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  1. #301
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    367
    guild died back in february when we were done with heroic CN, left today since last time someone else then me were online was last saturday...

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    My only issue is that Cutting Edge doesn't really offer anything special. I think back to like ToGC where it had two Heroic exclusive mounts that both got removed from the game. Prestige just doesn't take you anywhere anymore, I have 16 total Cutting Edges and all they do is prove "I did that" and that doesn't matter in this game anymore, prestige doesn't matter to the vast majority of the playerbase, that's because parse culture has taken over and it doesn't matter if you've achieved every single Cutting Edge in the game, guilds won't take you if you're not parsing decently and your guild will keep your spot available for if they get an app from a better player of the same class. This isn't even the mindset of "just the top .1%" This goes all the way through most Mythic progression guilds. There's guilds in the top 2000 with these absurd expectations/standards and they're nowhere near pushing top world raiding. Prestige used to mean a lot in this game, same with mechanical prowess, but now people only look at your parses and they determine based on that if you're a good or bad player, when in reality parsing just means you didn't do mechanics, you didn't get bad RNG, you padded on adds, ect.
    You seem to be completely unable to separate what someone personally cares about and what the game around them cares about.

    You keep talking about how CE won't get you into guilds and complete ignore that people are not getting CE to get into guild but simply for their own personal accomplishment.
    If you 16 CE's and don't care about them because your not getting orange parses every raid that is a problem between you and your psychiatrist.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I think the only example that holds is MC on Blast furnace and frankly, Blast Furnace was a fine fight.

    The others are just incompetence on part of the encounter designers.
    ToS => Too many fights with soak mechanics and the insane amount of immunities required kill it
    G'uun => 2 Warlocks, okay, 4? Not so much.
    N'zoth => See ToS

    Having 1-2 Priests on Blast Furnace for the MC is one thing, but if you design a fight where 10+ Immunities are basically required to beat it pre nerf, that's just stupidity.
    How Mechanics that read "split among players" on very challenging encounter makes it past QA is beyond me.
    I like Blast Furnace, too. I think it's about as close to a perfectly designed raid encounter as Blizzard has ever gotten. But the reality is that a lot of players didn't like the two MC requirement because they either simply didn't have two Priests; or if they did, their Priests weren't mechanically strong enough to do the mechanic properly. (I'd know, I mained a SPriest this Tier. >_>) I agree that there are a lot of questionable mechanics that Blizzard lets through but I think the encounter design team is generally pretty cognizant of how players respond to certain mechanics and that's the only reason I can think that they've avoided these type of mechanics since.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    You seem to be completely unable to separate what someone personally cares about and what the game around them cares about.

    You keep talking about how CE won't get you into guilds and complete ignore that people are not getting CE to get into guild but simply for their own personal accomplishment.
    If you 16 CE's and don't care about them because your not getting orange parses every raid that is a problem between you and your psychiatrist.
    You keep making assumptions about me that are contradicting to what I've been saying, so I'm just going to block you and not worry about your trolling anymore
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    Wow's current subscribers vary insanely from patch to patch(much more so then it used to).
    This is probably the reality of it. Just such wild swings on a patch-to-patch basis that so many guilds are going to get killed they can never become "established" enough to maintain consistency.

  6. #306
    The problem here is not the amount of player but the broken gearing system, where a few weeks into mythic nathria everyone was expected to have better gear then that, that was available from bosses you are progressing. Back in the days you needed to raid and kill bosses to get that gear that you now are expected to have before you ever set a foot into that raid. M+ is a good replayable content but ulimately leads to this mess you have now. Bring back challenge modes from mists and get rid of that gear fiesta and only will you have a healthy raiding playerbase.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Guilford View Post
    10man>>>>>>>>20man
    Why stop there? If you're making that argument, can't you just skip all the way down to 5 man, 3 man, 1 man? 10 seems like an oddly arbitrary number.

    The fact is, that at any group size, you're going to have these types of struggles. Destiny has 6 man raids. We have like 10 players in our squad and we STILL struggle to put together a regular raid roster, even with planned nights and such. We also always beat it in the first week. We've come close to first day clears. We're all competent, etc. The fact is that social gathering and scheduling is a pain and it should stay that way. That's what it means to be committed.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I agree that there are a lot of questionable mechanics that Blizzard lets through but I think the encounter design team is generally pretty cognizant of how players respond to certain mechanics and that's the only reason I can think that they've avoided these type of mechanics since.
    Can only agree to some extent.

