Punk rockers/anarchists and Libertarians, what is the difference?

[Ivanstone]

That would make me an anarchist, and I've sufficiently shown I'm not.

The rest of us have much higher standards than you. You have not sufficiently shown that you’re not an anarchist.

[Machismo]

The rest of us have much higher standards than you. You have not sufficiently shown that you’re not an anarchist.

I support the existence of government.

There is evidence in my favor.

[bladeXcrasher]

At least we're past the lie that abortions aren't a service.

Interesting, you confusing who you're talking to again? Please quote me talking about them being or not being a service. I'll expect a full apology for strawmaning me.

[Machismo]

Interesting, you confusing who you're talking to again? Please quote me talking about them being or not being a service. I'll expect a full apology for strawmaning me.

Nope, I'm just glad we're clear on the issue, and that the regulations being pushed count as "consumer protections."

[Bodakane]

Nope, please show where I don't support any regulations.

That would make me an anarchist, and I've sufficiently shown I'm not.

You think the government is a boot stomping on corporations' liberties. This is why so many people are arguing with you.

[Machismo]

You think the government is a boot stomping on corporations' liberties. This is why so many people are arguing with you.

I'm literally the one opposing corporate-backed legislation meant to give them a competitive advantage...

You're arguing with me, because you love to argue.

Thanks for agreeing I'm not an anarchist. It was a long road, but we finally got you here.

[Shadowferal]

I'm literally the one opposing corporate-backed legislation meant to give them a competitive advantage.

And yet you insist that big business should have the liberty of the "free market" and freedom of speech.

[Machismo]

And yet you insist that big business should have the liberty of the "free market" and freedom of speech.

So, now you're angry that I support free speech?

You really should be more consistent.

[Bodakane]

I'm literally the one opposing corporate-backed legislation meant to give them a competitive advantage...

You're arguing with me, because you love to argue.

Thanks for agreeing I'm not an anarchist. It was a long road, but we finally got you here.

No you aren't. You want less legislation, less regulation. You think those are the tools of the government to hinder liberty.

You want corporations to be in charge of the government instead of the people, because you think a government of the people and for the people is at the same time, facist, socialist and authoritarian. You've said as much directly, in this thread, to me, days ago.

People are arguing with you, because you keep changing your argument based on your misunderstanding of the terms you're using and the fact that you lack the ability to admit you're wrong.

Again, many, many, many, many people are having the same problem with you and are saying the same thing. I challenge you to consider that.

[Felya]

At least we're past the lie that abortions aren't a service.

It’s not... service is what you hold, if one ignores medical advice.

[Machismo]

No you aren't. You want less legislation, less regulation. You think those are the tools of the government to hinder liberty.

You want corporations to be in charge of the government instead of the people, because you think a government of the people and for the people is at the same time, facist, socialist and authoritarian. You've said as much directly, in this thread, to me, days ago.

People are arguing with you, because you keep changing your argument based on your misunderstanding of the terms you're using and the fact that you lack the ability to admit you're wrong.

Again, many, many, many, many people are having the same problem with you and are saying the same thing. I challenge you to consider that.

So... not an anarchist.

Whew, glad that's cleared up.

Nope, I want government much smaller, and I don't want any authoritarians in charge. Your authoritarian policies aren't really any different than those of random corporations.

I don't really care how many people disagree with me, I've long accepted that most people love big government, and want the government to ban everything they don't like.

- - - Updated - - -

It’s not... service is what you hold, if one ignores medical advice.

Nope, Planned Parenthood says abortion is a service. I'm guessing they'd know.

[Shadowferal]

So, now you're angry that I support free speech? You really should be more consistent.

When you support Big business and political disinformation and the trotted out belief from organizations that vaccines cause autism...
Well...you do come across as very much the stereotypical libertarian.

I'm glad to see you're admitting to holding such beliefs. Now if we can get you to admit that such is crazy and deranged beliefs we can move forward.

[Machismo]

When you support Big business and political disinformation and the trotted out belief from organizations that vaccines cause autism...
Well...you do come across as very much the stereotypical libertarian.

I'm glad to see you're admitting to holding such beliefs. Now if we can get you to admit that such is crazy and deranged beliefs we can move forward.

Well, you need to decide if I support free speech, or not. You keep contradicting yourself.

[Shadowferal]

Well, you need to decide if I support free speech, or not. You keep contradicting yourself.

Everyone already knows what you are. The question is how you've become this misanthrope. Not one person has been convinced of anything you've spouted. In that, you're identical to PC2.

[Edge-]

Once again, Planned parenthood calls it a service, so do you disagree with them?

