20 man mythic recruitment killing my guild...what about you?

[ShaanuJaanu]

Its obvious you have no idea what your talking about, gear is the easiest thing to get in WoW with a little effort, players dont care about what gear your wearing they prefer experience, most of the items in the raid are not even an upgrade.

Wrong, very wrong. You sounds like one of those AOTC herpderpz.

[kenn9530]

You have multiple people that you're wrong. The gear is the ONLY thing that matters, especially in tiers that don't have a mount. Gear makes everything easier, it enables you to parse(which is a driven culture in this game). Not one guild that's 10/10M will take you just because you've cleared the raid, you need decent parses, and to get decent parses you need GEAR. I know this might seem like rocket science to you, but clearing the content is not a reward.

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Read above, Cutting Edge means nothing. If you can't parse you're not going to get into a new 10/10M guild if your guild decides to replace you for being trash.

Gear is not the only thing that matters, if you think that you whole perception is wrong, gear is way too easy to get, parses are also highly subjective with many 10/10 mythic guild players still only putting out blue/green/grey logs so logs dont mean your a good player, they mean you have been able to cheese the encounter or fed buffs to get a decent log.

You get showered with gear you dont even need so saying its the only thing that matters means your a complete idiot and have no actual understanding of the game, gear is just a means to an end, the end is clearing the content, its nice to have all your upgrades and getting decent logs but neither are the endgame.

Wrong, very wrong. You sounds like one of those AOTC herpderpz.

Enlighten me what am i wrong about, what is better to have acheivements while they are current and earnt the proper way or a few bits of gear to bump up your ilvl 3-4 points.

Earning the acheivements are the only real reward WoW offers, mounts, titles, gear is not the reward its just a tool to obtain the real rewards.

[ShaanuJaanu]

Enlighten me what am i wrong about, what is better to have acheivements while they are current and earnt the proper way or a few bits of gear to bump up your ilvl 3-4 points.

Gear is what drives people to log on day in and day out, not achievements. If achievements were the thing (mind you the achievements you mentioned are guild only not personal, so when u leave the guild they are gone), there would be 0 player retention, everyone would unsub after getting the achievement untill next tier (including me). Part of the fun is getting gear, smashing bosses, getitng better parses, etc..

[kenn9530]

Gear is what drives people to log on day in and day out, not achievements. If achievements were the thing (mind you the achievements you mentioned are guild only not personal, so when u leave the guild they are gone), there would be 0 player retention, everyone would unsub after getting the achievement untill next tier (including me). Part of the fun is getting gear, smashing bosses, getitng better parses, etc..

Gear is easy to get, what would be the point in playing once you have all the gear then, if you get all the gear you are able to obtain from the content you do why play anymore then, players enjoy the content regardless of needing gear or not, you can also do sell runs and make millions, at the end of the day parses dont mean all that much but its good to attempt to get better logs.

Ive been full BiS many expansions and still continued to raid and clear content without the need of any upgrades, gear is not the end goal.

[Zyky]

Gear is not the only thing that matters, if you think that you whole perception is wrong, gear is way too easy to get, parses are also highly subjective with many 10/10 mythic guild players still only putting out blue/green/grey logs so logs dont mean your a good player, they mean you have been able to cheese the encounter or fed buffs to get a decent log.

You get showered with gear you dont even need so saying its the only thing that matters means your a complete idiot and have no actual understanding of the game, gear is just a means to an end, the end is clearing the content, its nice to have all your upgrades and getting decent logs but neither are the endgame.



Enlighten me what am i wrong about, what is better to have acheivements while they are current and earnt the proper way or a few bits of gear to bump up your ilvl 3-4 points.

Earning the acheivements are the only real reward WoW offers, mounts, titles, gear is not the reward its just a tool to obtain the real rewards.

You've been wrong this entire thread, I'm done feeding your trolling. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about because gear is literally the only reason players continue to raid. If gear wasn't in the raids, nobody would do them, period.

[ShaanuJaanu]

Gear is easy to get, what would be the point in playing once you have all the gear then, if you get all the gear you are able to obtain from the content you do why play anymore then, players enjoy the content regardless of needing gear or not, you can also do sell runs and make millions, at the end of the day parses dont mean all that much but its good to attempt to get better logs.