    I cannot fathom how something such as N'zoth still happens, especially when they also then provide reasons like "it supports the identity of classes with immunities" (or something like that).
    Immunities are one of the strongest abilities in the game, they can be abused on almost any encounter, they don't need *additional* mechanics that favor them, pretty much every encounter already has a plethora of situations where Immunities save for fucking skin, no need for mechanics that basically are "You have an immunity or you're fucked", especially on the most difficult encounters of a tier where switching on alt or getting benched is even more painful.

    I've been raiding hardcore as Shaman for over a decade and this whole immunity business has felt like a bad prank on Blizzards end, you feel so fucking left out the moment you realize that yet again that an immunity is OP on a fight and necessary on almost every raidmember.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Why stop there? If you're making that argument, can't you just skip all the way down to 5 man, 3 man, 1 man? 10 seems like an oddly arbitrary number.

    The fact is, that at any group size, you're going to have these types of struggles. Destiny has 6 man raids. We have like 10 players in our squad and we STILL struggle to put together a regular raid roster, even with planned nights and such. We also always beat it in the first week. We've come close to first day clears. We're all competent, etc. The fact is that social gathering and scheduling is a pain and it should stay that way. That's what it means to be committed.
    By Blizzard's definition; anything larger than a 5 man is considered to be a "raid" anything else is just personal opinion. Now I think anything lower than 10 man is just asking for trouble, but 10 man was a sweet spot for me personally. Maybe it's nostalgia, or maybe it's because I could raid comfortably every week and replacing people wasn't such a difficult task, plus the content was in my opinion very challenging at the time. I would love to keep an open mind and see what Blizzard could do with 10m current content, but I am not a developer, and most of these people commenting aren't either, so our opinions don't really matter lol.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    this whole immunity business has felt like a bad prank on Blizzards end, you feel so fucking left out the moment you realize that yet again that an immunity is OP on a fight and necessary on almost every raidmember.
    Agree completely.

    "Super important XYZ in 10 seconds, in 5....execute"

    "Super important XYZ in 10 seconds, immunities, cheese it."
    "Aren't you worried?"
    "Would it help?"

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post


    Its obvious you have no idea what your talking about, gear is the easiest thing to get in WoW with a little effort, players dont care about what gear your wearing they prefer experience, most of the items in the raid are not even an upgrade.


    Wrong, very wrong. You sounds like one of those AOTC herpderpz.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    You have multiple people that you're wrong. The gear is the ONLY thing that matters, especially in tiers that don't have a mount. Gear makes everything easier, it enables you to parse(which is a driven culture in this game). Not one guild that's 10/10M will take you just because you've cleared the raid, you need decent parses, and to get decent parses you need GEAR. I know this might seem like rocket science to you, but clearing the content is not a reward.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Read above, Cutting Edge means nothing. If you can't parse you're not going to get into a new 10/10M guild if your guild decides to replace you for being trash.
    Gear is not the only thing that matters, if you think that you whole perception is wrong, gear is way too easy to get, parses are also highly subjective with many 10/10 mythic guild players still only putting out blue/green/grey logs so logs dont mean your a good player, they mean you have been able to cheese the encounter or fed buffs to get a decent log.

    You get showered with gear you dont even need so saying its the only thing that matters means your a complete idiot and have no actual understanding of the game, gear is just a means to an end, the end is clearing the content, its nice to have all your upgrades and getting decent logs but neither are the endgame.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShaanuJaanu View Post
    Wrong, very wrong. You sounds like one of those AOTC herpderpz.
    Enlighten me what am i wrong about, what is better to have acheivements while they are current and earnt the proper way or a few bits of gear to bump up your ilvl 3-4 points.

    Earning the acheivements are the only real reward WoW offers, mounts, titles, gear is not the reward its just a tool to obtain the real rewards.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2021-04-13 at 11:31 PM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Enlighten me what am i wrong about, what is better to have acheivements while they are current and earnt the proper way or a few bits of gear to bump up your ilvl 3-4 points.
    Gear is what drives people to log on day in and day out, not achievements. If achievements were the thing (mind you the achievements you mentioned are guild only not personal, so when u leave the guild they are gone), there would be 0 player retention, everyone would unsub after getting the achievement untill next tier (including me). Part of the fun is getting gear, smashing bosses, getitng better parses, etc..

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by ShaanuJaanu View Post
    Gear is what drives people to log on day in and day out, not achievements. If achievements were the thing (mind you the achievements you mentioned are guild only not personal, so when u leave the guild they are gone), there would be 0 player retention, everyone would unsub after getting the achievement untill next tier (including me). Part of the fun is getting gear, smashing bosses, getitng better parses, etc..
    Gear is easy to get, what would be the point in playing once you have all the gear then, if you get all the gear you are able to obtain from the content you do why play anymore then, players enjoy the content regardless of needing gear or not, you can also do sell runs and make millions, at the end of the day parses dont mean all that much but its good to attempt to get better logs.

