employees, and the DoD has spent an ungodly sum on a mediocre fighter jet.

    As for increasing taxes, the problem is that that just promotes the government spending more. We have increased taxes, and we just ended up spending more and more. And therein lies the problem, who is paying those increased taxes. It's always the "other" guy paying it. I get that you're not an American, but if you were, how much more would you be willing to personally pay to balance the budget? As it stands, the deficit alone is over $3k per person, per year. Oh, and that's not including the Covid impact, which would be an additional... $7600 per person. Yes, that's how much extra the government has spent in the past year.

    So, would you be willing to hand the government $10k right now, and another $3k a year, per member of your family? Or, ar you going to demand someone else pay the lion's share of that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  17. #2557
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Care to link that? As far as I’m aware he started as a regular anarchist and evolved into what he described as ancap. Never heard him say his politics had nothing to do with anarchism.
    "Rothbard used the term anarcho-capitalism to distinguish his philosophy from anarchism that opposes private property[44] as well as to distinguish it from other forms of individualist anarchism.[45]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

    I mean, of course, he could've been lying but if anarchism rejects capitalism then anarcho-capitalism makes no sense to be a form of anarchism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I want the government to be able to become more efficient, and less all-encompassing, at a rate of 2-3% a year. The USDA owns more than 30 buildings in the DC area alone. The NSA has up to 40k employees, and the DoD has spent an ungodly sum on a mediocre fighter jet.

    As for increasing taxes, the problem is that that just promotes the government spending more. We have increased taxes, and we just ended up spending more and more. And therein lies the problem, who is paying those increased taxes. It's always the "other" guy paying it. I get that you're not an American, but if you were, how much more would you be willing to personally pay to balance the budget? As it stands, the deficit alone is over $3k per person, per year. Oh, and that's not including the Covid impact, which would be an additional... $7600 per person. Yes, that's how much extra the government has spent in the past year.

    So, would you be willing to hand the government $10k right now, and another $3k a year, per member of your family? Or, ar you going to demand someone else pay the lion's share of that?
    I have no clue why you posted this, you could've just read my post instead because everything you've just asked is already covered in that post.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  18. #2558
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    "Rothbard used the term anarcho-capitalism to distinguish his philosophy from anarchism that opposes private property[44] as well as to distinguish it from other forms of individualist anarchism.[45]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

    I mean, of course, he could've been lying but if anarchism rejects capitalism then anarcho-capitalism makes no sense to be a form of anarchism.

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    I have no clue why you posted this, you could've just read my post instead because everything you've just asked is already covered in that post.
    I posted it to show exactly how much it would cost to balance the budget, and that doesn't even cover paying down chunks of the debt. I also wanted to highlight the issue, wanting other people to pay for it. That's how bit the annual deficit is... per person. Sure, it's a lot easier to have someone else pay for it, which just screams of selfishness. If you think raising taxes is the answer, how much more would you personally be willing to pay? Is it the average that would be required? Is it even close?

    This is usually the part where I hear someone say the wealthy just need to sell a yacht.

    If the only answer to major deficits is "raise taxes on someone else," then you have the exact reason why that "someone else" will do everything they can to prevent it... including lobbying, donating to politicians, leaving, pushing tax loopholes, shifting funds overseas, buying other companies to show losses, or any other host of options.

    This is why I find it hilarious that people call libertarians selfish. The complete and utter lack of self-awareness is astounding...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Ah, I can now guess what your genre of music is. I was a scene girl myself, emo, screamo, that was great.

    And, AnCaps are still a type of Anarchist. All Anarchists seem incorrect IMHO, be they AnCaps or AnComs, its all incorrect. But that is more of its own topic.
    So, to be clear, you'd prefer they support ethno-nationalism like you do?
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  19. #2559
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    "Rothbard used the term anarcho-capitalism to distinguish his philosophy from anarchism that opposes private property[44] as well as to distinguish it from other forms of individualist anarchism.[45]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

    I mean, of course, he could've been lying but if anarchism rejects capitalism then anarcho-capitalism makes no sense to be a form of anarchism.

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    I have no clue why you posted this, you could've just read my post instead because everything you've just asked is already covered in that post.
    You’re misunderstanding. He’s saying it’s a new unique form of anarchism and was distinguishing it from other forms. The man was a proponent of anarchism his entire life. Hell, it’s why he and Ayn Rand were constantly at odds.

  20. #2560
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I posted it to show exactly how much it would cost to balance the budget, and that doesn't even cover paying down chunks of the debt. I also wanted to highlight the issue, wanting other people to pay for it. That's how bit the annual deficit is... per person. Sure, it's a lot easier to have someone else pay for it, which just screams of selfishness. If you think raising taxes is the answer, how much more would you personally be willing to pay? Is it the average that would be required? Is it even close?

    This is usually the part where I hear someone say the wealthy just need to sell a yacht.

    If the only answer to major deficits is "raise taxes on someone else," then you have the exact reason why that "someone else" will do everything they can to prevent it... including lobbying, donating to politicians, leaving, pushing tax loopholes, shifting funds overseas, buying other companies to show losses, or any other host of options.

    This is why I find it hilarious that people call libertarians selfish. The complete and utter lack of self-awareness is astounding...
    The selfish argument is nonsense.

    It is a fact that wealthy people benefit more from society and government spending, asking them to pay more than now, not even their fair share, just a bit more, to balance the budget is in no way selfish.

    What's selfish is if you want others who can't provide more to pay the price for your gains.

    You are fine with people losing their jobs and/or getting paid less just so you don't have to pay more in taxes and then have the guts to call those who think that's wrong, selfish.

    And to argue, they'd fight it because they have the means to do so, is just giving up, not trying to make meaningful or lasting change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    You’re misunderstanding. He’s saying it’s a new unique form of anarchism and was distinguishing it from other forms. The man was a proponent of anarchism his entire life. Hell, it’s why he and Ayn Rand were constantly at odds.
    I don't see a difference between what you're saying and what I am saying. I mean, they are in major parts polar opposite to each other.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

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