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  1. #41
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    As SL has gone further on, i have come to realize, that most problems the story of WoW has atm, and in the last few years, mostly stem from a lack of story resourses, as the source material, WC3, have run up.

    This is not an uncommen thing for stories, so many stories told before have shown the way: A timeskip.

    And SL gives the right scenario for it. With us being in somewhat of a "different dimension", they have the right enviroment to make the players jump forward in time and somewhat creating a completly new world for us to return to.


    What do you think? Is time a good theme to build an expansion around or do you think that the currenct story, and timeline, has enough to carry WoW for some expansions still?
    I would love a time skip so that Blizzard could update the world to the state it apparently is meant to be in now. As well, to give some threats time to brew, and others time to recover, and to create more.
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  2. #42
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    As I see it the problem is Blizzards desire to keep familar figures around. Storywise not a problem for Nightelves who live 10.000 years, but they want to keep humans around too. Who would have to be all gone with a 100 year timeskip. Dangerous thing, get rid of too many familar faces and players might lose interest in the game.
    If you time travel, problem is solved.

  3. #43
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    I would love a time skip so that Blizzard could update the world to the state it apparently is meant to be in now. As well, to give some threats time to brew, and others time to recover, and to create more.
    That is also one of the odd things with WoW, it is happening in some many "time zones", that people can talk about something, that has happen, yet has not had an impact on the world. It creates these wierd space enigmas, that really makes you feel like the world is split in different time lines.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    I agree, honestly they should've used WoD for this purpose too; the amount of terrible stuff that's suddenly happening on Azeroth is ridiculous.

    Frankly they should just pick a point and start making warcraft 4, which could overlap or diverge from the story we see an experience in WoW as it pleases, but which should mostly "cover ground" in terms of setting up new rpg experiences.
    WoD was just a good chance to really start over, but then, Legion was a good counter to WoD, so it would have been a shame to be without it.

    But yeah, that could have been a good way to do it, especially with the Warcraft 4 thing. Maybe even do a game set in one of the many worlds we have been in (Outland, Argus, Pandaria, etc.) while the expansion is focused somewhere else. It could be interesting to see 2 games work side by side in the same world.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    That is also one of the odd things with WoW, it is happening in some many "time zones", that people can talk about something, that has happen, yet has not had an impact on the world. It creates these wierd space enigmas, that really makes you feel like the world is split in different time lines.

    - - - Updated - - -



    WoD was just a good chance to really start over, but then, Legion was a good counter to WoD, so it would have been a shame to be without it.

    But yeah, that could have been a good way to do it, especially with the Warcraft 4 thing. Maybe even do a game set in one of the many worlds we have been in (Outland, Argus, Pandaria, etc.) while the expansion is focused somewhere else. It could be interesting to see 2 games work side by side in the same world.
    Honestly adding a timeskip between WoD and Legion would not have prevented Legion from happening, arguably it could've made Legion even better as it would allow time for infiltration stories to unfold while we couldn't interfere.
    That way the invasion of Draenor would have been a bittersweet victory, as saving them would've bought the Legion time to set up away from our view, making their entrance even more dramatic potentially.

    Also in regards to the bolded part: that's exactly what i was thinking.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I think it'd be an interesting wrinkle that after our time in the Shadowlands, defeating the Jailer and setting right the realms of Death, that Azeroth has more or less moved on and changed in many ways - with the legacy of the Champion and Maw Walker having receded altogether into myth and thus irrelevance to the modern-day Azerothian. Possible major shake-ups and changes:

