Punk rockers/anarchists and Libertarians, what is the difference?

[Machismo]

Sure.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_...bs_Act_of_2017

There you go Trumpy bear. Now answer the question and quit dodging.

We haven't cut spending, which is rather key.

[Stormspellz]

Less and less.

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You know... cutting spending. Or, at the very least, stop spending increases.

Oh, that's right, I called for that a week ago.

what should we cut? oh i know the endless war? Oh look what Biden announced today. Maybe we should just let people die by cutting unemployment benifits/covid relief/vaccines support, that would be republican's answer of course. So whats yours

[Ivanstone]

Funny, the Dems weren't pushing for a balanced budget in the past few years when they and the GOP pushed bigger and bigger deficits.

Restrict the action that causes harm. That's pretty on-brand for me.

The Dems always push for a balanced budget. You invest in the country and it might pay dividends. It worked for Clinton, Obama at least narrowed the deficit. Some individual Dem states regularly run in the black. Red states only function because they can leach money from actually prosperous states.

Sometimes you run into innovative criminals who's crimes need to be addressed afterwards. Angelo Mozilo was one of the few people actually punished for the Great Recession. He abused banking deregulation, helped fuck the economy and then Dems had to reintroduce some banking regulations afterwards.

[Machismo]

what should we cut? oh i know the endless war? Oh look what Biden announced today. Maybe we should just let people die by cutting unemployment benifits/covid relief/vaccines support, that would be republican's answer of course. So whats yours

Yes, cut defense spending. Start there. Start by not increasing spending for five years, something I called for several days ago.

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The Dems always push for a balanced budget. You invest in the country and it might pay dividends. It worked for Clinton, Obama at least narrowed the deficit. Some individual Dem states regularly run in the black. Red states only function because they can leach money from actually prosperous states.

Sometimes you run into innovative criminals who's crimes need to be addressed afterwards. Angelo Mozilo was one of the few people actually punished for the Great Recession. He abused banking deregulation, helped fuck the economy and then Dems had to reintroduce some banking regulations afterwards.

SO, when was the last time that Democrats voted for a balanced budget?

[Ivanstone]

SO, when was the last time that Democrats voted for a balanced budget?

If you can subtract the GOP's mistakes, every Dem budget is a balanced budget. It hasn't worked since Clinton. If Obama's stimulus was larger he would've been able to pay for Bush's mistakes much quicker and then probably get back to a budget surplus. Biden's next budget could've been balanced but he has to pay for Trump's fuck ups first.

[Machismo]

If you can subtract the GOP's mistakes, every Dem budget is a balanced budget. It hasn't worked since Clinton. If Obama's stimulus was larger he would've been able to pay for Bush's mistakes much quicker and then probably get back to a budget surplus. Biden's next budget could've been balanced but he has to pay for Trump's fuck ups first.

No, that's not really how it works. Obama's stimulus counted against the budget.

Talk about voodoo economics.

[Stormspellz]

Yes, cut defense spending. Start there. Start by not increasing spending for five years, something I called for several days ago.

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SO, when was the last time that Democrats voted for a balanced budget?

again, what are cutting? should we not give covid relief? that's increased spending.

[Machismo]

again, what are cutting? should we not give covid relief? that's increased spending.

We should have given far less Covid relief. it should have also been much more specific, and not the shitshow that the bailout was.

Heck, stop spending increases for 5 years. Let's see if we can even muster that.

[Ivanstone]

No, that's not really how it works. Obama's stimulus counted against the budget.

Talk about voodoo economics.

In voodoo economics there's no investment. That's why it doesn't work. That's why Trump's tax cuts failed. Why Reagan's tax cuts failed. Why Bush's tax cuts failed. All of those bozos hate taxes and regulation just as much as you do.

Obama's stimulus increased spending short term but after 2009 the deficit dropped every year he was in office and didn't start rising until a low tax, low regulation POTUS replaced him.

[Stormspellz]

We should have given far less Covid relief. it should have also been much more specific, and not the shitshow that the bailout was.

Heck, stop spending increases for 5 years. Let's see if we can even muster that.

you understand most of that shitshow was trump's kickbacks right? you know how republicans had that big fit about pelosi tried adding oversight to the bill under trump (along with election security/support, which history proved needed)

and you asking for even less when it has been already marginal at best? are you also going to say who gets to live and die as well?

[Machismo]

you understand most of that shitshow was trump's kickbacks right? you know how republicans had that big fit about pelosi tried adding oversight to the bill under trump (along with election security/support, which history proved needed)

and you asking for even less when it has been already marginal at best? are you also going to say who gets to live and die as well?

Trump is a complete shitshow, and nothing close to a fiscal conservative.

But, at least you are honest about not wanting a balanced budget. The other poster swears Dems want it.

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In voodoo economics there's no investment. That's why it doesn't work. That's why Trump's tax cuts failed. Why Reagan's tax cuts failed. Why Bush's tax cuts failed. All of those bozos hate taxes and regulation just as much as you do.

Obama's stimulus increased spending short term but after 2009 the deficit dropped every year he was in office and didn't start rising until a low tax, low regulation POTUS replaced him.

The deficit started going back up in the 2016 budget, his last two budget years saw drastic increases in the deficit.

[Ivanstone]

The deficit started going back up in the 2016 budget, his last two budget years saw drastic increases in the deficit.

Ok I was off a little. I blame McConnell. They weren't drastic and still smaller than all of Trump's years.

