1. #1101

  2. #1102
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Except that’s a blatant lie. Where did I ever say I want to ban EVERYTHING I oppose? Just certain things. Like you.
    I'm pointing to your decision to oppose freedom of speech by banning donations.

    Why do you hate freedom of speech so fucking much?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    @Machismo do you vote?
    Yep.

    /10char

  3. #1103
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm pointing to your decision to oppose freedom of speech by banning donations.

    Why do you hate freedom of speech so fucking much?

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    Yep.

    /10char
    First, I don’t support banning donations stop lying. I support banning the ways the wealthy unduly influence politics. I’m all for an individuals freedom of speech in politics. You are the one who opposes that. And if you vote you’e a hypocrite. You oppose people influencing politics, the fuck do you think your vote does?

  4. #1104
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Thanks for admitting you're claim is utterly baseless.
    If my claim is baseless then you're screwed as a libertarian because there's no way other people will want to increase liberty unless everyone has more trust that everyone else will only use their liberty in ethical and desirable ways.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  5. #1105
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    First, I don’t support banning donations stop lying. I support banning the ways the wealthy unduly influence politics. I’m all for an individuals freedom of speech in politics. You are the one who opposes that. And if you vote you’e a hypocrite. You oppose people influencing politics, the fuck do you think your vote does?
    You called for corporations and PACs to not be able to donate.

    So, you want freedom of speech for some... but not others.

    Are you really so desperate to say that me voting makes me a hypocrite? Man, you really are desperate. By all means, keep going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    If my claim is baseless then you're screwed as a libertarian because there's no way other people will want to increase liberty unless everyone has more trust that everyone else will only use their liberty in ethical and desirable ways.
    It's baseless by the definition of the word.

    Don't blame me, this is your argument.

  6. #1106
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You called for corporations and PACs to not be able to donate.

    So, you want freedom of speech for some... but not others.

    Are you really so desperate to say that me voting makes me a hypocrite? Man, you really are desperate.

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    It's baseless by the definition of the word.

    Don't blame me, this is your argument.
    Corporations and pacs aren’t people. Why do you think they are?

  7. #1107
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Corporations and pacs aren’t people. Why do you think they are?
    They still have freedom of speech, or did you forget?

  8. #1108
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    They still have freedom of speech.
    They will continue to enjoy that without an unlimited ability to buy politicians. See, they can still put out ads and the like. Or should they get the vote too?

  9. #1109
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    They will continue to enjoy that without an unlimited ability to buy politicians. See, they can still put out ads and the like.
    And you want to stifle their freedom of speech.

  10. #1110
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's baseless by the definition of the word.

    Don't blame me, this is your argument.
    Well then your ideology is doomed if my claim is baseless. You've kind of put yourself in a self-defeating situation because if people and society don't make progress then authoritarianism is the only alternative.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  11. #1111
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Well then your ideology is screwed if my claim is baseless. You've kind of put yourself in a self-defeating situation because if people and society don't make progress then authoritarianism is the only alternative.
    Nah, I'm good. Lucky for me, I actually understand how science and such things work.

  12. #1112
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    And you want to stifle their freedom of speech.
    Nope. I want their ability to influence politics brought in line. Why do you support the JD legislation and Texas abortion laws?

  13. #1113
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Nope. I want their ability to influence politics brought in line. Why do you support the JD legislation and Texas abortion laws?
    So, you also want to limit people from doing the exact same thing, right?

    I don't support those laws, stop lying.

  14. #1114
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    So, you also want to limit people from doing the exact same thing, right?

    I don't support those laws, stop lying.
    They already have those limitations. I want them applied universally. PACs are gone forever, since the people they rep already have their individual donations, corporations can each make donations the same as any other individual, if you insist on being a corporatist and treating them as people who deserve to rule us.

  15. #1115
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    They already have those limitations. I want them applied universally. PACs are gone forever, since the people they rep already have their individual donations, corporations can each make donations the same as any other individual, if you insist on being a corporatist and treating them as people who deserve to rule us.
    That's not equality, that's an outright ban.

  16. #1116
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    That's not equality, that's an outright ban.
    No it isn’t. Which person affected is prevented from donating to a campaign? Name one.

  17. #1117
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    No it isn’t. Which person affected is prevented from donating to a campaign? Name one.
    You just said PACs are gone forever.

  18. #1118
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You just said PACs are gone forever.
    Right. All they do is allow individuals to exceed personal donation limits and push shit like the Tx abortion law you wish to prevent from ever happening. I’m talking solutions. And, remember, PACs aren’t people. I asked which people are prevented from making political donations?

    And YOU said you don’t want PACs to have any political influence. So idk where you’re going here.

  19. #1119
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Right. All they do is allow individuals to exceed personal donation limits and push shit like the Tx abortion law you wish to prevent from ever happening. I’m talking solutions. And, remember, PACs aren’t people. I asked which people are prevented from making political donations?
    So... a ban.

    The Supreme Court would like to have a chat with you.

    Of course, you could always oppose the laws, instead of all the corporatists in this thread who are defending them, and saying it's marketing.

  20. #1120
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    PACs are one way, so are lobbyists, grass-roots organizations, people, corporations, they all do it.

    I'd rather stop them all from shitting on liberty.

    Stop the shitty laws they push, and oppose them.
    And with you. More so since you want to ban individuals from having their freedom of speech. You know, the ones actually protected by freedom of speech.

    Wait, but you don't want to shit on liberty... How, contradictory. Weird.

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