    • The completed renovation and rebuilding of Silvermoon and reclamation of the Ghostlands, with expansion all across Quel'Thalas and beginning to pour into the former Eastern Plaguelands (also restored and now going by its original name as the Eastweald).
    • The construction of a new Draenei capitol city, with the Exodar largely left behind and staffed only by a minor retinue (more a museum than a home).
    • The transformation of Nighthaven into the new Night Elven capitol, a sprawling arboreal metropolis that encompasses Hyjal as well.
    • Felwood has been cleansed of its Fel taint.
    • Long and often neglected, the Draenei and Night Elves enjoy a renewed unity due to their proximity - and while still nominally part of the Alliance, they are both distant and somewhat xenophobic towards even their allies.
    • Lordaeron and its surrounding territories have recovered, and the remnants of the Blight eradicated from the ruins of Undercity. To this day it remains unclaimed and mostly uninhabited, but is still a political point of contention between the Horde and Alliance.
    • Turalyon and Alleria rule as King and Queen of Stormwind, although the position of High King has been removed with the Alliance ruled by a council once more, albeit one that now meets infrequently as its member-states have become more isolated and less trusting. Anduin has abdicated his role as King upon returning from the Shadowlands, due to his experiences at the Jailer's hands. He has secluded himself somewhere unknown as he grapples with the fallout of his role in those events.
    • Khadgar has utterly disappeared and Karazhan itself is completely sealed against entry through means no one has yet discovered a means to breach.
    • The Horde has pursued an agenda of historical revisionism, seeking to undo their questionable past actions and associations. Blackrock Mountain has been more or less leveled, and all things that reference the Old Horde's heroes, Garrosh, and Sylvanas have been renamed and/or abandoned.
    • The Horde is still ruled by a council of leaders, but Lor'themar and Thalyssra (now married and ruling jointly over Quel'Thalas and Suramar) are the dominant voices of said council.
    • High Elves have all but disappeared from Azeroth, with many of them having chosen to become Void Elves under Alleria's banner, and the rest simply disappearing to places unknown. Former High Elven holdings have been given (or taken) by the Void Elves. Vereesa and her sons' whereabouts are unknown.
    • Dalaran has returned to the Eastern Kingdoms.
    I think you have a lot of great bullet points here.
    There's also nothing stopping Blizzard from resurrecting both Arthas and Archimonde and turning them into super saiyans so that they can fuse and fight Sargeras

  6. #46
    A 20-40 year timeskip would be best IMO. It can be done without killing off characters, but still allow for significant progression of time, and also allow for characters left on Azeroth to have children that grow to teenhood / adulthood. Thus, giving us a "next generation" of characters without killing the old ones.

  7. #47
    The Lightbringer Wangming's Avatar
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    As others have stated before, a time skip would also require some fresh talent in the team that is willing to make ballsy changes. And views the story as something more than a convenient way to provide fans with Sylvanas fan fiction.

    But with the right team we wouldn't even need to skip time. Just move every zone (and I do mean every zone) to the current era.

    Draenei still live in a crash site.

    Blood Elves still act like the sunwell is gone.

    Pandaren still deal with the same bloody injury for Shen Zin Su and the mainland never adressed the end of the Sha.

    The Night Elves need a new starting zone.

    The Forsaken need a new starting zone and a new culture that doesn't revolve around an insane cult leader who doesn't care about them.

    Pretty sure Gilneas is in Gilnean hands now so time to axe the best starting area and do something new with it. And give them monks, for fucks sake. Pink haired midgets are allowed to fight with bare hands, but werewolves aren't. Mmmkay.

    Duskwood had new worgen pack, the turning and massacre of the Night Watch, the Dark Riders being defeated, Tess and her quest to become a worgen and even a necromancer for Flynn and Johnny English to deal with. Enough shit to fill a novel. Might as well move the story forward.

    Oh and we have the Warfronts. And Stonetalon was nuked.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    As SL has gone further on, i have come to realize, that most problems the story of WoW has atm, and in the last few years, mostly stem from a lack of story resourses, as the source material, WC3, have run up.

    This is not an uncommen thing for stories, so many stories told before have shown the way: A timeskip.

    And SL gives the right scenario for it. With us being in somewhat of a "different dimension", they have the right enviroment to make the players jump forward in time and somewhat creating a completly new world for us to return to.


    What do you think? Is time a good theme to build an expansion around or do you think that the currenct story, and timeline, has enough to carry WoW for some expansions still?
    no, all it would accomplish is deleting all loose threads and having a soft reset.
    I dont want to play a WoW that is set 200 years in the future, technology is already far too far ahead of what it should reasonably be.