[Machismo]

Ok I was off a little. I blame McConnell. They weren't drastic and still smaller than all of Trump's years.

You can blame whoever the fuck you want, but Obama had his deficits go up his last two years.

Clinton came close back in the late 1990's, but most of the congressmen and senators voting for it... were not Democrats.

When you look at it, both Dem and GOP presidents are party to terrible deficits, with the GOP tending to be worse. When it comes to Congress, the reverse is actually true, with deficits being lower when GOP is in control.

[Stormspellz]

Trump is a complete shitshow, and nothing close to a fiscal conservative.

But, at least you are honest about not wanting a balanced budget. The other poster swears Dems want it.

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The deficit started going back up in the 2016 budget, his last two budget years saw drastic increases in the deficit.

you are delusional that a balanced budget can happen like a light switch flipping on/off, specifically in the middle of a pandemic. and Ivan is right, we would have budget surpluses under dems if dems didn't have to clean up gop messes every time they take office.

[Machismo]

you are delusional that a balanced budget can happen like a light switch flipping on/off, specifically in the middle of a pandemic. and Ivan is right, we would have budget surpluses under dems if dems didn't have to clean up gop messes every time they take office.

That's why I literally called for small steps, like stopping spending increases for 5 years.

He's not right, because his numbers are way, way off.

[Ivanstone]

You can blame whoever the fuck you want, but Obama had his deficits go up his last two years.

Clinton came close back in the late 1990's, but most of the congressmen and senators voting for it... were not Democrats.

When you look at it, both Dem and GOP presidents are party to terrible deficits, with the GOP tending to be worse. When it comes to Congress, the reverse is actually true, with deficits being lower when GOP is in control.

They still had to get past him.

A GOP congress with a GOP POTUS do not have lower deficits. Bush spent like a drunken sailor, gave money to people who didn't need it and his spending only stopped because Pelosi put a leash on him.

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That's why I literally called for small steps, like stopping spending increases for 5 years.

He's not right, because his numbers are way, way off.

No, you spend massively during a time of crisis. You reduce spending during times of prosperity.

[Machismo]

They still had to get past him.

A GOP congress with a GOP POTUS do not have lower deficits. Bush spent like a drunken sailor, gave money to people who didn't need it and his spending only stopped because Pelosi put a leash on him.

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No, you spend massively during a time of crisis. You reduce spending during times of prosperity.

That's not what I said, I said GOP Presidents tend to have higher deficits, and GOP congresses tend to have lower.

We never stopped spending massively, which is the point.

[Stormspellz]

That's why I literally called for small steps, like stopping spending increases for 5 years.

He's not right, because his numbers are way, way off.

thats not a small step thats like cutting off your leg to lose weight and no he's not, between bush taking a sledge hammer to what was left of bank regulations that exploded the door to the housing crisis, his war of lies and the tax cuts. Further more the deficit reduction did stall in the last few years but Obama went from bush's last fiscal year of 1.4T to 665B, sure it was an uptick from his lowest fiscal year deficit of 483b, to complain about that when he started at Bush's 1.4T is nothing short of comical

2019 was 984b and 2020 was 3.7t in fiscal deficits under Trump

[Ivanstone]

That's not what I said, I said GOP Presidents tend to have higher deficits, and GOP congresses tend to have lower.

We never stopped spending massively, which is the point.

GOP congresses do not have lower deficits. That only happened during the Clinton years and Clinton never had to deal with any massive problems like Obama. Reagan and Bush 1 were fuck ups but they didn't give Clinton anything as horrible as a massive recession or two unpayed for wars. When the GOP had congress during the Obama years deficits increased.

[Machismo]

That’s not what you asked for. Stop moving goalposts and answer the question.

Oh, I've been calling for that for years.

Hence the reason why we can lower taxes.

You're welcome.

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thats not a small step thats like cutting off your leg to lose weight and no he's not, between bush taking a sledge hammer to what was left of bank regulations that exploded the door to the housing crisis, his war of lies and the tax cuts. Further more the deficit reduction did stall in the last few years but Obama went from bush's last fiscal year of 1.4T to 665B, sure it was an uptick from his lowest fiscal year deficit of 483b, to complain about that when he started at Bush's 1.4T is nothing short of comical

2019 was 984b and 2020 was 3.7t in fiscal deficits under Trump

Bush's last year of deficits was huge, and just like Trump's (and Biden's will be) it's because of the bailout. SO, if you are going to give Obama a pass for huge deficits, the same can be said for Bush and his last one. They were fundamentally for the same reasons. I have no desire to give either of them a pass.

So, the very same people who are screaming to get more bailouts, don't really get to complain about the deficits caused by those bailouts.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...d-senate-1900/

https://datalab.usaspending.gov/amer...eficit/trends/

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GOP congresses do not have lower deficits. That only happened during the Clinton years and Clinton never had to deal with any massive problems like Obama. Reagan and Bush 1 were fuck ups but they didn't give Clinton anything as horrible as a massive recession or two unpayed for wars. When the GOP had congress during the Obama years deficits increased.

Clinton years, some of Obama's years, and even some of Bush's years.

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The point isn’t about decreasing spending, he wants no taxes.

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Let alone the first 2 years of Trump.

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@Machismo, let’s combine steps of reducing taxes and shrinking government. How far do you propose we take that? Reminder, I’m on your train now. I just want your sage advice.

Let's start by stopping spending increases for 5 years.

Baby steps.