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/pl...rtion-services

What does a service have to do with this? It's a medical procedure, it's a service offered by PP that is medical in nature. It's not a consumer good.

Jesus, do you believe the Democratic Republic of the Congo is actually Democratic or a Republic just because it's in the name?

The United States Government says it is a service.

Just about every health care provider I can find talks about the services they offer.

https://www.sutterhealth.org/services/surgical
https://www.johnmuirhealth.com/servi...ilitation.html

Yes, it's a service. It's not a consumer good or a consumer service, it's medical in nature. The two are uniquely different. Good lord, words have meaning and aren't mutable to whatever you want them to be.

[Machismo]

Everyone already knows what you are. The question is how you've become this misanthrope. Not one person has been convinced of anything you've spouted. In that, you're identical to PC2.

So, do I support free speech, or not?

- - - Updated - - -

What does a service have to do with this? It's a medical procedure, it's a service offered by PP that is medical in nature. It's not a consumer good.

Jesus, do you believe the Democratic Republic of the Congo is actually Democratic or a Republic just because it's in the name?



https://www.sutterhealth.org/services/surgical
https://www.johnmuirhealth.com/servi...ilitation.html

Yes, it's a service. It's not a consumer good or a consumer service, it's medical in nature. The two are uniquely different. Good lord, words have meaning and aren't mutable to whatever you want them to be.

So, glad you're finally on the train that it's a service. Are you arguing that it's a patient service, so we need patient protections?

Well< I have good news for you, because the conservatives are working hard on that right now!!!

But hey, I'm glad we're at the point where you admit it's a service.

[Edge-]

So, glad you're finally on the train that it's a service. Are you arguing that it's a patient service, so we need patient protections?

Well< I have good news for you, because the conservatives are working hard on that right now!!!

Looking at potential regulations in a vacuum, as you seem determined to do, is pointless. Medical regulations should always be first and foremost to protect patients, and there is such a thing as pointlessly burdensome requirements like requiring abortion providers have hallways of a certain width. There's no actual medical need for this and it infringed on women's rights, as the SCOTUS ruled when Texas tried to pull this shit - https://www.texastribune.org/2016/06...abortion-case/

Because...Context. Fucking. Matters. As it does with every regulation.

[Machismo]

Looking at potential regulations in a vacuum, as you seem determined to do, is pointless. Medical regulations should always be first and foremost to protect patients, and there is such a thing as pointlessly burdensome requirements like requiring abortion providers have hallways of a certain width. There's no actual medical need for this and it infringed on women's rights, as the SCOTUS ruled when Texas tried to pull this shit - https://www.texastribune.org/2016/06...abortion-case/

Because...Context. Fucking. Matters. As it does with every regulation.

That's what the proponents want to do... protect patients.

They cite the need to get stretchers to patients in case of a medical emergency.

That's the thing, the SCOTUS will likely see these things again. How do you think they will rule with a 6-3 conservative majority? Do you see where this is going?

[Bodakane]

So... not an anarchist.

Whew, glad that's cleared up.

Nope, I want government much smaller, and I don't want any authoritarians in charge. Your authoritarian policies aren't really any different than those of random corporations.

I don't really care how many people disagree with me, I've long accepted that most people love big government, and want the government to ban everything they don't like.

1. I never said you were an anarchist. Jesus fucking christ. I said you're a corporatist because you'd rather corporations run our government than the people.
2. I know you want government smaller. All corporatists do. They want the government to stop telling corporations what to do.
3. Its not about how many people disagree with you. Its about how many people are telling you, that you don't fundamentally understand the words and concepts you're using.

[Edge-]

That's what the proponents want to do... protect patients.

Ok, but like, is the Democratic Republic of the Congo actually a Democratic Republic? Or do you look to see if it holds up to its name or not? Like these patient protection proposals - have they been evaluated by the medical community? What's the cost/benefit for patients and providers? Is there a goal in de-facto banning legal abortion?

That's what I'm talking about dude. These things don't exist in a vacuum where they can't be qualitatively analyzed.

They cite the need to get stretchers to patients in case of a medical emergency.

No, actually. 8 foot hallways aren't required to get stretchers through at all, it's an arbitrary restriction placed with the specific intent of de-facto banning abortion. There's no actual medical necessity for this, and it does not provide patients with any additional protections.

Again, we can qualitatively look at proposed regulations individually. It's not an "all or nothin, and take them at face value" kinda thing.

That's the thing, the SCOTUS will likely see these things again. How do you think they will rule with a 6-3 conservative majority? Do you see where this is going?

Yes, government is messy. What's new?