Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,697

    Shadowlands should've been the first Expansion?

    Base on the title I given to my post, it seems that many back stories related to the Shadowlands story arc have been delayed for more than a decade in favor for other plot/storyline and gave way to others.

    It seems Shadowlands is not completely an unexplored or unfamiliar place for Sylvanas. In fact, she should've been very familiar with it since Warcraft 3: TFT. After Frostmourne took her life, it seems the Ranger General of Silvermoon's rightful place in the afterlife would be in Bastion but it seems like she might end up in Maldraxus instead, worse, directly into the Maw thus meaning the Maw problem is not a new thing but have been a very big problem unseen by the living.

    After returning from the dead and becoming the Bashed Queen, she might have made contact with the Jailer if she ended up in the Maw since she would definitely be after Arthas and get even, possibly also learned secrets of the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne and applied whatever knowledge during her encounter with the new Lich King Bolvar in the Shadowlands cinematics and capturing Anduin to become the weapon.

    Also, she could've gained insight about retaining her own identity or memory and fight for her freedom from the influence of mindlessness and undeath when Arthas influences waned and weaken thus she was successful and capable of leading the Forsaken. After all a major theme regarding with Shadowlands is dealing with your past, either completely forgetting about it and move on with your new life, repurpose it to a new cause, or even deal with it as you wait for your time to go back to the mortal realm and be reborn/ressurected.

    What are your thoughts?
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2021-04-13 at 06:19 AM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post

    What are your thoughts?
    That I'm still trying to translate that. Give me a sec.

    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Base on the title it seems that many back stories have been delayed for more than a decade and gave way to others.

    It seems Shadowlands is not a an unexplored place for Sylvanas. After Frostmourne took her life, it seems as the Ranger General of Silvermoon should have went to Bastion or Maldraxxus [maybe if it wasn't for Arthas]. instead, worse, she went directly into the Maw [which happened due to her actions after being raised as a banshee, remember the "machine of death" wasn't broke yet] thus meaning the Maw problem is not a new thing, but has been a very big problem unseen by the living.

    After returning from the dead as The Banshee Queen, she made contact with the Jailer. If she ended up in the Maw, she would definitely still want further revenge on Arthas in the Shadowlands. Possibly that is when she learned the secrets of the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne and applied whatever knowledge during her encounter with the new Lich King Bolvar in the Shadowlands cinematic and capturing Anduin to become the weapon.

    What are your thoughts?
    So you're saying Sylvanas went to the Shadowlands more than twice, once in Edge of Night https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...nas-windrunner and once now? And that is how she gained further insight on beating the new Lich King, further powers, and possibly more interactions with Arthas's soul we haven't seen yet?

    Could be interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  3. #3
    Your title has nothing to do with the rest of your post, and that itself is wrong. No where is it stated she should have gone to Bastion or Maldraxxus, idk where you're getting that.
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
    Still here and still posting
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Alleria's whispers start climaxing

  4. #4
    Don't really get what you are getting at, but I would have thought that WotLK should have been the first expansion. It would have built directly upon Naxxramas as the final raid of vanilla, and we could after that go to BC as a natural escalation dealing with the person above the lich king.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,697
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    That I'm still trying to translate that. Give me a sec.



    So you're saying Sylvanas went to the Shadowlands more than twice, once in Edge of Night https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...nas-windrunner and once now? And that is how she gained further insight on beating the new Lich King, further powers, and possibly more interactions with Arthas's soul we haven't seen yet?

    Could be interesting.


    Yes. The first time she went was when Arthas stabbed her. Similar to what happened to the Bastion clip of Uther. I believe that was a flashback of his memory during WC3/TFT.

    1st death as a Ranger General = went to Shadowlands 1st time.
    2nd death with Edge of Night Novel = 2nd interaction with Shadowlands.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Yes. The first time she went was when Arthas stabbed her. Similar to what happened to the Bastion clip of Uther. I believe that was a flashback of his memory during WC3/TFT.