Ive been full BiS many expansions and still continued to raid and clear content without the need of any upgrades, gear is not the end goal.

try coming up with a different argument perhaps? you keep reiterating the same garbage that was wrong in the first place over and over and over.

[Kaver]

I don't know what the solution could be, but recruiting 20+ people for core and bench is starting to look like an impossible task at this very moment. I would even speculate it's easier to recruit 40 people in classic than it is to recruit 20 people for mythic in retail at the moment, and that's quite ridiculous.

My solution proposal would be obvious, reduce the number of people required for mythic content. 15? 10? again, this is the only thing I can really think of, as making mythic content scale-like LFR, normal, and heroic does would just be a balancing nightmare.

We are on a "full" pop server, US Thrall with plenty of people. The problem is related to not enough talent being out there to fill the roles. Is the content too difficult for the average player? is Raider.IO part of the problem? again, I don't know what the solution could possibly be, but there's definitely something going on with recruitment that is making it really hard to make a consistent roster.

Recruitment this expansion is also extra tedious because of all the raid buffs. You absolutely need specific classes for your raid and it's really bad if you cannot find them.

[Stormbreed]

10 man raids is not raiding, its just a dumbed down version for players who are not good enough for the larger raids.

Its a harder version of what we deal with now.

You think current raiding is "hard", it is only that way because of WA's....

If you could take all addons out, maybe other than a count down timer, 10 man is the pinnacle of raiding. And Max from Limit agrees, and he's the leader of the greatest guild on Earth.

[Relapses]

Its a harder version of what we deal with now.

You think current raiding is "hard", it is only that way because of WA's....

If you could take all addons out, maybe other than a count down timer, 10 man is the pinnacle of raiding. And Max from Limit agrees, and he's the leader of the greatest guild on Earth.

What the fuck? Max has plenty of shitty takes. He recently got in trouble for indirectly flaming Ellesmere's M+ team resulting in Ellesmere having a literal meltdown on Twitter. Instead of just admitting that he worded his initial statement a bit clumsily, he doubled down and said that he was "taken out of context" and "didn't mean to name drop Ellesmere" because he "was just reading Twitch chat" and "didn't know who he was." Dude streams 10 fucking hours a day and can't even admit he fucked up with his stream of consciousness verbal diarrhea. I like the guy but to get on this forum and proclaim he's the WoW Jesus because he runs a decent guild is a bit of a stretch.

edit: Unless you're being sarcastic here -- hard to tell on the internet.

[Hinastorm]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.



People have talked about this "critical point" since before Mythic raiding at 20M was even a thing. There are decade-old threads full of people making the same fucking arguments you see in this thread. My position then is the same as it is now: The current system isn't broken and doesn't need to be fixed. There could be more tools for guild recruitment built into the game but this isn't a problem with the current raid paradigm.

It's not broken "For you" and doesn't need to be fixed "For you".

Those thousands of heroic clearing guilds unable to break into mythic because of roster issues? Not so much.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I miss 10-man Heroic raiding.

[Relapses]

It's not broken "For you" and doesn't need to be fixed "For you".

Those thousands of heroic clearing guilds unable to break into mythic because of roster issues? Not so much.

It's not a new struggle as many players in this thread like to insinuate. Players complained about recruiting for 20M Mythic in MoP. Reason given? "Game's dying." Players complained about recruiting for 20M Mythic in WoD. Reason given? "Game's dying." Players complained about recruiting for 20M Mythic in Legion. Reason given? "Game's dying." Players complained about recruiting for 20M Mythic in BfA. Reason given? "Game's dying." And now, for some reason, players are complaining about recruiting for 20M Mythic in Shadowlands but this time, for real, the game's actually dying so Blizzard absolutely must act on it this time. I just don't buy it.

[Beuargh]

Make mythic raiding actually rewarding. No, cutting edge and some gear you will replace within 2 days of the next tier is not interesting and hasn't been for some time now imo.