    What wow NEEDS to do is build up secondary characters in world and use a more diverse cast instead of relying on the same few characters. Too many characters are being dragged into the story who have no reason to be there. Thrall for example doesnt belong in the shadowlands and should have been left out of it. Same goes for pretty much the entire core cast, but they are the core group of 'good guys' so they were dragged into the story.

    I think wow suffers a lot from having every new threat having to outdo the last. Every new threat needs to be more POWERFUL! which gets silly, we are running around killing gods now, thats stupid. I dont want more powerful enemies, i just want credible and dangerous ones.

    I think the best example i can come up with is batman. The joker is one of, if not THE most iconic villians in all comic book history. what are his powers? none. Who could he possibly beat in a 1v1 fight? nobody. Hes a man in clown make up. So why is he so good? hes dangerous. he crosses the lines and has fun while doing it.
    Now i dont know if wow devs have the ability to write something up like that without needing to make everyone look incredibly stupid while doing so, but they could stand to add in new villians who are dangerous instead of powerful. I think their best attempt was garrosh, and honestly i think they did pretty well at that other than some of the story beats being kinda stupid and me personally never understanding his motivations. Garrosh wasnt superpowered (ok he had the sha heart) he was just dangerous because he did what made sense to him.

    I think another great villian was grand apothecary putress. The guy had his own goals, his own plans and executed them. He wasnt OP, he wasnt more powerful than any of the racial leaders or significant lore characters, yet he had a bigger impact than a lot of lore characters regardless! He wasnt powerful, yet he WAS dangerous.

    I think we just need more lower level characters doing cool stuff. Id love to see a human leader put in a stressful position and be forced to make hard decisions that anduin couldnt agree with, i guess you could say culling of stratholme dilemmas.
    We could use less screen time on thrall, anduin, baine and jaina who do nothing for the plot (jaina has but its so frikkin eratic and inconsistent, she's either insane and morally grey or anduinized) and more low level story drivers who blizz can allow to die at the end of a quest. More Grand apothecary Putresses or nazgrims etc. Not faction leaders but important, imperfect and dangerous individuals who are forced to solve problems with limited resources to the best of their abilities. Instead of shaving off more story from the corpse of warcraft 3 how about we build up some fresh characters that are consistent and only present in stories that they actually need to be in.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    As SL has gone further on, i have come to realize, that most problems the story of WoW has atm, and in the last few years, mostly stem from a lack of story resourses, as the source material, WC3, have run up.

    This is not an uncommen thing for stories, so many stories told before have shown the way: A timeskip.

    And SL gives the right scenario for it. With us being in somewhat of a "different dimension", they have the right enviroment to make the players jump forward in time and somewhat creating a completly new world for us to return to.


    What do you think? Is time a good theme to build an expansion around or do you think that the currenct story, and timeline, has enough to carry WoW for some expansions still?
    Do you know what is the laziest form of storytelling and the one that disconnects the person from the story? A timeskip. rarely does it work.

  10. #50
    Wow could really do good with a lot of things. But the developers are too biased about certain classes or toooo damn scared to give certain classes abilities to make the classes fun. Leaving the game to become stale as old bread.
    People on this thread only get pissed at you when you don't agree with them...FACT

  11. #51
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Honestly adding a timeskip between WoD and Legion would not have prevented Legion from happening, arguably it could've made Legion even better as it would allow time for infiltration stories to unfold while we couldn't interfere.
    That way the invasion of Draenor would have been a bittersweet victory, as saving them would've bought the Legion time to set up away from our view, making their entrance even more dramatic potentially.

    Also in regards to the bolded part: that's exactly what i was thinking.
    It would also have made our return to our own timeline grand and kind of heroic. After having gathered the races of "Old" Dreanor, we return as a "crusade" to save our own world after it has already been conquered.
    Cool idea really.