    1st death as a Ranger General = went to Shadowlands 1st time.
    2nd death with Edge of Night Novel = 2nd interaction with Shadowlands.
    While that would be interesting I do think that's directly conflicted by her warbringers cutscene. We see it entirely from her perspective. In her body, outside of her body, then coverted to a banshee.



    Unless you're actually insinuating she had a Bluther styled soul rip and Ranger-General Sylvanas is somewhere else.



    Which would be interesting, but again conflicts with the current story with Anduin trying to reach that inside Banshee Queen Sylvanas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)╭∩╮
    Posts
    3,391
    This post is all over the place.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Base on the title I given to my post, it seems that many back stories related to the Shadowlands story arc have been delayed for more than a decade in favor for other plot/storyline and gave way to others.
    No, it's the other way around.

    They thought up new random stuff that somehow connects to the old stories. Lore in wow is not exactly the best quality

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,697
    @Powerogue
    Anduin said she was always or have the power and in control to make her choice. Not unless the story is an out of body experience which transcends time and you peer into the past, present and the future from someone's PoV. In this case, Sylvanas. Yes, her warbringers story.

    What I mean is, she could've seen her future during her 1st death as ranger general and have taken all event which happened up to now as foresight and she becomes a banshee, thus she was able to break free, etc. It could be comparable to Velen having clairvoyance and visions of the future.

    Remember Anduin is a discipriest and this might be the actual event were he use the power of the dark side, one of which is death as in: shadow word: death.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2021-04-13 at 06:38 AM.

  10. #10
    Elemental Lord GreenJesus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    8,967
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Anduin said she was always or have the power and in control to make her choice. Not unless the story is an out of body experience which transcends time and you peer into the past, present and the future from someone's PoV. In this case, Sylvanas. Yes, her warbringers story.

    What I mean is she saw the future during her 1st death as ranger general and have taken all event which happened up to now as foresight and she becomes a banshee, thus she was able to break free, etc.

    Remember Anduin is a discipriest and this might be the actual event were he use the power of the dark side, one of which is death as in: shadow word: death.
    I'm getting vertigo trying to understand what the hell you are trying to say.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,697
    @GreenJesus

    Anduin said that Sylvanas was in power, that she still clings to her mortality, and even was in control. He asked why she was hesitant and needs to make the choice.

    The effect of time which is part of order has no power over death and the passage of is not applied similar to time effect on quantum realm.

    Time is non-linear thereby you can see and even experience the past, present and future as if they are visions when you're near death or dying which might've been the case for ranger-general Sylvanas when Arthas plunged Frostmourne in her. This would be her first travel to Shadowlands and in the several seconds or moment in the physical planes of Azeroth, in Shadowlands it might have been weeks, months or year already.

    When you are dead you confront yourself: past, present and future.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2021-04-15 at 03:23 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Anduin said that Sylvanas was in power, that she still clings to her mortality, and even was in control. He asked why she was hesitant and needs to make the choice.

    The effect of time which is part of order has no power over death and the passage of is not applied similar to time effect on quantum realm.

    Time is non-linear thereby you can see and even experience the past, present and future as if they are visions when you're near death or dying which might've been the case for ranger-general Sylvanas when Arthas plunged Frostmourne in her. This would be her first travel to Shadowlands and in the several seconds or moment in the physical planes of Azeroth, in Shadowlands it might have been weeks, months or year already.

    When you are dead you confront yourself: past, present and future.
    Why are you continuing to make stuff up?
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
    Still here and still posting
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Alleria's whispers start climaxing

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    They thought up new random stuff that somehow connects to the old stories.
    You don't actually think writers that have been writing stories for decades actually planned all of it, do you? Basically any successful property with a continuity will do this.

    Saying this is like saying, "Every 60 minutes, an hour passes." It's true, but it offers no insight when inspected past the shallowest of scrutiny.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Your title has nothing to do with the rest of your post, and that itself is wrong. No where is it stated she should have gone to Bastion or Maldraxxus, idk where you're getting that.
    The OP is pretty badly made, but she most certainly would have been in one of those places or even Ardenweald by what we've learned. Her going to the maw is utterly ridiculous. It's based on the initial idea that undead were damned, but then Shadowlands has pretty much retconned that which means she was in fact destined for one of those 3 more than likely.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    While that would be interesting I do think that's directly conflicted by her warbringers cutscene. We see it entirely from her perspective. In her body, outside of her body, then coverted to a banshee.