I agree mythic raiding is not rewarding, at least not enough for me to even try and fail... but if it's not gear, mount or achievements, what would be rewarding ? real money?

[Hinastorm]

It's not a new struggle as many players in this thread like to insinuate. Players complained about recruiting for 20M Mythic in MoP. Reason given? "Game's dying." Players complained about recruiting for 20M Mythic in WoD. Reason given? "Game's dying." Players complained about recruiting for 20M Mythic in Legion. Reason given? "Game's dying." Players complained about recruiting for 20M Mythic in BfA. Reason given? "Game's dying." And now, for some reason, players are complaining about recruiting for 20M Mythic in Shadowlands but this time, for real, the game's actually dying so Blizzard absolutely must act on it this time. I just don't buy it.

I mean, we know for a fact that a large portion of the playerbase has quit playing since shadowlands dropped. Which lines up pretty much exactly with when heroic guilds would want to recruit for mythic.

I'm not saying the games dying, but denying that there are less players around to recruit is denying reality.

[Relapses]

I agree mythic raiding is not rewarding, at least not enough for me to even try and fail... but if it's not gear, mount or achievements, what would be rewarding ? real money?

A personalized meeting with Ion Hazzikostas where you try to convince him to add 10M Heroic back to the game while he hurls lawyer speak back at you.

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I mean, we know for a fact that a large portion of the playerbase has quit playing since shadowlands dropped. Which lines up pretty much exactly with when heroic guilds would want to recruit for mythic.

I'm not saying the games dying, but denying that there are less players around to recruit is denying reality.

When did I deny that there are less players? That's not my argument. Every expansion post-WoD has had constriction in subscribers after launch yet somehow Mythic raiding continues to persist expansion after expansion. There doesn't seem to be anything particularly special about the drop off in Shadowlands when compared to every other expansion so why is it suddenly imperative for Blizzard to act now?

[Hinastorm]

A personalized meeting with Ion Hazzikostas where you try to convince him to add 10M Heroic back to the game while he hurls lawyer speak back at you.

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When did I deny that there are less players? That's not my argument. Every expansion post-WoD has had constriction in subscribers after launch yet somehow Mythic raiding continues to persist expansion after expansion. There doesn't seem to be anything particularly special about the drop off in Shadowlands when compared to every other expansion so why is it suddenly imperative for Blizzard to act now?

I'll admit i'm not perfectly up to date with how many guilds are regularly active in mythic, but as someone else said, surely at some point the dev time won't be worth it if too many guilds are boxed out because of recruitment problems.

[Relapses]

I'll admit i'm not perfectly up to date with how many guilds are regularly active in mythic, but as someone else said, surely at some point the dev time won't be worth it if too many guilds are boxed out because of recruitment problems.

I posted an observation on page 5 of this thread.

That's comparing 5 months of CN to 10+ months of Ny'alotha. If anything, it appears guild participation in raiding is increasing (not decreasing) so if that fabled breakpoint exists we're nowhere near reaching it.

[Hinastorm]

I posted an observation on page 5 of this thread.

That's comparing 5 months of CN to 10+ months of Ny'alotha. If anything, it appears guild participation in raiding is increasing (not decreasing) so if that fabled breakpoint exists we're nowhere near reaching it.

A far better comparison would be to look at the first raids from 2 dif expansions.

[TbouncerT]

10man>>>>>>>>20man

More personal responsibility, more emphasis on actual gameplay and less on garbage logistics.

Yeah man, my favorite raiding with when we had 10m raiding. It felt like the pinnacle of raiding for my group. Also felt a tad harder do to the fact that with less people came more responsibility (like you said) and less room for error when compared to 25m (or 20/30m now).

With raiding now, my group flexes between 17-26 people (we only do Normal but mainly Heroic). I sure do miss those days of 10m, since you can also get more personal with 9 other people and really get to know how they play VS the bigger group. Just managing a smaller group was a lot better and more fun.

[Relapses]

A far better comparison would be to look at the first raids from 2 dif expansions.

That's not really accurate because guilds will often go back to clear old tier content throughout the life of an expansion. You'd essentially be comparing 5 months of CN to the nearly 2 years that any guild could have killed a boss in Uldir.