    Ive been full BiS many expansions and still continued to raid and clear content without the need of any upgrades, gear is not the end goal.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Gear is not the only thing that matters, if you think that you whole perception is wrong, gear is way too easy to get, parses are also highly subjective with many 10/10 mythic guild players still only putting out blue/green/grey logs so logs dont mean your a good player, they mean you have been able to cheese the encounter or fed buffs to get a decent log.

    You get showered with gear you dont even need so saying its the only thing that matters means your a complete idiot and have no actual understanding of the game, gear is just a means to an end, the end is clearing the content, its nice to have all your upgrades and getting decent logs but neither are the endgame.



    Enlighten me what am i wrong about, what is better to have acheivements while they are current and earnt the proper way or a few bits of gear to bump up your ilvl 3-4 points.

    Earning the acheivements are the only real reward WoW offers, mounts, titles, gear is not the reward its just a tool to obtain the real rewards.

    You've been wrong this entire thread, I'm done feeding your trolling. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about because gear is literally the only reason players continue to raid. If gear wasn't in the raids, nobody would do them, period.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Gear is easy to get, what would be the point in playing once you have all the gear then, if you get all the gear you are able to obtain from the content you do why play anymore then, players enjoy the content regardless of needing gear or not, you can also do sell runs and make millions, at the end of the day parses dont mean all that much but its good to attempt to get better logs.

    Ive been full BiS many expansions and still continued to raid and clear content without the need of any upgrades, gear is not the end goal.
    try coming up with a different argument perhaps? you keep reiterating the same garbage that was wrong in the first place over and over and over.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyCowBro View Post
    I don't know what the solution could be, but recruiting 20+ people for core and bench is starting to look like an impossible task at this very moment. I would even speculate it's easier to recruit 40 people in classic than it is to recruit 20 people for mythic in retail at the moment, and that's quite ridiculous.

    My solution proposal would be obvious, reduce the number of people required for mythic content. 15? 10? again, this is the only thing I can really think of, as making mythic content scale-like LFR, normal, and heroic does would just be a balancing nightmare.

    We are on a "full" pop server, US Thrall with plenty of people. The problem is related to not enough talent being out there to fill the roles. Is the content too difficult for the average player? is Raider.IO part of the problem? again, I don't know what the solution could possibly be, but there's definitely something going on with recruitment that is making it really hard to make a consistent roster.
    Recruitment this expansion is also extra tedious because of all the raid buffs. You absolutely need specific classes for your raid and it's really bad if you cannot find them.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post



    10 man raids is not raiding, its just a dumbed down version for players who are not good enough for the larger raids.
    Its a harder version of what we deal with now.

    You think current raiding is "hard", it is only that way because of WA's....

    If you could take all addons out, maybe other than a count down timer, 10 man is the pinnacle of raiding. And Max from Limit agrees, and he's the leader of the greatest guild on Earth.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Its a harder version of what we deal with now.

    You think current raiding is "hard", it is only that way because of WA's....

    If you could take all addons out, maybe other than a count down timer, 10 man is the pinnacle of raiding. And Max from Limit agrees, and he's the leader of the greatest guild on Earth.
    What the fuck? Max has plenty of shitty takes. He recently got in trouble for indirectly flaming Ellesmere's M+ team resulting in Ellesmere having a literal meltdown on Twitter. Instead of just admitting that he worded his initial statement a bit clumsily, he doubled down and said that he was "taken out of context" and "didn't mean to name drop Ellesmere" because he "was just reading Twitch chat" and "didn't know who he was." Dude streams 10 fucking hours a day and can't even admit he fucked up with his stream of consciousness verbal diarrhea. I like the guy but to get on this forum and proclaim he's the WoW Jesus because he runs a decent guild is a bit of a stretch.

    edit: Unless you're being sarcastic here -- hard to tell on the internet.
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2021-04-14 at 04:09 PM.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.



    People have talked about this "critical point" since before Mythic raiding at 20M was even a thing. There are decade-old threads full of people making the same fucking arguments you see in this thread. My position then is the same as it is now: The current system isn't broken and doesn't need to be fixed. There could be more tools for guild recruitment built into the game but this isn't a problem with the current raid paradigm.
    It's not broken "For you" and doesn't need to be fixed "For you".

    Those thousands of heroic clearing guilds unable to break into mythic because of roster issues? Not so much.

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