    Unless you're actually insinuating she had a Bluther styled soul rip and Ranger-General Sylvanas is somewhere else.


    Which would be interesting, but again conflicts with the current story with Anduin trying to reach that inside Banshee Queen Sylvanas.
    I mean the Uther thing is about the only plausible thing. Even if we consider after ICC there is no damn way she would have gone to the maw after the souls we've seen "redeemed" in Revendreth. The venthyr there have done FAR FAR worse things than even her post ICC self has done.

  15. #15
    Nope, but probably the fourth, after we defeated the Lich King. The armies of the dead invading Azeroth seems quite likely after nobody wears the crown anymore. But they thought that bringing back Deathwing and a world revamp would be cooler (and because old Azeroth needed a revamp back then, nowadays it wouldn't matter anymore)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    I mean the Uther thing is about the only plausible thing. Even if we consider after ICC there is no damn way she would have gone to the maw after the souls we've seen "redeemed" in Revendreth. The venthyr there have done FAR FAR worse things than even her post ICC self has done.
    And there you went wrong: lore based, the Dreadlord could have intervened and took her into the Maw; don't forget that Vahimatras was "Part" of the "Rebellion" of Undercity and before that he were with her for two whole expansions. And i doubt that she didn't know about the plans of Putirice; in fact she was probably the one who ordered it; but arthas didn't die; and maybe that wasn't even her target.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Nope, but probably the fourth, after we defeated the Lich King. The armies of the dead invading Azeroth seems quite likely after nobody wears the crown anymore. But they thought that bringing back Deathwing and a world revamp would be cooler (and because old Azeroth needed a revamp back then, nowadays it wouldn't matter anymore)

    - - - Updated - - -



    And there you went wrong: lore based, the Dreadlord could have intervened and took her into the Maw; don't forget that Vahimatras was "Part" of the "Rebellion" of Undercity and before that he were with her for two whole expansions. And i doubt that she didn't know about the plans of Putirice; in fact she was probably the one who ordered it; but arthas didn't die; and maybe that wasn't even her target.
    What dreadlord was ever present at any death? Also, you claim lorewise when there is no lore supporting that idea.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    The OP is pretty badly made, but she most certainly would have been in one of those places or even Ardenweald by what we've learned. Her going to the maw is utterly ridiculous. It's based on the initial idea that undead were damned, but then Shadowlands has pretty much retconned that which means she was in fact destined for one of those 3 more than likely.
    Out of infinite possible afterlives what makes you think she'd go to those three? If anything she'd go to Revendreth first then move on.
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
    Still here and still posting
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Alleria's whispers start climaxing

  18. #18
    Keyboard Turner utahrangerone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5
    When Arthas used Frostmourne on her immediately after killing her, her soul never got a chance to go to SL... it got corrupted into a banshee immediately.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by utahrangerone View Post
    When Arthas used Frostmourne on her immediately after killing her, her soul never got a chance to go to SL... it got corrupted into a banshee immediately.
    This is true as of the newest cinematic depicting the event, but I vaguely recall in an earlier story blizzard published involving it, there was a brief moment in between being stabbed and becoming a banshee that described sylvannas seeing the afterlife she was supposed to go to and then being ripped away from it as she was turned into a banshee and it being described as bright, warm and comforting.

    That said, blizzard has maintained that if anything depicted in game contradicts anything in writing, that the game version is the canon of the two and since we see the warbringers cinematic in game, bye bye peaceful afterlife.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by utahrangerone View Post
    When Arthas used Frostmourne on her immediately after killing her, her soul never got a chance to go to SL... it got corrupted into a banshee immediately.
    Cinematic for her and wc3 confirms this. She had never seen the shadowlands till she impaled herself on the spikes of icecrown citadel and was sent to the shadowlands.

    OT: she’s going to be pissed off if she ever finds out the jailer is responsible for her dying due to the minor influence he had on ner’zhul

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •