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  1. #101
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pum View Post
    I do not understand why so many people want higher ilevels just for the sake of it.

    If you are not doing Mythic raiding or at the high end of PvP ladders you literally have zero business having access or even having reasoning to have higher i level gear upwards of 220+. If you are not doing these activities why do you want it? Why do you need it? Hello? Higher ilevel is a means to an end, why has this been forgotten for expansions on end?

    I can't get my head round this mentality.
    Can't get your head around people enjoying character progression in an RPG?

    .... yeah.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Pum View Post
    I do not understand why so many people want higher ilevels just for the sake of it.

    If you are not doing Mythic raiding or at the high end of PvP ladders you literally have zero business having access or even having reasoning to have higher i level gear upwards of 220+. If you are not doing these activities why do you want it? Why do you need it? Hello? Higher ilevel is a means to an end, why has this been forgotten for expansions on end?

    I can't get my head round this mentality.
    Well why people WANT higher iLvl pieces is quite clear. It is the main driving point in the game. Higher iLvl means you do more HPS/DPS, you can take more Damage. Errors can be offset with a higher iLvl easier.
    But yes. The current iLvl progression is too... easy? It allready has no worth when you can get maxed out without even clearing any endgame content. 3 bosses in Mythic or one 15 Key and you are set. A few weeks later you are nearly maxed out.

    Some people want to make it even easier to come by, which i agree, i don't understand.
    No only will it destroy the main carrot on the stick of the game but it also will take the fun out of getting new gear. What is it really worth if everyone has it by rolling over once.

    Case and point the new tree mount. First day everywhere. Now i don't think i have seen one since two days after they gave it to us.
    If everyone has it you might as well get rid of it.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Pum View Post
    I do not understand why so many people want higher ilevels just for the sake of it.

    If you are not doing Mythic raiding or at the high end of PvP ladders you literally have zero business having access or even having reasoning to have higher i level gear upwards of 220+. If you are not doing these activities why do you want it? Why do you need it? Hello? Higher ilevel is a means to an end, why has this been forgotten for expansions on end?

    I can't get my head round this mentality.
    No idea the fact that ilvl scaleing still exist makes it even more not worth it imho.i don't think this way anymore the only reason for high ilvl would be if you p vs p in now which i rather do in a pvp based game instead.

  4. #104
    why do you give a fuck how somehow wants to play the game they pay to play? play the game how you want to and leave other people alone to play it how they choose to.

  5. #105
    You cant understand why people are striving for what is essentially the core basic mechanic of pretty much every RPG ever made?



    You understand why people level up at least though right?

  6. #106
    The only thing to do in this game is chase ilvl which is why it's so boring now

  7. #107
    It's my perspective people want something to do. Busywork, entertainment, a value for their sub, staying invested in their hobby, sharing moments of growth among those you have played with, or just a fair reward for the ffort they have put in... everyone's got a reason, not all of them are for power. The power itself could be meaningless, but it's the culmination of all these experiences that can give the acquisition, the reward, the win, worth it. The emotion of it is a valid reason as any in the game for wanting. That the power can potentially lead to future efforts of those you may not want to let down, that people tie so much of their worth or identity into this game is another. One can criticize aspects of this relationship insofar as it gives the person happiness, entertainment, connections, and these associated experiences - that's the value people ultimately pay for, and what they come to want, need, expect.

  8. #108
    Brewmaster Depakote's Avatar
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    Perhaps it's because people want to do said content but can't because try hards won't let them que to get high lvl gear because they don't already have it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by craigw View Post
    why do you give a fuck how somehow wants to play the game they pay to play? play the game how you want to and leave other people alone to play it how they choose to.
    That's just it though. You can no longer play the game how you want to play it. Other people have a say in how you play it or you don't really get to progress in anything.

  9. #109
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElDoorO View Post
    I understand what you're saying but at the end of the day, they could remove gear... and..people..would...still...play.

    To imply "because it's only been this way and thus it's the only way for it to exist" is fallacious.

    - - - Updated - - -



    To be fair, their struggle is different.

    WoW is lucky -- and every competent developer there has admitted that if WoW started today, it would not grow to what it is now. They simply got lucky on timing.
    So to presume they are doing things right as the only reason they are successful is fallacious.

    GW2 does a lot of things right. To infer they can't do anything right is foolish because WoW has copied a few aspects to GREAT success. If you don't know what those things are, then I suggest you explore a bit more in gaming to open up your experiences.

    My stance still stands: WoW could remove gear and people would still play.

    Look at arena's and BG's as an example. Case in point.

    When content isn't required, people...still...play..it. This is how it is for an insane amount of games. Metrics show people like fun. I know that's a difficult concept but people do. The overwhelming majority of people prefer even battles where gear doesn't matter. This makes wins more valuable and losses more understandable.

    But I do understand that most WoW players, and even commenters here, think that if WoW were to change even one little thing the house of cards would collapse. That's not true. They lost millions of subs in Cata and did fine. They lost a chunk in BfA. Still fine.

    People.Still.Play.

    Want to know something else that'll probably spin your head right on off: People farm legacy content for xmog! I know, ti's a crazy thing! They don't even get real gear or rewards for it! Just coolness stuffs!

    Case.In.Point.
    When legion basically removed gear from pvp in legion, pvp plummeted in participation. Shadowlands has gear rewards for pvp and now pvp has almost never seen this level of participation. Huh.. who would have thunk. People play parts of the game for gear. If they don't get gear from it they don't bother doing it.

  10. #110
    I do not understand why so many people want better cars just for the sake of it.

    If you are not doing any kind of racing or at the high end street race ladders you literally have zero business having access or even having reasoning to have better car upwards of 220+ horse power. If you are not doing these activities why do you want it? Why do you need it? Hello? Higher horse power is a means to an end, why has this been forgotten for expansions on end?

    I can't get my head round this mentality.



    --------------------------

    I do not understand why so many people want to eat better food just for the sake of it.

    If you are not doing any kind of tasting or at the high end food reviews you literally have zero business having access or even having reasoning to eat better food of upwards of $22+ per meal. If you are not doing these activities why do you want it? Why do you need it? Hello? Better food is a means to an end, why has this been forgotten for expansions on end?

    I can't get my head round this mentality.
    Last edited by kaminaris; 2021-04-09 at 05:17 AM.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion > ... > Eating Dust > .... > SL
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    Legendaries were such a great system I had them all before blizz lifted softcap

  11. #111
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElDoorO View Post

    To be fair, their struggle is different.

    WoW is lucky -- and every competent developer there has admitted that if WoW started today, it would not grow to what it is now. They simply got lucky on timing.
    So to presume they are doing things right as the only reason they are successful is fallacious.

    GW2 does a lot of things right. To infer they can't do anything right is foolish because WoW has copied a few aspects to GREAT success. If you don't know what those things are, then I suggest you explore a bit more in gaming to open up your experiences.

    My stance still stands: WoW could remove gear and people would still play.

    Look at arena's and BG's as an example. Case in point.

    When content isn't required, people...still...play..it. This is how it is for an insane amount of games. Metrics show people like fun. I know that's a difficult concept but people do. The overwhelming majority of people prefer even battles where gear doesn't matter. This makes wins more valuable and losses more understandable.

    But I do understand that most WoW players, and even commenters here, think that if WoW were to change even one little thing the house of cards would collapse. That's not true. They lost millions of subs in Cata and did fine. They lost a chunk in BfA. Still fine.

    People.Still.Play.

    Want to know something else that'll probably spin your head right on off: People farm legacy content for xmog! I know, ti's a crazy thing! They don't even get real gear or rewards for it! Just coolness stuffs!

    Case.In.Point
    .
    I don't know why you keep saying this as if it elevates your opinion. It doesn't. You're making a poor comparison between pvp gameplay and pve gameplay. The reasons people play pvp games is for the competition, for the skill versus skill gameplay. People generally don't pick up a game based on RPG ideals with the idea to "Get good" and stomp other folks.

    I also didn't imply that wow was doing "everything right", nor did I imply that Gw2 did everything wrong. I said that we have direct evidence from another MMORPG that this genre of themepark MMO does not do well when you remove the principle, driving reward structure. Even games in other genres don't upend their reward structures, likely because they believe it to be suicide. People seem to like incentives, and it's been stated time and again in other threads that removing gear/power from most content would kill it. Or do you think that mythic raiders (As an example) would suddenly flock to the raid portals to bash their head against bosses for transmog instead of tangible power?

    You said they could remove gear and still be okay. I disagree with that, and stated my reasons. You haven't cited any relevant examples to back up your assertion.

  12. #112
    For the same reason people quantify IRL success with metrics like wealth. For the same reason instagram influencers are obsessed with their follower counts. For the same reason people dedicate their lives to smashing world records. For the same reason bodybuilders want to be the swolest guy in the room. For the same reason students try for the highest GPA they can achieve. For the same reason people are obsessed over the lengths of their dicks or the size of their waists. It is human nature.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacewalrus2010 View Post
    Because I like bigger numbers? Killing things quicker in PvE and PvP?

    How is this not obvious?



    I don't know if you are being purposefully obtuse or not, but he said "power progression".

    Character power and player skill level are not the same thing.
    This is a multiplayer game. For a group's progression, skill matters as much as gear. Picking a 215 ilvl with 20% ilvl parses may be nerfing you more than picking a 200 with 99% ilvl parses

  14. #114
    Stood in the Fire RCA's Avatar
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    You can have the higher item level but if you don’t move or click fast enough (maybe at a larger margin than normal if we dive into it), can’t a lower item lvl character be the better choice? This thought process goes back to the earlier days of the game, where items never had that level denomination, so in general better gameplay shined more. Not cementing any idea or anything but I think this is where the post is coming from, hence their item lvl question.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I do not understand why so many people want better cars just for the sake of it.

    If you are not doing any kind of racing or at the high end street race ladders you literally have zero business having access or even having reasoning to have better car upwards of 220+ horse power. If you are not doing these activities why do you want it? Why do you need it? Hello? Higher horse power is a means to an end, why has this been forgotten for expansions on end?

    I can't get my head round this mentality.



    --------------------------

    I do not understand why so many people want to eat better food just for the sake of it.

    If you are not doing any kind of tasting or at the high end food reviews you literally have zero business having access or even having reasoning to eat better food of upwards of $22+ per meal. If you are not doing these activities why do you want it? Why do you need it? Hello? Better food is a means to an end, why has this been forgotten for expansions on end?

    I can't get my head round this mentality.
    Wait..are you insinuating that humans have...desires!?
    Surely that can't be true. We only care about efficiency, logic and executing tasks optimally.

  16. #116
    Makes dailies easier, and dailies are the core aspect of wow.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by kiramon View Post
    Because it’s the whole progression of the game; and things getting easier, regardless of what it is, due to your works feels good for people.

    As for the item levels themselves, it wouldn’t be as a big a deal if the scaling wasn’t so whack. A 25% dps increase is way too huge for 200 vs 215.
    its waaaaaay higher then 25%.

    this is something that a lot of people didnt realise because stremers didnt tell them that. the difference of performance between 200-210 is very huge - the difference of performance between 200 - 220 is enormous . even as simple stat as stamina means really a lot this expansion.

    like always blizzard has the "perception " problems because they aparently dont have even a single manager with decent psychological background that would explain them how human perception works.

    your average player percives +3 itlv upgrade as nothing - zero - nada - not worth pursuing. when in fact due to how gear scales this expansion its pretty decent upgrade if you get +3 overall itlvs.

    its also due to constant numbers nerfing . people dont see the diffrence because numbers are to small.

    its much easier to percive difference between someone doing 20k dps and 15k then between someone doing 2k and 1,5k dps - thats how our brains work . same with itlv . 15 itlv difference ? worth pursuing - 3 itlv difference - lol waste of time.

    if they didnt listened to people obsessed with small numbers then it would be much more visible .
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2021-04-09 at 06:41 AM.

  18. #118
    I agree. I have set my goal to heroic and mythic+ and i have achieved my goals. I can upgrade my gear to 220 and i have achieved my goals even before i could do it.
    I don't need anymore gear cause my guild decided to skip mythic raiding. There is no problem at all.

    If you ask me, greed. They want the reward without the effort. I don't see how that is fair.

    But, that is the PvE perspective. It is a problem when it comes to PvP. The solution is to scale everyone down to the same ilvl.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-04-09 at 06:48 AM.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by spanishninja View Post
    This is a multiplayer game. For a group's progression, skill matters as much as gear. Picking a 215 ilvl with 20% ilvl parses may be nerfing you more than picking a 200 with 99% ilvl parses
    depends on level of gameplay . for example regardless of how well 200 itlv player plays he will just keep getting 1 shot over and over in dungeons like +14 due to sheer lack of stamina.

    ye ye ye in perfect world he will interut/stun / avoid stuff - but thats not the reality of 99,9% of pugs

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by spanishninja View Post
    This is a multiplayer game. For a group's progression, skill matters as much as gear. Picking a 215 ilvl with 20% ilvl parses may be nerfing you more than picking a 200 with 99% ilvl parses
    What does this have to do with anything I said?

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