    That is also kind of what makes the idea of a timeskip in the world (with the players jumping forward in time), as the players could arrive in world, that is somewhat foreign and maybe unwelcome to us. Places that were once safe and secure could be dangerous, previous foes could become allies and friends could have turned side to become evil.
    I always loved the idea of the Light being evil and it taking over the world, so when we returned, what we thought was good, is now bad and the forces of somewhat evil are now our allies

    Could be fun

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tietoso View Post
    Do you know what is the laziest form of storytelling and the one that disconnects the person from the story? A timeskip. rarely does it work.
    I think it can work quite well and know a number of stories who does them excellently.

    But there is also a reason for the timeskips, they are a reaction to story-starvation or dead end. Its insanely hard to write out of and sometimes, you just need a skip in time for things to change or for characters to improve. The most normal version of this, is the tranning montage, which is a form of timeskup, where our hero goes away from some time to improve.

    We just need that in WoW, a "story-tranning montage", so our characters/world can get its nesseary development for a new season of stories.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  12. #52
    Pit Lord Dristereau's Avatar
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    If they did a Timeskip they don't really need to go into the distant future. Something as simple as 20 years would keep the major characters around but a lot can happen in this time. Those in the Shadowlands will ultimately be protected and return to a world they don't quite belong.

    I've always liked the idea of the Lightbound and the idea of Turalyon transforming Stormwind into a stronghold of fanatical light with the return of AU Yrel. Genn by this point would be an old man, distraught after losing Anduin for 20 years and broken. As for the Dwarves, Draenei and Night Elven leadership, they would still be around, but Moira Bronzebeard's son would be a young adult now, possibly looking at claiming the crown.

    I think it would be interesting to see where the Forsaken would end up during this time, see Silvermoon rebuilt by the Blood Elves. The Horde could be pretty stable during this period with the Tauren, Trolls and Orcs prospering. It would be interesting to see Thrall's children grown up and him meeting them as young adults.
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  13. #53
    Timeskips are tricky in a fantasy setting with races that each have different lifespans. Most elves that are alive now will be alive in a 100 years as well. The same can't be said for humans, orcs etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by EntertainmentNihilist View Post
    A 20-40 year timeskip would be best IMO. It can be done without killing off characters, but still allow for significant progression of time, and also allow for characters left on Azeroth to have children that grow to teenhood / adulthood. Thus, giving us a "next generation" of characters without killing the old ones.
    That would only work for humans, orcs and a few other races. Elves and Draenei for example would virtually be unchanged.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Caerule View Post
    Firstly: There will never be a timeskip.
    Never has been, never will be. WoW is a continuous story world. That's its style.

    Secondly: There does not need to be a timeskip.
    The world hasn't been updated in forever. We're off to the Shadowlands for 2 years. They have all the excuse they need to do a world update already. And if they don't feel that way yet, then they can just unleash a new cataclysmic world-wide event. Since Cata we've seen Orcish invasions, a failed Legion invasion with ships, the rise of the Black Empire, global wars, Draenor creatures escaping into the wilds (Easter egg with those Saberon and Botani). The Scourge has swarmed Azeroth. These things could have all sorts of remnants everywhere to justify new stories.

    Thirdly: You think you want a timeskip, but you don't.
    People aren't as fond of change as they feel on the surface. Characters evolving is often met with dismay by the fanbase. Character development confined to books and not being represented ingame is something many people despise. Canonically in the timeline, all expansions together, all events since vanilla, and all the events that shaped the world and its characters in that time, have taken place within a decade. I dare say characters have changed a lot. Now what would happen with a timeskip? Where we're not getting to see these characters evolve, and we're just asked to skip 5 or 10 years of development? A sudden detachment from current events and characters, towards a point in time where things have changed significantly. Initially people will like the idea. But in practice, it means having to accept missing out on a lot of development and evolution. Leading to a detachment that I feel wouldn't be good for people's connection to the game.

    For a different example, I liked the Harry Potter movies. They tell a story in sequence year to year. There's also a musical, that takes place in the future where there has been a timeskip and Harry is now a dad. I hear it's crap, but let's say it was amazing, I still don't think I'd be very compelled to see it. There's a big disconnect.

    This exactly. It isn't a time skip that's needed, but more of a world revamp to bring it up to date with where things are at now. For the most part, things have been in a the Cata state longer than they were prior to the Cata revamp. But a revamp is even less likely than a time skip.
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  15. #55
    Herald of the Titans Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    If you think about it, the heroes that accompanied us into the Shadowlands are iconic characters who are mortals with normal life span. With the exception of Tyrande (and Shandris) who jumped into the Maw for her personal vendetta against Sylvanas, Jaina/Thrall/Baine/Anduin (+Taelia who followed) are mortal characters who would have to be long dead if there was to happen a big timeskip. Meanwhile other relevant Azerothians like the leaders of the elf races (Malfurion/Lor'themar/Alleria/Thalyssra/Liadrin etc) or the Draenei like Velen would still be alive in the case of a long time skip for sure.

    Perhaps the choice of those brought to Shadowlands was deliberate. They want to keep their iconic characters while also wanting to renew Azeroth with a time skip. WoW still sells on names like Jaina/Thrall and they haven't managed to write proper characters that could replace the OGs of Warcraft. That way they can have their cake and eat it too.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    It would also have made our return to our own timeline grand and kind of heroic. After having gathered the races of "Old" Dreanor, we return as a "crusade" to save our own world after it has already been conquered.
    Cool idea really.

    That is also kind of what makes the idea of a timeskip in the world (with the players jumping forward in time), as the players could arrive in world, that is somewhat foreign and maybe unwelcome to us. Places that were once safe and secure could be dangerous, previous foes could become allies and friends could have turned side to become evil.
    I always loved the idea of the Light being evil and it taking over the world, so when we returned, what we thought was good, is now bad and the forces of somewhat evil are now our allies

    Could be fun

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think it can work quite well and know a number of stories who does them excellently.

    But there is also a reason for the timeskips, they are a reaction to story-starvation or dead end. Its insanely hard to write out of and sometimes, you just need a skip in time for things to change or for characters to improve. The most normal version of this, is the tranning montage, which is a form of timeskup, where our hero goes away from some time to improve.

    We just need that in WoW, a "story-tranning montage", so our characters/world can get its nesseary development for a new season of stories.
    Yeah, personally i had hoped for a timeskip to a "Black Empire" victory, where we would then slowly try to reconquer the world by making use of their own plots against eachother while we rebuild the alliance, horde and various other factions.
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    Timeskips are tricky in a fantasy setting with races that each have different lifespans. Most elves that are alive now will be alive in a 100 years as well. The same can't be said for humans, orcs etc.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That would only work for humans, orcs and a few other races. Elves and Draenei for example would virtually be unchanged.
    They wouldn't have to be. That's the point of doing a 20-40 year timeskip. Even the characters with "normal" lifespans don't die of old age, but it's still look enough for global politics to progress and for a new generation to be born.

    For example, Draenei and Elves may have a long lifespan, but I think they grow up at the same rate. So it would still be possible for a new Nelf or Draenai character to be born and grow up.

  18. #58
    The Lightbringer msdos's Avatar
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    It'd be nice if they just went back and made an M+ version of all dungeons. Then make Timewalking for all the raids. We should've had Timewalking Tomb of Sargeras by now, that raid was excellent. They have Chromie Time so there is no excuse anymore other than laziness and randomly allocating resources to borrowed powers.

    They won't unlock and open their massive game, they just keep piling crap on top, like you could swear they were trying to destroy their own game.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by EntertainmentNihilist View Post
    For example, Draenei and Elves may have a long lifespan, but I think they grow up at the same rate. So it would still be possible for a new Nelf or Draenai character to be born and grow up.
    Been some time since I read anything about it, but both elves and draenei do not mature that quick, at 40 years old they'd barely be considered teens.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ara Myrr View Post
    Been some time since I read anything about it, but both elves and draenei do not mature that quick, at 40 years old they'd barely be considered teens.
    That's incorrect. Both Elves and Draenei grow up and mature the same as humans.
    By the age of 19, Sylvanas was already a Ranger and had an adult body.

    Now how society considers them is another matter, but from what I understand they simply stop aging at around 20.

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